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  #21  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2014, 5:45 AM
milomilo milomilo is offline
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Originally Posted by sim View Post
I don't think that interchange is big enough. You could probably still walk from the north side of 16th into this area. In fact you can use the ultra direct regional pathway being proposed to do so. There are also not enough multilane roundabouts in there. Everyone knows that roundabouts need to be even bigger. If small roundabouts are all the rage, then bigger ones are even better.

So dumb.
I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but roundabouts are great, the more the better! I think the general happiness of the population will improve with less time spent waiting at endless 4 way signalised intersections.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2014, 2:24 PM
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The retail around the bowfort rd interchange is doomed for failure, they clearly haven't thought about how a 6 lane road affect pedestrians. Getting from one side of bowfort to the other seems like the equivalent of walking across Crowchild.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2014, 2:52 PM
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Originally Posted by speedog View Post
They drive to do anything/everything and don't have an issue with that.

And guess what - there are plenty of people like this in Calgary
If by "plenty", you mean "the majority", then you'd be absolutely correct.

Not passing judgement in either direction, I just think we all lose sight of where we live sometimes.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2014, 3:15 PM
joe498 joe498 is offline
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Oh great, the last thing Calgary needs is another "Mall". More wasted land...

I haven't been to a mall to shop in years with the exception of glasses.

Everything else I buy online.
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  #25  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2014, 3:47 PM
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Not sure how this could be characterized as a "mall" in any sense of the word. It has a pretty substantial retail component, but it's more in a mixed use main street format as currently proposed.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2014, 3:47 PM
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Originally Posted by joe498 View Post
Oh great, the last thing Calgary needs is another "Mall". More wasted land...

I haven't been to a mall to shop in years with the exception of glasses.

Everything else I buy online.
Well by the looks of the packed parking lots I see at pretty much any mall in Calgary or Balzac, I'd say shopping at malls is still a big deal to many.

I never thought Cross Iron Mills would amount to anything and yet it's always busy. Rumoured Chinook and Market Mall expansions plus the remodelled/expanded Deerfoot coming on-line soon - yupp, this COP proposal will probably do well.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2014, 3:48 PM
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Not sure how this could be characterized as a "mall" in any sense of the word. It has a pretty substantial retail component, but it's more in a mixed use main street format as currently proposed.
Not a mall in the true sense but not Crowfoot or it's similar abominations either.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2014, 4:00 PM
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I believe about a month ago I said...

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I think we could work some more on continuing to make COP a year-round thing, and better connecting it to the rest of the city. My company had its Christmas Party in some of the new facilities and they are just spectacular. Maybe the addition of a major hotel and some retail could transform that place into something special.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...79&postcount=7

What can I say? Called it. This isn't 100% what I had in mind, but I'll take it.

Some renderings:





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  #29  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2014, 4:31 PM
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When I was in elementary school circa 1994, the Provincial examination question for the Social Studies written component was on the development of these lands. It's always interested me to see what would happen.
I must say that there really is some stellar single- track trails in that area. But that has only come up in the last couple of years otherwise it has sat largely unused. I am surprised that Winsport hasn't been more active in developing these trails. Seems like it would be competition worthy. A real jewel.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2014, 4:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Boris2k7 View Post
I believe about a month ago I said...


http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...79&postcount=7

What can I say? Called it. This isn't 100% what I had in mind, but I'll take it.

Some renderings:

Glad to see they included a truck in the rendering....
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  #31  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2014, 5:29 PM
milomilo milomilo is offline
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Glad to see they included a truck in the rendering....
And a BMW X6. They know their demographics!
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  #32  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2014, 6:23 PM
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Looks good from what I can see, has a bit of a mountain resort look to it.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2014, 3:11 AM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but roundabouts are great, the more the better! I think the general happiness of the population will improve with less time spent waiting at endless 4 way signalised intersections.
I am. Roundabouts are great so long as they are put where they are great. It's the new found infatuation with roundabouts has befallen the city every which way, and it seems it's coming at fairly minimal understanding. Multilane roundabouts are big structures that require a lot of right of way and make walking trips longer in distance, and possible in time (at least subjectively). Make no mistake about it, their primary function is to move more traffic faster (as you've eluded to) easier and faster. But I guess induced demand has somehow escaped the scrutiny of ardent multilane roundabout proponents. The value of temporal control (like signals) is apparently lost on these same proponents, as you can effectively say goodbye to prioritizing transit, or any other mode. Or heck, what about adjusting for quickly changing conditions for vehicles - like an event at COP for example. Cannot. Green wave? Nope. Increased safety at multilane roundabouts is still debatable unless you're a cyclist, then it's a clear loss.

But yes, they have inaccessible greenery in the middle, so obviously they are walkable.., and Europe has them so they must be good. My understanding is that Spain has effectively banned them from inner cities (confirm those that have lived there?), and if you do a quick high level survey you'll find that they are used sparingly in the inner areas of typical walkable European cities.

So no, I don't believe the more the better when it comes to multilane roundabouts, and their new found status as being the best solution should promptly be reevaluated.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2014, 3:43 AM
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They're not used much in the inner cities, true. But this isn't the inner city, it's a development which is only accessible by car. The roundabouts used here are also on the edges of the developments.

As for pedestrian/cyclist friendliness - that is usually solved, in the UK at least, by underpasses and ideally completely separate pathway systems.

Milton Keynes

I've noticed under/overpasses are very unpopular on this board, however.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2014, 5:02 AM
Vascilli Vascilli is offline
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Looks like another Aspen Landing. Meh.
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  #36  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2014, 5:16 AM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
They're not used much in the inner cities, true. But this isn't the inner city, it's a development which is only accessible by car. The roundabouts used here are also on the edges of the developments.

As for pedestrian/cyclist friendliness - that is usually solved, in the UK at least, by underpasses and ideally completely separate pathway systems.

Milton Keynes

I've noticed under/overpasses are very unpopular on this board, however.
So effectively the walkability aspect in this development is the part where people go from the parking lot to their activity location. Walkability, connectivity, sustainability, more pretty words with diminishing meaning.

It looks to me like at least 2 of those multilane roundabouts are actually fairly central, separating res from commercial.

Underpasses are ok in limited circumstance for cycling when most of the trips are through trips. You'd generally only have it under one, possibly two legs of the roundabout. Here, given you have adjacent land uses, you'd prefer to uphold access and underpasses are not overly conducive to that. They also require a lot of space and extra cash. You're not about to see something akin to the Hovenring to mitigate the inconveniences of a multilane roundabout in Calgary or the monstrosity you just posted above. I wouldn't exactly call that pedestrian friendly although at least it makes some effort. It also misses the actual meaning of pedestrian friendliness. I see little reason for most people to be walking there. In any case, I have a feeling that a developer is not about to destroy that much useful land of their own volition.

I'd be hesitant to use cities in the UK as good models for cycling in the first place. Most of them have very low mode shares and really don't do better than our cycling cities, save for a couple.
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  #37  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2014, 3:59 PM
milomilo milomilo is offline
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Originally Posted by sim View Post
I'd be hesitant to use cities in the UK as good models for cycling in the first place. Most of them have very low mode shares and really don't do better than our cycling cities, save for a couple.
True, I wouldn't say the UK as a whole is a good model to follow, but there are definitely examples to be found of good implementation of infrastructure to improve walkability etc. It's interesting you call that a monstrosity - I'd use that word to describe many of the outgrown intersections in Calgary that also happen to be inefficient for vehicles and pedestrians. That is a particularly big example though.

I struggle to be excited by this proposal though - it is just another power centre, far away from where people live. This serves a function for what some people want, but attempts to make the area walkable are wasted effort really.
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  #38  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2014, 5:32 PM
hulkrogan hulkrogan is offline
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Will any of the Eastlands trails survive this? Having mountain biking trails that people without driver's licenses and roof racks can get to is a great thing to lead people into an active lifestyle. It'd be a shame if it was totally wiped out. A condition requiring trail work to reconfigure the trail system to work around this would be fantastic.
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  #39  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2014, 6:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Vascilli View Post
Looks like another Aspen Landing. Meh.
I was thinking "where have I seen this before"? And then I saw your comment. The design is not exactly original is it.
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  #40  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2014, 8:26 PM
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Originally Posted by hulkrogan View Post
Will any of the Eastlands trails survive this? Having mountain biking trails that people without driver's licenses and roof racks can get to is a great thing to lead people into an active lifestyle. It'd be a shame if it was totally wiped out. A condition requiring trail work to reconfigure the trail system to work around this would be fantastic.
It would appear that the bulk of them should remain intact as this development is slated for the lower, open areas - link to Eastlands trails map.
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