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  #1  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2014, 7:19 PM
scrapin scrapin is offline
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I keep hearing "Toronto is coming close to Chicago" but I dont see it

Even with Toronto's massive downtown growth which is incredibly impressive I still think Toronto is a couple decades away from catching up to Chicago, and thats assuming downtown Chicago doesnt grow much...which I doubt. Theres no shame in being number 3 in USA/Canada.
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  #2  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2014, 7:21 PM
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awww - so cute, you are being openly insecure. There there, here is a hug from the Canadian forumers. *Hugs*
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  #3  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2014, 7:25 PM
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Chicago to me is a far more dangerous version of Toronto. Though I do like Chicago.
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  #4  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2014, 7:35 PM
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Toronto and Chicago are very different cities: their reasons for being, their histories, what role they play in their respective countries, how they look, how they feel, the kind of people that are attracted to each, etc.
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  #5  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2014, 7:41 PM
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Going to Chicago thursday for the first time, I'm excited!

I think Toronto is definitely a North American metropolis now, but it's still not as big as Chicago. Unless Toronto can pop up a few 300m towers and a 400m tower in the skyline...

Skyscrapers aside, Chicago is beautiful but also has it's really ugly sides. I'd rather live in Toronto if I had to choose, so Toronto shouldn't aspire to become Chicago, but rather to become an even bigger Toronto and make it's own name.
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  #6  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2014, 9:45 PM
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Originally Posted by manny_santos View Post
Chicago to me is a far more dangerous version of Toronto. Though I do like Chicago.
Meh, the danger is largely confined to certain neighborhoods and largely involves people who know each other and gang members.

It's horrible that such a thing would exist, but if you moved to Chicago, you can have a great standard of living and live with a peace of mind as long as you're not walking around at 3AM in certain neighborhoods in the South Side while showing off your great smartphone or whatever.

Point is that for the average person going there... the likelihood of being subject to danger is extremely low.
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  #7  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2014, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
Meh, the danger is largely confined to certain neighborhoods and largely involves people who know each other and gang members.

It's horrible that such a thing would exist, but if you moved to Chicago, you can have a great standard of living and live with a peace of mind as long as you're not walking around at 3AM in certain neighborhoods in the South Side while showing off your great smartphone or whatever.

Point is that for the average person going there... the likelihood of being subject to danger is extremely low.
This is true. But being an American city, you are still subject to issues that hopefully we never will have to worry about in Canadian cities.

While most of the danger is confined to some neighborhoods, there have been issues in the nice areas. The swarming and attacks on Michigan Ave of shoppers, the beating up of people coming out of gay bars on the north side, school issues, and other concerns.

This is not just a Chicago thing, but happens in most American cities.
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  #8  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2014, 2:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manny_santos View Post
Chicago to me is a far more dangerous version of Toronto. Though I do like Chicago.
Hey, I find your remark interesting. What do you mean by more "dangerous?"

From what I see of the proposed buildings in Toronto, such as the creations in the Theatre District, I'm blown away. (Not hard to do; I'm from Vancouver).

These, and others such as at SW Yonge and Bloor put Toronto over Chicago in height. But how nice-looking would they be?

I've been to both, and Chicago for me has a certain elegance and continuity to it that I do not find in Toronto. Chicago also has a consistent density in the downtown core,
with many sleek, smart, daring buildings, culmintaing in a "logical" sense with John Hancock, and ultimately the Sears Tower.

Toronto, at present, has dramatic vertical height (look at it in profile as well as the traditional view from the islands! Whoa!!), and an elegant line going down central Bloor, but, due to its lakeshore geography,
does not have, as does Chicago, Grant Park on its lakeshore, nor Michigan Avenue, heading up Lakeshore, with an almost Rio-esque look to it.

Toronto has treated its lakeshore entirely differently, although that enlarges onto another topic.
In buildings, Toronto ranges (IMO) from the imaginatively elegant (RBP), to impressively tall (Scotia, First Canadian PL, etc etc) but has a total look and feel than chicago.
The two dontowns feel and look different, but somehow Chicago hits my adrenaline more, although there are aspects of Toronto - like going down University Avenue - that I wouldn't trade for the world!


Anyway, that's roughly my brief take on the two downtowns. Any futher reply most welcome. Thank You
Anyway, you said "dangerous". I'd love to discuss that further, if that's ok.
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  #9  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2014, 12:19 AM
scrapin scrapin is offline
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Originally Posted by Ashok View Post
awww - so cute, you are being openly insecure. There there, here is a hug from the Canadian forumers. *Hugs*
I'm from Toronto, and my opinion is no bias, you are clearly responding with emotion and not with reason, good day.
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  #10  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2014, 7:41 PM
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Originally Posted by scrapin View Post
Even with Toronto's massive downtown growth which is incredibly impressive I still think Toronto is a couple decades away from catching up to Chicago, and thats assuming downtown Chicago doesnt grow much...which I doubt. Theres no shame in being number 3 in USA/Canada.
Catching up in which way?

Both cities are great. But after you spend time in both cities, you notice that Toronto, including the central downtown area, is still much healthier than Chicago, including the downtown area of Chicago.

Chicago has outstanding architecture, which Toronto could sure learn from. But a side from that, I don't know if there is much catching up to do.

Again both cities have great things. But many people tend to hang out on Michigan Ave in Chicago, and forget about all the issues facing the city in other neighborhoods. Not to mention the core loop area which still is struggling to become as vibrant as it once was.
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  #11  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2014, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post

Again both cities have great things. But many people tend to hang out on Michigan Ave in Chicago, and forget about all the issues facing the city in other neighborhoods. Not to mention the core loop area which still is struggling to become as vibrant as it once was.

Even Milwaukee Ave has lots of gaps, vacant storefronts and suburban looking strip malls not that far from the core. While I love that part of the city, it's not as consistently vibrant as Queen or even Bloor.

As others have mentioned though, Chicago isn't quite as similar to Toronto as it sometimes gets portrayed. The layout and vernacular of both cities are quite different, and each has its pros and cons.

Edit: was reading quickly and misread Michigan for Milwaukee. These don't apply to Michigan, which is gorgeous!
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  #12  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2014, 10:23 PM
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I see quite a bit of similarities between Toronto and Chicago. Chicago has more of the large office buildings while Toronto has more residential towers. I don't think it's a stretch at all comparing the skylines. The two cities at street level are different.
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  #13  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2014, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Deepstar View Post
I see quite a bit of similarities between Toronto and Chicago. Chicago has more of the large office buildings while Toronto has more residential towers. I don't think it's a stretch at all comparing the skylines. The two cities at street level are different.
Toronto has high-rises everywhere including the suburbs. Where Chicago's high-rises are mostly confined to the downtown area and the north side lakeshore north of downtown.
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  #14  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2014, 11:13 PM
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The two cities are so different which is why I believe these threads always lead to statistics on the number of towers. Toronto has made major inroads towards catching up to Chicago in the 300 to 500 range. Should real estate trends continue, it is within the realm of possibilites that Toronto will catch and possibly surpass in the 500+ range in decades time. At such a point, the conversation will be a lot more entertaining along the same vein as New York vs Hong Kong.
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  #15  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2014, 8:21 PM
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Historical Note: Winnipeg was once called the "Chicago of the North". really...


Can I start a Comparison thread..Winnipeg similiar to Chicago way back when...?
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  #16  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2014, 8:24 PM
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Toronto will never be Chicago of Canada at all, everything between 2 cities are much different. Chicago is much older city than Toronto. I rather choose Toronto over Chicago for many different reasons.
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  #17  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2014, 8:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikey563 View Post
Chicago is much older city than Toronto.
Is this true? It would probably be more accurate to say that Chicago got started a little later (~1850) but grew much more quickly for a while.

I've always found this comparison a little odd because the two cities don't seem like they compete very directly. One is the primary business centre for Canada and the other other plays a similar role for the Midwestern US. Economic competition aside, the question of which place is better to live in or visit is more a matter of taste.

It is kind of interesting though that the Chicago-Toronto thing feels real enough that people are making threads about it now. Chicagoans who entertain this comparison are implicitly accepting a change in relative stature between the two cities compared to where they were a few decades ago.
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  #18  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2014, 11:50 AM
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It is kind of interesting though that the Chicago-Toronto thing feels real enough that people are making threads about it now. Chicagoans who entertain this comparison are implicitly accepting a change in relative stature between the two cities compared to where they were a few decades ago.
Torontonians started making threads about whether we could usurp Chicago 10 years ago, but they're becoming less common. Our insecurities have vanished and we almost have this unswerving faith that it's a fait accompli. Time to move on to the next target (New York) although that city will be a monumental challenge. It won't happen in my life time.

By the time some Chicagoans entertain the Chicago-Toronto comparison, the comparison will be largely pointless. It might put some people's nose out of joint, but a significant number of people have already looked beyond Chicago. Chicago still holds the lead in size, but by most other measures Toronto has already passed it. Even in some of those metrics that deal with scale, Toronto has quietly moved ahead. Which city is home to the larger transportation hub, Chicago or Toronto? If you answered Chicago (O'Hare), you'd be wrong. It's Union Station in Toronto. There are many other examples like this.

Chicago will remain a large financial centre, but it speaks volumes that Chicago's days as a global financial centre are behind it. I believe it was Foreign Policy and AT Kearney who made that point last year. A re-jigging of the pecking order is a difficult transition for any city to go through. No city is immune from it although London does seem to re-invent itself over and over and over.
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Last edited by isaidso; Nov 19, 2014 at 9:30 PM.
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  #19  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2014, 1:46 PM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Time to move on to the next target (New York) although that city will be a monumental challenge. It won't happen in my life time.
Wouldn't LA be the next target?
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  #20  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2014, 2:32 PM
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please excuse a double entry .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Torontonians started making threads about whether we could usurp Chicago 10 years ago, but they're becoming less common. Our insecurities have vanished and we almost have this unswerving faith that it's a fait accompli. Time to move on to the next target (New York) although that city will be a monumental challenge. It won't happen in my life time.

//sorry, but I do not understand why Toronto feels the need to overtake New York. Isn't that a bit pretentious? Or maybe not. Let New York be New York , and just be Toronto, with a focus on "quality" not quantity. (the "quantity" being the sheer height in this case//

......... By the time some Chicagoans entertain the Chicago-Toronto comparison, the comparison will be largely pointless.
Chicago will remain a large financial centre, but it speaks volumes that Chicago's days as a global financial centre are behind it. I believe it was Foreign Policy and AT Kearney who made that point last year. A re-jigging of the pecking order is a difficult transition for any city to go through.

// does this "rejigging, which is a natural and normal sequence, seems to be interpreted here as, additionally, have bigger, taller,and more high-rises? You mentioned overtalking NYC earlier.
Does this mean that Toronto will overtake NY as the third, second, or even first global financial centre, and needs the height to state that? //

No city is immune from it although London does seem to re-invent itself over and over and over.
//are you referring to the Shard, or to the city centre in general, its building styles and designs? But, hey, that is a remarkable and amazing city// thanks for your time
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