Time for Vancouver to Tear Down Its Viaducts?

[IanS]

Originally Posted by logan5

How about funneling traffic onto Pacific Blvd. It's already 45 feet wide, so if you eliminate parking and widen it by 5 feet then you have 5 lanes to deal with rush hour traffic. Combine that with a Kingsway connector and a Malkin connector that tie into Pacific Blvd, and that should keep traffic flowing. It doesn't seem like it would be too difficult to reconfigure surface streets to compensate for the loss of 1 km of viaduct. Do some people actually like the viaducts?

Pacific runs through a residential area. Why spend a good deal of money to redirect traffic off the viaducts and funnel it through a residential area?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Who else showed up at the Woodwards event?

I'm kind of sad I didn't get a mention anywhere; but I think I got a big lesson out of it. Practical ideas aren't sexy and definitely don't sell well. I think I hit almost all the turf that the panel was looking for as far desirable traits/goals go; but I think I was conventional in what I think could be done....

Well, I voted for ya!

In addition you made the cardinal sin of presenting something that had a realistic goal and acknowledged the fact that motorized vehicles are an important part of our current transportation mix.

I had to laugh at the canal proposals. Someone should dig up and post Concord's original renderings for the Expo lands which looked like some kind of west coast Venice, look what happened to that vision!

[s211]

Originally Posted by hollywoodnorth

I fully agree. Meggs ... its time to wake up!

With Meggs as Robertson's ideologue, and chief propagandist, I'm not holding my breath.

[s211]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Agreed. The statements regarding the viaducts usage during the Olympics was laughable. They act as if it was business as usual downtown during the Olympics and people were "adjusting" when in fact plenty of office towers were up to 50% empty (or even more) during the Olympics.

I recall chatting with some lawyers shortly after the Olympics and they said they had whole floors of office space void of employees during the games. And that demographic usually drives... but don't tell Meggs that. He'll run his bike over you to silence you.

[jlousa]

We didn't have any floors empty but we did have people starting at 5am instead and others working afternoons, and between 25-33% people taking time off, either the full 2 weeks or at least some of the time off.

Since it doesn't seem like anyone else attended last night, could you give us rundown of the commentary and winners.

[officedweller]

Yup - our (law) firm was dead during the Olympics - people were attending events and volunteering.

[amor de cosmos]

& the winner is.....



http://www.viaductscomp.ca/view_submission.php?ID=71

(my choice too, but I didn't look carefully at all of them)

[whatnext]

I'm looking forward to seeing Meggs huff and puff as he tries to get his bike up the Dunsmuir ramp heading into downtown. Or better yet, given his propensity to pedal through stop signs, see him negotiate what will be a very steep hill headed down the bluff.

[Metro-One]

Wow, just wow. The one with the head furthest up its ass wins! Sorry, but this is just a nightmare for traffic and any chance of creating a UNIQUE urban environment that the viaducts could give us and area.

But no, lets make the most plain, condo tower in the park design we can do with a ridiculously small road network given the choke point in geography.

I cant believe they even take away the entire route around the stadiums, possibly the coolest urban drive in Vancouver.

no face palm emoticon can do my feeling justice.

Ugh....

I cant wait to go back to Japan, a place where they actually embrace the urban style, instead of always trying to cover it up in pathetic attempts such as this.

Sorry, but towers snug between and straddling over the ducts with restaurants and skate parks under them and lighting effects, etc... is far more interesting than this more of the same

There we go, that is the logo for this proposal, MORE OF THE SAME IN VANCOUVER!

[Alex Mackinnon]

Does this one cut it?

I feel like I should add that Beasley's wasn't the only winner. It won along with 3 other ones in that category because nobody thought any of them we're particularly outstanding. They all split the prize money. It's kind of funny when you think of how stacked Beasley's team was.

Darn holes won the Connecting the Core competition]
Container Bridge also got runner up
Radioactive Goo from Whistler mountain tied Peoples Choice in Conneting the Core
Small canals tied with Radioactive Goo for Peoples Choice

Bruce MacDonald's the ramps co-won Visualize the Viaduct
Union Park also co-won
Grotto Cave also co-won
Beasley's Super Team also co-won


AECOM won the Wildcard

I forget the rest. Oh well.

[Stingray2004]

Well, in the minimum, the Georgia viaduct will always be 3 lanes heading eastbound to Main Street. Will never be ripped down, will never be 2-way, will never have a bike lane.

Since its incorporation as part of the Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority's (aka Translink) MRN in 1999 - that's a given. They won't permit its demolition no matter what the CoV wants. Similar MRN removal requests across the Metro Vancouver region have fallen also on deaf ears.

The Dunsmuir viaduct is the only one currently at risk - but its potential demolition wouldn't make sense in any event. And according to the CoV, that's between 5 and 20 years out. New "progressive" city councils will be in place by then.

[WBC]

Now, now...Don't despair...Burnaby will welcome you with open hands you poor, long suffering officer workers, businesses and families with children...We shall build a new society around Metrotown...We also may need to build some walls around it for when yoga pants wearing zombies come calling...

[Nutterbug]

Before they take down the viaducts, I think they should:

• Double track the Expo Line from Metrotown to stadium.
• Build another parallel Skytrain line going under Downtown at Robson, through the West End and eventually to the North Shore.
• Extend the Skytrain from Waterfront along Hastings to Cassiar.

What's a realistic timeline for that? 20-30 years?

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by Nutterbug

Before they take down the viaducts, I think they should:

• Double track the Expo Line from Metrotown to stadium.
• Build another parallel Skytrain line going under Downtown at Robson, through the West End and eventually to the North Shore.
• Extend the Skytrain from Waterfront along Hastings to Cassiar.

What's a realistic timeline for that? 20-30 years?

That won't happen until at least 10 years after UBC, Newton, and Guildford are served by rapid transit, AND Victoria has its LRT built. So take however long you think those will take, and add 10 years to that. Me? I'll guess the following:

Evergreen 2016
Surrey line 1 and Victoria LRT phase 1 2021
UBC line 2026
Surrey line 2 and Victoria LRT phase 2 2031
Hastings 2041

At which point I will be 69 years old... how old will you be? :-)

[Nutterbug]

Originally Posted by Zassk

That won't happen until at least 10 years after UBC, Newton, and Guildford are served by rapid transit, AND Victoria has its LRT built. So take however long you think those will take, and add 10 years to that. Me? I'll guess the following:

Evergreen 2016
Surrey line 1 and Victoria LRT phase 1 2021
UBC line 2026
Surrey line 2 and Victoria LRT phase 2 2031
Hastings 2041

At which point I will be 69 years old... how old will you be? :-)

Just a couple of years older than you.

[Metro-One]

Even that is a generous timeline....

What saddens me the most about this entire political stunt of Meggs, his viaduct circus it should be called, is that developers were already well on their way in planning how to build between and beside the ducts. I remember seeing a concord rendering with towers between and beside them. This would have made one of the most interesting urban areas in Vancouver. The area between the stadiums with Costco and the train station already is amazingly interesting. but now I am betting all that development is shelved just to see how this parade ends. Thanks Meggs!

Maybe that is why he brought it up so suddenly, because he saw this was going to be his last chance to destroy them before they became too engrained in the urban fabric...

And here is what I find very ironic about the winning bid. I thought one of the main complaints was that the viaducts act as a barrier (which they are not if managed properly by the city), yet the winning design has water canals throughout it. One would think that water bodies are much more obvious barriers than the viaducts! All those special paths have to built over them, while any place under the viaduct can be crossed (again just take down the faces and build a park!)

The funniest thing is nearly all that is sown in the winning idea can be done with one of both of the viaducts still standing!

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

Well, in the minimum, the Georgia viaduct will always be 3 lanes heading eastbound to Main Street. Will never be ripped down, will never be 2-way, will never have a bike lane.

Since its incorporation as part of the Greater Vancouver Transportation Authority's (aka Translink) MRN in 1999 - that's a given. They won't permit its demolition no matter what the CoV wants. Similar MRN removal requests across the Metro Vancouver region have fallen also on deaf ears.

The Dunsmuir viaduct is the only one currently at risk - but its potential demolition wouldn't make sense in any event. And according to the CoV, that's between 5 and 20 years out. New "progressive" city councils will be in place by then.

Except there is a real (and frightening) possibility Adrian Dix and the NDP could be controlling the Translink levers in the near future - And Meggs' wife just happens to be the provincial secretary of the NDP. If any of you have money in Vancity-she's also on the Board there.

[Sir Conga]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

And here is what I find very ironic about the winning bid. I thought one of the main complaints was that the viaducts act as a barrier (which they are not if managed properly by the city), yet the winning design has water canals throughout it. One would think that water bodies are much more obvious barriers than the viaducts! All those special paths have to built over them, while any place under the viaduct can be crossed (again just take down the faces and build a park!)

The funniest thing is nearly all that is sown in the winning idea can be done with one of both of the viaducts still standing!

Even though I am not a huge fan of keeping both Viaducts, I completely agree with your point. There is of course something quite romantic about the idea of canals, but I don't know if it makes much practical sense.

I do like the idea of more natural usage of land bordering False Creek, like the new habitat park at OV. One of the submissions dedicated a little more space than I think is necessary, but had some great ideas on approaches for such use.

[cornholio]

I heard the winning submission under connecting the core was the Keep The Viaducts one. I dont have lots of time but I am trying to request the details of the vote count through a freedom of information request which I am predicting the city team will try to dodge. I recommend anyone with the time to do the same and get this information out. There is incredible corruption in municipal politics in our country and it has been getting to the point where officials are starting to be increasing blatant with their disregard for the law their constituents and democracy. Really its the residents that are partially at fault though by disregarding municipal politics and allowing it to get this far, and whats worse is that many people move later in to provincial and federal positions after learning to not give a shit about the people they are supposed to serve.

Its good to shine the light on these instances, I know there are a few journalists on this site and I think it would incredibly worth your while to dig deeper in to this because it would likely expose a trail of corruption and surprise lots of people what goes on in municipal politics. Certainly a issue the newspapers could ride for a long time(if their willing to cut their ties with certain groups).

[p78hub]

It still amazes me how Robertson and co. can get reelected even though they've done very little that is actually beneficial to the city. If they do end up getting the viaducts torn down early, it'll just reaffirm my belief that Vision is only capable of running the city into the ground.