Which Two Canadian Metros Are Really In Sync With Each Other

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

I'm not a NHL fan either but Canada is primarily a NHL hockey sports nation (except for Saskatchewan where CFL & NFL football are more popular) so it's inevitable that in a province like Ontario that's huge on NHL hockey that you will hear about teams like Jets and particularly the Oilers in playoffs this time of year whether you follow hockey or not, its part of 'Canadian Culture' and therefore more likely to hear about NHL cities than non-NHL cities..

True, but knowing a name doesn't mean you know anything about it. For instance plenty of people have probably heard of the 'Green Bay Packers' but don't know where that is. (I think either Wisonsin or Florida, but I'm not certain...)

And people mentioned Sudbury, which lacks any sports team.

People really want to act like Hamilton is more obscure than it is.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Beedok

And people mentioned Sudbury, which lacks any sports team.

Sudbury Wolves (OHL team)

[jigglysquishy]

I'm not sure how you could make the argument that football is more popular than hockey in Saskatchewan. Hockey easily is twice as popular.

Saskatchewan likes the Riders, but loves hockey.

[SaskScraper]

Originally Posted by Beedok

True, but knowing a name doesn't mean you know anything about it. For instance plenty of people have probably heard of the 'Green Bay Packers' but don't know where that is. (I think either Wisonsin or Florida, but I'm not certain...)

And people mentioned Sudbury, which lacks any sports team.

People really want to act like Hamilton is more obscure than it is.

I don't think it's anything against Hamilton that the city isn't discussed much by Canadians outside of Ontario, again if one could easily fly to the city of Hamilton itself it would increase it's exposure.

NFL is a little more obscure (in Canada outside of Saskatchewan) and NHL is by far the major pro league (in Canada outside of Saskatchewan) so its more likely NHL teams are discussed more by Canadians rather than NFL teams, except for in Saskatchewan it's more of an even split between NHL and NFL.


AngusReid

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

You probably didn't get the memo, but as Acajack said, not 100% of foreign speakers speak English in Canada which you seemed to think you could just lump together with English speakers.. first rule of accounting is don't lump together numbers that don't belong together

What are we trying to prove here again?

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Acajack

What are we trying to prove here again?

That the internet is a wonderful place to argue details and semantics and miss the overall point.

Or so I thought.

[ue]

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

Hamilton only has about a couple things people in Saskatchewan know about, It's a rust belt city and it has a football team. I'm more familiar with it being 'Waterfall city' and McMaster U etc just because I have a couple friends there.
I think Hamilton would have way more of a reputation if it had even a marginal sized airport and people actually flew to Hamilton instead of falling into Black hole of Pearson.

Hamilton has literally the smallest airport I have ever been to, only 5 flights the entire day!!..


I took these pics a couple weeks ago on a cold snowy day while I was flying out.





Ontario has <47% of Canada's English speaking population fyi

I think people know about Hamilton out here in general, but it has a very low profile. Like I don't think most people know anything beyond the Tiger Cats and it being in Ontario, some even mistakenly think it's a suburb of Toronto. I wouldn't be surprised if the average Albertan thought it wasn't all that big; you hear more about Halifax or St. John's than you do Hamilton out here. Hell, for some reason, Kitchener has a higher profile out here; it's probably the most known Ontario city after Toronto, Ottawa, and Niagara Falls.

A lot of people seem to have heard of McMaster, but even those that know it's technically in Hamilton just sorta see the whole of Southern Ontario as one amorphous blob. Most people aren't as geographically-literate as we are, and so it can be hard to understand the relations and dynamics with different parts of Southern Ontario. To most, it's all "Toronto". Only Ottawa is really seen as something else.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

By "extensions of Ontario" I didn't mean "freshly colonized by Ontarians" at all... just meant that these areas are similar to Ontario in every way, and are likely to be well connected to it.

.

I can't remember all the places you mentioned, but from those I recall I wouldn't describe Aylmer, Buckingham or the West Island as "similar to Ontario in every way". Not even close.

The only place in Quebec that would fit that description reasonably closely would be Shawville and a few surrounding towns in the Pontiac.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I can't remember all the places you mentioned, but from those I recall I wouldn't describe Aylmer, Buckingham or the West Island as "similar to Ontario in every way". Not even close.

The only place in Quebec that would fit that description reasonably closely would be Shawville and a few surrounding towns in the Pontiac.

The people in Shawville and those nearby places go to Pembroke and Petawawa for shopping and services and are strongly connected to Ontario and are pretty much similar to most people on the Ontario side of the Ottawa River. But they pay taxes to Quebec City, have a CLSC they go to for health care, they are Hydro-Quebec customers, have Quebec drivers licences and vehicle plates, Quebec education system etc..

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Loco101

The people in Shawville and those nearby places go to Pembroke and Petawawa for shopping and services and are strongly connected to Ontario and are pretty much similar to most people on the Ontario side of the Ottawa River. But they pay taxes to Quebec City, have a CLSC they go to for health care, they are Hydro-Quebec customers, have Quebec drivers licences and vehicle plates, Quebec education system etc..

All true but this is all administrative.

Yes, the administrative aspect does have some cultural impacts: the drinking age is 18, alcohol is more freely available, and a bunch of public services operate mainly in French (police, hospital, etc.) in spite of the fact that the region is mainly anglophone. So yeah this makes it different from Ontario, but still it's as close as you're gonna get to the "feel" of Ontario within the borders of Quebec.

Just as Hawkesbury feels pretty darn similar to Quebec (moreso than Hearst BTW) for a place that's in Ontario.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

All true but this is all administrative.

Yes, the administrative aspect does have some cultural impacts: the drinking age is 18, alcohol is more freely available, and a bunch of public services operate mainly in French (police, hospital, etc.) in spite of the fact that the region is mainly anglophone. So yeah this makes it different from Ontario, but still it's as close as you're gonna get to the "feel" of Ontario within the borders of Quebec.

Just as Hawkesbury feels pretty darn similar to Quebec (moreso than Hearst BTW) for a place that's in Ontario.

I do agree that Shawville and some of the surrounding area is as close as you will get to what feels like Ontario within Quebec.

Hawkesbury certainly does feel much like Quebec for it being in Ontario. It's about 85% francophone I think and you hear most people speaking French and even some of the houses, buildings and streets look more like what you'd see in a Southern Quebec town. And of course it's right on the border with Quebec. But even then, I felt that English is the dominant business language there just because it's Ontario and maybe also because the town serves many nearby towns that are anglophone dominated. There are quite a few businesses there that have only English on outside signs.

Hearst used to have the nickname "le petit Québec" but I haven't heard that in awhile. Hearst is over 90% francophone and located very far from Quebec. It's about a 4 hour drive to get to the Quebec border! The town certainly does have a Quebec feeling to it and maybe comparable to a Northern Quebec town such as La Sarre. It also has a strong Northern Ontario feeling to it of course. There's a lot of bilingual commercial signs but a number that are English-only. I guess it really depends on who owns the business. All government and institutional buildings have bilingual signage. I did notice that independent restaurant menus in Hearst are very much like what you'd see on menus in Quebec. I have a number of friends from there am told that most people still watch Quebec TV channels unlike most francophones in Timmins.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I do agree that Shawville and some of the surrounding area is as close as you will get to what feels like Ontario within Quebec.

Hawkesbury certainly does feel much like Quebec for it being in Ontario. It's about 85% francophone I think and you hear most people speaking French and even some of the houses, buildings and streets look more like what you'd see in a Southern Quebec town. And of course it's right on the border with Quebec. But even then, I felt that English is the dominant business language there just because it's Ontario and maybe also because the town serves many nearby towns that are anglophone dominated. There are quite a few businesses there that have only English on outside signs.

Hearst used to have the nickname "le petit Québec" but I haven't heard that in awhile. Hearst is over 90% francophone and located very far from Quebec. It's about a 4 hour drive to get to the Quebec border! The town certainly does have a Quebec feeling to it and maybe comparable to a Northern Quebec town such as La Sarre. It also has a strong Northern Ontario feeling to it of course. There's a lot of bilingual commercial signs but a number that are English-only. I guess it really depends on who owns the business. All government and institutional buildings have bilingual signage. I did notice that independent restaurant menus in Hearst are very much like what you'd see on menus in Quebec. I have a number of friends from there am told that most people still watch Quebec TV channels unlike most francophones in Timmins.

Francophones in northern Ontario IMO tend to be less assertive and more timid than those in Prescott-Russell in the southeast. Hearst is the most assertively francophone town of decent size I've been to in NE Ontario. (And I've been to most of them.) The only one that was comparable was Sturgeon Falls between Sudbury and North Bay. Most of the signs were in English only (as many of them surprisingly were in Hearst too) but people were yakking away loudly and uninhibitedly in French in restaurants and corner stores in both towns, and even occasionally addressing strangers in French. You don't see this much in Timmins, Sudbury or even Kapuskasing.

Hawkesbury is even more uninhibitedly francophone than Hearst or Sturgeon. Of course, that's not surprising given where it's located. Casselman, though quite a bit smaller, is also like this. Embrun and Rockland are fairly large towns but less and less like this with every passing day.

[FFX-ME]

Hearst is the most francophone community in all Ontario.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

Hearst is the most francophone community in all Ontario.

Statistically yes, but I'd still wager on TVA Nouvelles or RDS (as opposed to CTV News Net or TSN) more likely being on the TV screen of a restaurant in Hawkesbury than in Hearst.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Francophones in northern Ontario IMO tend to be less assertive and more timid than those in Prescott-Russell in the southeast. Hearst is the most assertively francophone town of decent size I've been to in NE Ontario. (And I've been to most of them.) The only one that was comparable was Sturgeon Falls between Sudbury and North Bay. Most of the signs were in English only (as many of them surprisingly were in Hearst too) but people were yakking away loudly and uninhibitedly in French in restaurants and corner stores in both towns, and even occasionally addressing strangers in French. You don't see this much in Timmins, Sudbury or even Kapuskasing.

Hawkesbury is even more uninhibitedly francophone than Hearst or Sturgeon. Of course, that's not surprising given where it's located. Casselman, though quite a bit smaller, is also like this. Embrun and Rockland are fairly large towns but less and less like this with every passing day.

Kap is about 70% Francophone. Having lived there for a couple of years, French is predominant there.

Sturgeon Falls is about 50/50, Sudbury and Timmins tended to be more English by default. Generally, in places that are bilingual, you'd be addressed in English first, as almost 100% of the population will speak the language.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by wave46

Kap is about 70% Francophone. Having lived there for a couple of years, French is predominant there.

Sturgeon Falls is about 50/50, Sudbury and Timmins tended to be more English by default. Generally, in places that are bilingual, you'd be addressed in English first, as almost 100% of the population will speak the language.

Are you sure about Sturgeon? I'd guess it's a lot more francophone than 50%. It's hard to find stats now that's it's merged with West Nipissing.

As for Kap I know it's 70% francophone. French is still widely spoken there but it still seems to have cues from when it was 50-50. Which was only a generation or so ago - depopulation and exodus hit the anglophone population harder than the francophone segment there.

Kap still comes across as "anglo-deferential" (for lack of a better term).

[wave46]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Are you sure about Sturgeon? I'd guess it's a lot more francophone than 50%. It's hard to find stats now that's it's merged with West Nipissing.

As for Kap I know it's 70% francophone. French is still widely spoken there but it still seems to have cues from when it was 50-50. Which was only a generation or so ago - depopulation and exodus hit the anglophone population harder than the francophone segment there.

Kap still comes across as "anglo-deferential" (for lack of a better term).

It's hard to tell about Sturgeon Falls, to be honest. It's kind of stuck between Anglophone North Bay to the east and very Francophone rural areas to the west as you've alluded to.

I'd say that while 70% of Kapuskasing residents speak French, almost 100% of them speak English, so, it you're going to be greeted by a cashier/clerk or there's a person who doesn't speak French in the group, English will be the 'by default' language. Makes it seem more English than it really is.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by wave46

It's hard to tell about Sturgeon Falls, to be honest. It's kind of stuck between Anglophone North Bay to the east and very Francophone rural areas to the west as you've alluded to.

I'd say that while 70% of Kapuskasing residents speak French, almost 100% of them speak English, so, it you're going to be greeted by a cashier/clerk or there's a person who doesn't speak French in the group, English will be the 'by default' language. Makes it seem more English than it really is.

Oh yeah, I realize that. To use an example I am fond of today, Kap isn't the type of place where you'd normally see a francophone TV channel on the screen in a restaurant. Even if the population is majority francophone.

[Bandage]

Which Quebec communities are the most Anglo?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Bandage

Which Quebec communities are the most Anglo?

They'd probably be Shawville and environs in the Pontiac, across the river from Pembroke, Ontario. Some towns there are 90% anglo or more.

Several smaller municipalities enclaved in Montreal island also have fairly high percentages of anglos, though not as high as some parts of the Pontiac. The ones in Montreal are also part of larger predominantly francophone metro area.