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View Poll Results: Which Mass Transit project should have the MTA's next priority?
Light Rail to Crenshaw Blvd, Norwalk/Santa Fe Springs and Del Amo Mall 7 2.11%
LIght Rail: Downtown Connector 65 19.64%
405 Freeway Corridor from Van Nuys to LAX 45 13.60%
Subway/Heavy Rail to Westwood 157 47.43%
Subway/Heavy Rail via Whitter Blvd 9 2.72%
Subway/Heavy Rail via Vermont Avenue 9 2.72%
Double Track and Electrify Metrolink Lines 22 6.65%
Other 9 2.72%
None 8 2.42%
Voters: 331. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old Posted May 26, 2005, 12:09 AM
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From an engineering and funding standpoint, it might be more feasible to build a cross platform link between the blue and gold lines at Union Station rather than shoehorn some sort of complicated wye configuration near Temple and Alameda.

After a stop at Disney Hall, I could just as easily see the Blue line continue north along Hope and travel along a viaduct above the Hollywood Freeway until it reached Union Station. You could even put a Blue Line stop between both Spring and Main to serve/connect both the Civic Center and El Pueblo.
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  #22  
Old Posted May 26, 2005, 7:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookiejarvis
From an engineering and funding standpoint, it might be more feasible to build a cross platform link between the blue and gold lines at Union Station rather than shoehorn some sort of complicated wye configuration near Temple and Alameda.

After a stop at Disney Hall, I could just as easily see the Blue line continue north along Hope and travel along a viaduct above the Hollywood Freeway until it reached Union Station. You could even put a Blue Line stop between both Spring and Main to serve/connect both the Civic Center and El Pueblo.
Two questions;
1) Do you see the Disney Hall station being a subway or an elevated stop? If the answer is a subway station then how and where do you transition this to the elevated track?

2) If you were to make this travel along above the Hollywood Freeway, how high do we have to build this elevated track, since at Hill Street (the very first street that you will encounter) is between 3 to 4 stories difference between Grand and Broadway the streets next to Hill.

I'm asking these questions to make the point that it's probably more difficult to engineer that set up then to just building the Wye.
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Last edited by Wright Concept; May 26, 2005 at 9:13 PM.
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  #23  
Old Posted May 26, 2005, 8:35 PM
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As of May 26, 2005; Like I thought it would be. The top two are:

2) 10 Votes= Red Line to Westwood


1) 12 Votes= DowntownConnector
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"Statistics are used much like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support, not illumination." -Vin Scully
The Opposite of PRO is CON, that fact is clearly seen.
If Progress means moves forward, then what does Congress mean?

Last edited by Wright Concept; Nov 4, 2005 at 6:20 PM.
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  #24  
Old Posted May 26, 2005, 9:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookiejarvis
From an engineering and funding standpoint, it might be more feasible to build a cross platform link between the blue and gold lines at Union Station rather than shoehorn some sort of complicated wye configuration near Temple and Alameda.
If the links didn't physically connect at LAUS, you'd lose the ability to have single-seat rides from any point to any other. And if you want to connect them at LAUS, I would think you'd need to split the tracks, then enter the platform from both ends by wrapping around either side of the station. IMO, this sounds much more complicated than a wye-junction at Temple/Alameda.
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Old Posted May 27, 2005, 6:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PracticalVisionary

Two questions;
1) Do you see the Disney Hall station being a subway or an elevated stop? If the answer is a subway station then how and where do you transition this to the elevated track?

2) If you were to make this travel along above the Hollywood Freeway, how high do we have to build this elevated track, since at Hill Street (the very first street that you will encounter) is between 3 to 4 stories difference between Grand and Broadway the streets next to Hill.

I'm asking these questions to make the point that it's probably more difficult to engineer that set up then to just building the Wye.
I'll have to revisit the area again to check the viability of this but here's the general idea:

The Concert Hall station would be underground. I would take the Blue Line all the way up to Hope until the Hollywood Freeway, at which point it would veer East along the hill slope parallel to the Cathedral. The line would surface around Aliso and Broadway with partial street running along Aliso and then continue viaduct to Union Station.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2005, 6:18 PM
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Could the 405 be a transit corridor sleeper in this "race"?, Stranger things have happended


Inaction means gridlock for years


By Lisa Mascaro, Staff Writer

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's administration has jeopardized a deal to get $400 million in federal funds to fast-track adding a critical car-pool lane on the northbound San Diego Freeway into the San Fernando Valley, Rep. Howard Berman charged Monday.
Schwarzenegger aides acknowledged that the administration is more concerned with the Alameda Corridor East project and fears that throwing its full support behind easing congestion on the 405 Freeway might jeopardize funding for the effort to move freight more quickly out of the harbor area.

But Berman, D-Van Nuys, said the 405 funding is extra money the state could get to dramatically speed up construction of the car-pool lane now scheduled for completion in 2018.

He said time is running out on the deal and accused the Schwarzenegger administration of dashing hopes to get the lane that would provide enormous relief for thousands of commuters.

"It's unfathomable why California leaders won't fight for California," said Berman.

"I'm pretty upset. This was a chance to speed up (construction). I don't see an administration hungry to take advantage of a chance of getting some federal money that will go to some other state.

"This is not the guy who's out there demanding California get its fair share -- 'the Collectinator."'

Time is running out on the deal. The federal highway bill is in the final stages of negotiations before a conference committee on which Berman has won support for the 405 Freeway project that would create a car-pool lane from Interstate 10 through the heavily congested Sepulveda Pass to the 101 Freeway.

But state officials said their priority has been on goods-movement projects -- notably for the Alameda Corridor East, where they are counting on $900 million to provide grade separations for freight across the San Gabriel Valley and points east.

They say they are doing the best they can to support the 405 project but that it came into the legislative process late -- after they had already formed a consensus around 388 projects for California.

"We don't dispute this is potentially a huge shot in the arm for mobility in California, but we have in essence, with the exception of the (Alameda Corridor East) and some goods-movement projects, not endorsed any of those 388 that are not regional in nature," said John Barna, deputy secretary for transportation in the state's Business, Transportation and Housing Agency.

"Because this emerged late in the consensus-building process, we have been trying to do what we can. We have tried to do what we think is reasonable within the consensus principles."

Berman has been working for the past three years to get funding for a northbound car-pool lane on the San Diego Freeway, one of the main arteries between the Valley and the Westside.

The money would build the high-occupancy-vehicle lane from the Santa Monica Freeway to the Ventura Freeway -- one of the last car-pool lanes to be built for a grinding commute through the Sepulveda Pass.

He has won support from the ranking Democrat on the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee to get the allotment into the massive nearly $300 billion highway bill pending before Congress.

But the committee wants support from the state on two fronts: a 20 percent contribution toward the cost and a pledge to get work seriously under way during the 4-year life of the bill.

Berman said the state's response has been lukewarm.

"There's no zeal, no intent to make both happen," Berman said.

State transportation officials responded in two letters to the congressman that goods movement was their top priority.

"We would not want to see funding for the Alameda Corridor East diminished," wrote Sunne Wright McPeak, who heads the administration's Business, Transportation and Housing Agency.

State officials also wrote that it would be impossible to finish the project under the required time frame without utilizing a construction process called "design-build" -- which has been shot down by the Legislature this session.

Barna said the Business, Transportation and Housing Agency cannot commit to a fast-track construction schedule until it can get the Legislature to allow the design-build process.

"We are working very hard in Sacramento to get that," he said. "We would have loved to have said this is going to be our design-build poster child."

With only days left until the federal conference committee wraps up negotiations on the highway bill -- ending the chance to add or delete items before it goes to Congress for approvals -- the chance to get the 405 project fades.

Rep. James L. Oberstar of Minnesota, the ranking Democrat on the committee, said talks will be concluded soon.

"It makes it difficult for us to advocate on behalf of House members for this project since the state is not forthcoming," he said.

"I'd support it because I believe the need has been demonstrated now and the growth trend for the future is such that, if investments are not made within the next five years, 10 years from now it'll be one of the poster children for congestion in America."

Sherman Oaks Homeowners Association President Richard Close, who drives the 405 on most weekdays to work on the Westside, remains hopeful the governor will provide the leadership needed to seal the deal.

"The traffic jams on the 405 northbound affect all residents of the Valley and anyone trying to do business in the Valley. Unless we get this money now, we may not get the required money for another 15 years. It's all in the hands of the governor."

Lisa Mascaro, (818) 713-3761 lisa.mascaro@dailynews.com

Last edited by Wright Concept; Nov 4, 2005 at 6:16 PM.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2005, 7:12 PM
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How would the 405 carpool lane play into the hands of a westside transit corridor? To piggyback transit on this project you'd have to throw out the existing carpool plan and go back to the drawing board. Unless you're thinking of somethin' else.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2005, 9:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookiejarvis
How would the 405 carpool lane play into the hands of a westside transit corridor? To piggyback transit on this project you'd have to throw out the existing carpool plan and go back to the drawing board. Unless you're thinking of somethin' else.
Simple, because it's current. And a guy with a big vision who holds a powerful seat on the MTA board right now can make that move.

To look at planning something for this corridor. The timing could work or massage this into the corridors favor to start planning for it. Keep in mind even though the Westwood Red Line and Downtown Connector already had EIRs and Designs, they are out of date, and will basically require them to start from scratch. In other words the 405 line is on the same footing planning wise as Red Line to Westwood and Downtown Connector
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Last edited by Wright Concept; Jul 5, 2005 at 9:53 PM.
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  #29  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2005, 8:48 PM
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Downtown Connector Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art
so where would the alignment fo the DTC go north fom first street to temple?
I've been flirting with this for a couple of weeks and this just might work to run the DTC down 2nd Street. The only drawback right now is that along Second Street is where they're building a lot of new residents whose front windows will face the street.



From the 7th Street Metro Center, the tunnel will continue north (with 4 tracks in some locations to facilitate trains ending between the 7th/Metro and 4th St and Bunker Hill. A similar set up is done in Boston with their Green Line trolleys some trains end downtown while others continue through) with a station on 4th/Flower. The Tunnel curves north east on to Second Street, on top of the existing Second Street Tunnel with a Station on Bunker Hill/Grand Avenue.

Between Olive and Hill Street the tunnel because of the sloping topography will create a "portal" and becomes an elevated structure which will continue the rest of the way.

A stop can be placed on Spring Street incorporating a new development into the actual station platform. Another stop will be located on the SW corner of First/Alameda- for the Little Tokyo/Arts District station-doing the same element by turning the ground floor retail into a entrance of the rail station.

From 1st/Alameda the Connector will continue as an elevated until the Flyover bridge by Union Station and to the First Street Bridge where First street rises in slope in order to meet up with the bridge, because it makes no sense to try to bring it to street level to only then bring it back up to an elevated (creating a Roller-Coaster ride)

So in other words about 0.5 mile of it will be in a tunnel, the other 1.25 to 1.5 miles will be elevated, so that it can level itself with the topography and create the potential of sweeping City views.

Cost:
0.5 mile SUBWAY (@ $300 M/mile)= $150 Million
1.5 miles ELEVATED (@ $110 M/mile)= $165 Million
10% for Administrative Fees and change orders= $35 million
______________________________________________
Total= $350 Million in 2006 dollars
=$235 million/mile for all grade separation
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If Progress means moves forward, then what does Congress mean?

Last edited by Wright Concept; Sep 4, 2006 at 1:02 AM.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2005, 10:31 PM
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It's certainly a cost-effective plan, and in principle I have no objection to an elevated train. My big concern would be the increasing number of residents along Second Street who would probably object to trains going by their windows. As their numbers increase and the real-estate values rise, it will be more and more likely that these people will becoming screaming NIMBYs.
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  #31  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2005, 12:12 AM
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everything should be tunnel!
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  #32  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2005, 1:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongBeachUrbanist
It's certainly a cost-effective plan, and in principle I have no objection to an elevated train. My big concern would be the increasing number of residents along Second Street who would probably object to trains going by their windows. As their numbers increase and the real-estate values rise, it will be more and more likely that these people will becoming screaming NIMBYs.
That is my only fear that would make the cost of the project out of reach. That the very new residents supplying the boom for an Urban Lifestyle would want suburban peace-and-quiet
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  #33  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2005, 2:26 AM
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just cause they dont wabt rail on next to their window doesnt mean they want a piece of suburbia.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2005, 4:38 AM
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For the record:

On Second Street the Higgins Building is already occupied, 2nd/Central and the Alexan Savoy are close to opening, and the Related project is in the pipeline. Also there are the Kawada and New Otani hotels.

Third Street has residents in Casa Heiwa, Douglas and Grand Central, coming soon are Teramachi, Irvine Byrne, and Medallion and Zen are in the planning stages.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2005, 5:39 PM
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Well, I voted for a heavy rail on Vermont, an idea I've supported several times on this forum.

However, the DT connector does sound like a great idea as long as it is grade separated. Being able to go from LB to Pasadena or East LA to Culver City (once the Expo is finished) without making a single transfer is real power and mobility.

I'm all for the redline extension, but as I've said before I'm a bit skeptical about the ridership it will have and what effect it will have on the city. I dont see it, as others do, as this magical thing that will make LA rail crazy and get rich Westsiders out of their cars and onto transit. If DT and the Westside are as segregated as some of you claim, then who exactly would be traveling along a subway from each point? This is where I think the Metro Rail has failed: not connecting communities which are already connected. The Blue Line for example connects South Central with DTLA, but is that area more connected to DTLA or is it more connected to Inglewood and points in between? Is Pasadena really that connected to DTLA? I think it's obvious to everyone that it isn't nearly so as it is to Glendale, Burbank, or even Hollywood (which is why I think a rail from Noho or Sunset/Vermont through those areas would have made a lot more sense than the current alignment).
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  #36  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2005, 6:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesTheAngelino
Well, I voted for a heavy rail on Vermont, an idea I've supported several times on this forum.

However, the DT connector does sound like a great idea as long as it is grade separated. Being able to go from LB to Pasadena or East LA to Culver City (once the Expo is finished) without making a single transfer is real power and mobility.

I'm all for the redline extension, but as I've said before I'm a bit skeptical about the ridership it will have and what effect it will have on the city. I dont see it, as others do, as this magical thing that will make LA rail crazy and get rich Westsiders out of their cars and onto transit. If DT and the Westside are as segregated as some of you claim, then who exactly would be traveling along a subway from each point?...
This map just indicates a structured strategy of which lines should be planned and built next;
(1) SFV Orange Line BRT
(2) ELA Gold Line LRT
(3) WLA/Expo Line LRT
(4) SGV/Foothill Gold Line to Azusa
(5) Downtown Connector via Bunker Hill, Phase 1
Phase 2 planning via Fashion District
(6) LAX/Crenshaw/Mid-City Green Line
(7) South Bay Galleria and Norwalk Green Line Extensions

(8) Sunset Blvd (Silver Lake, Echo Park, Elysian Park) LRT
(9) 405 Corridor Rail Line (LRT or HRT from WLA/Expo Line to Van Nuys)
(10) Subway/Elevated via Wilshire or Vermont Corridor



The Subway/Elevated to Westwood, by itself will not do that especially when nothing is built for the 405 where that Freeway can be a Parking lot on some days. But it's a start, at the very least it will allow existing 75 to 90 thousand bus riders and Metro Rail users quicker access to those destinations on the Westside. If anything the region will use it more than the just those residents. Plus most of the focus will be on the Mid-Wilshire/Hollywood portion so when the piece to at least Westwood is finished UCLA students and other residents can reach the attractions of Mid-Wilshire and Hollywood, they don't neccessarily have to go to Downtown.

As for the Subway/Elevated along Vermont Avenue(this is one of my other pet rail corridors with the connector and 405 being more critical, I live on Vermont btw.) Just like Wilshire, Vermont I believe one of the busiest bus corridors on the system with 50 to 55 thousand riders a day. Plus this would be developers and businessman's dream because there are still open parcels for development and rehabillitiation. And there's a wide parkway Right-of-way that can allow the train to run elevated yet still provide space underneath for pocket parks and a bikeway along it.


Realistically this is what the vision would look like

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Last edited by Wright Concept; Mar 18, 2007 at 2:52 AM.
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  #37  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2005, 4:52 PM
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Los Angeles Daily News
Antonio takes lead on transit
By Lisa Mascaro
Staff Writer


Thursday, July 28, 2005 - Taking a firm grasp of the helm of the MTA, Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa spelled out a bold plan for revitalizing the city's mass-transit system Thursday with a long-term agenda of bus, rail and subway projects.

In his first board meeting since winning election, Villaraigosa told a standing-room-only crowd it is an honor to serve as chairman of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority. He said it will take years to bring to fruition many of his bold dreams -- like a subway extension under Wilshire Boulevard -- but he vowed to put plans in motion.

"We must have a vision and a long-term plan for the future, including investment in new rail lines. We must get projects ready to (go) and grow the budget pie in Washington and Sacramento," he said.

"This does not mean we will open a subway to the sea during my term. But it means we have to start planning for this and other sensible projects."

More than 100 members of the Bus Riders Union attended the meeting and urged the mayor to persuade the 12 other board members to fulfill a court order for up to 660 additional buses to relieve overcrowding. The BRU entered into a consent decree nearly a decade ago to settle its civil rights lawsuit against the MTA.

BRU organizer Manuel Criollo said the group was heartened that Villaraigosa pledged to build a "first-class" bus system and pleased that he had moved up the public comment portion to the beginning of hours-long meetings.

As commuters told of problems during a lengthy public comment period, Villaraigosa made personal connections -- asking one speaker for his list of suggestions, assigning staff to take down the complaints of others.

Unlike his predecessor, former Mayor James Hahn, who declined to chair the MTA, Villaraigosa indicated he will play a major role in setting the agenda for the $2.8 billion agency that sets transportation policy countywide.

He said safety would be a top priority, especially in the wake of the London and Madrid train bombings.

And while he promised to improve the bus system, he downplayed rumors of a pending fare hike, calling it "premature."

"For me, I need a lot more evidence to demonstrate a fare increase is appropriate at this time."

He also touted the experience his three appointees -- Councilman Bernard Parks, former San Fernando Valley Assemblyman Richard Katz and Valley civic leader David Fleming -- will bring to the board.

But the mayor said a region as vast as Los Angeles County needs options, which include building more rail lines and improving freeway travel. He also called for staff members to report next month on a Wilshire Boulevard transit lane, a rail connector to link all lines downtown and MTA equal-opportunity efforts.

However, the mayor was sidelined on a handful of votes -- buying safety gloves, acquiring property, hiring consultants for the Exposition line -- because of the MTA's strict policy that prohibits board members from voting if they've received $10 or more in campaign contributions from those having business before the agency.

Still, other board members and transit advocates welcomed his approach.

"He told it clear. He's going to Washington. He's going to Sacramento. He's going to do it -- no ifs, ands or buts," said Bart Reed of The Transit Coalition.

"His message was, while we're going to plan and build for the future, we're not going to ignore today's riders," said Katz.

Supervisor Michael Antonovich welcomed the mayor's regional approach.

"The supervisor applauds the mayor for being inclusionary," said Antonovich's transportation deputy, Michael Cano.


--
Lisa Mascaro, (818) 713-3761 lisa.mascaro@dailynews.com

Here are Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa's top MTA priorities:

Safety: Ensure security systemwide.
Budget: Increase revenues, but not fares. Cut waste.
Transit: Plan subway extension. Build Exposition light-rail line to Santa Monica, the Gold Line to the San Gabriel Valley and connection to Los Angeles International Airport. Study downtown rail connector, Wilshire Boulevard transit lane.
Freeway: Finish car-pool system, including northbound San Diego Freeway lane. Improve freeway interchanges, including 101-405 and 5-14.
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  #38  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2005, 5:53 PM
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This coming to the MTA Board Wednesday at 1:00pm and Thursday at 9:00 am

Downtown Connector
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Last edited by Wright Concept; Sep 12, 2005 at 6:41 PM.
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  #39  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2005, 6:37 PM
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^ Thursday, not Tuesday. In other words,
  • MTA Board Meeting, Wednesday 1pm
  • Exec Mgmt/Audit Meeting, Thursday 9am.
I will try to make it Wednesday. The Metro Connector is IMO the most critically-needed piece of rail in the system, and would be a great boon for Downtown. This thing needs to get onto the Long Range Plan.
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Old Posted Oct 3, 2005, 12:21 AM
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LA Times: Downtown Connector

EDITORIAL
You can't ride a study


October 2, 2005


IF YOU'RE RIDING METRO RAIL from, say, Pasadena to Staples Center, here's what you have to do: Take the Gold Line to Union Station, where you have to switch to a Red Line train, which you take to the 7th Street station, where you have to switch to a Blue Line train, which will take you to the Pico station. From there it is a two-block walk to Staples Center.

In other words, it can be done — but not quickly or easily.

The proposed solution is a 1.5-mile subway that would connect the Blue Line and the Gold Line through the middle of downtown Los Angeles. Though not a high priority now, such a line would be crucial when two giant mixed-use projects downtown are completed: The L.A. Live entertainment complex around Staples Center and the Grand Avenue project near City Hall. The connector would allow people to take one train straight from Grand Avenue to L.A. Live.

It will be years or maybe decades before the connector is built — if ever. But the excessive caution of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority board is only slowing the process, perhaps fatally.

The board was originally asked to approve a study of the line's costs, estimated ridership, timeline and funding sources at its Thursday meeting. But the motion was amended by Supervisor Yvonne Brathwaite Burke to become an analysis of the costs of studying such matters. In other words, a call to study the downtown connector became a call to study the costs of doing a study.

Burke's efforts to protect public funds and ensure that a low-priority project doesn't interfere with more important matters are admirable. But it's possible to be penny wise and pound foolish. It's vital to study the connector now because developers are in the planning stages of the Grand Avenue project. Decisions need to be made soon on the location of the line and its stations so they can be incorporated into the Grand Avenue design. If they have to be added later with no prior planning, it will add enormous expense and difficulty.

The MTA staff has been directed to complete its cost analysis before the November/December board meeting. When it does, the board should stop dithering and spend what it takes to complete a real study.
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If Progress means moves forward, then what does Congress mean?
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