Time for Vancouver to Tear Down Its Viaducts?

[jlousa]

Meggs will just be more detemined to prove them wrong now.

[WBC]

I have no doubt that in the end the viaducts can be taken down given the appropriate improvements in transit and road infrastructure.

However, it better be that we are doing this to make something special and not just make more lame Yaletown cheap glass cookie-cutter condos (and yes they are cheap they just sell them for a lot of money). And it better be that they build proper infrastructure for people living there so that the residents don't have to drive their kids to schools and daycares outside downtown.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Smooth

Meggs' latest blog entitled "OMG, how will I get downtown?":

http://www.geoffmeggs.ca/2011/11/23/...both-viaducts/

Meggs' bias as a former Strathcona resident (sorry Alex) has been plain since the beginning. And quite frankly there's more than a little Vancouver-centric arrogance in thinking Translink will dole out transit improvements to cater to this pet project of Visions, when communities south of the Fraser are in real need of Translink's attention.

[Sir Conga]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Meggs' bias as a former Strathcona resident (sorry Alex) has been plain since the beginning. And quite frankly there's more than a little Vancouver-centric arrogance in thinking Translink will dole out transit improvements to cater to this pet project of Visions, when communities south of the Fraser are in real need of Translink's attention.

Bias? Where do you see that in his post?

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Meggs' bias as a former Strathcona resident (sorry Alex) has been plain since the beginning. And quite frankly there's more than a little Vancouver-centric arrogance in thinking Translink will dole out transit improvements to cater to this pet project of Visions, when communities south of the Fraser are in real need of Translink's attention.

I've only lived here for a year and a bit, and in this neighbourhood I stick out like a sore thumb. No vintage clothing, no fixie bike obsession, don't eat exclusively organic, don't vote NDP/Green. We posted a craigslist ad last week looking for a room mate and 3 of 3 taught or listed yoga as one of their favourite activities. Here I am used to living in a house of 9 engineers.

[Canadian Mind]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

I've only lived here for a year and a bit, and in this neighbourhood I stick out like a sore thumb. No vintage clothing, no fixie bike obsession, don't eat exclusively organic, don't vote NDP/Green. We posted a craigslist ad last week looking for a room mate and 3 of 3 taught or listed yoga as one of their favourite activities. Here I am used to living in a house of 9 engineers.

Here's an idea. Next SSP meet lets throw a party in your backyard, steaks and ribs and deep fried turkey, beer for everyone, lots of loud noises and rock 'n roll music... Someone got a shotgun they could bring so we can shoot the empties off of fence posts? Maybe we can get Towerguy3 to pay for the steaks if we could ever find him!

[Alex Mackinnon]

Heh, you make it sound like I've got a backyard. 25' x 120' lot, 3 suites in the main house and a laneway house.

My last place around here was a house on a 25'x50' lot, nothing but a lane for open space.

Any target shooting would be point blank.

[deasine]

Plans envision transformation of viaduct lands
FRANCES BULA

Vancouver is developing detailed options for the land around its downtown viaducts – if those major commuter connections are eventually torn down – that include public open space, low-cost housing, business projects, or a combination.

In a sign of how seriously the city is considering the ultimate removal of the viaducts, the land-use plans, being worked on jointly by the architecture firm Perkins + Will with city planners, were going to be presented at a city urban-design panel next week. That presentation has now been cancelled and pushed to an undefined later date, but only in order to incorporate ideas from the city’s parallel design competition on the viaducts. Awards for the best ideas will be announced on Dec. 1.

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City planner Brent Toderian said there are some themes coming forward among the designs in the competition that might be included, like ideas about including water features in this former tidal-flats area.

Ultimately, though, it’s the detailed planning being done by the city and its consultants that is setting the stage for what use to make of the 4.8 hectares that are under and around the viaducts.

The city plans are looking at how the land could be used under several different scenarios: leaving the viaducts as is; altering the eastern end to bring them down to street level at Main; closing one viaduct or another; keeping the viaducts but converting them to other, non-car uses.

“Council could decide to make it open space. It could be social housing. It could be rental housing,” said Mr. Toderian. “And, if it’s sold, it may not all be to one developer.”

A previous engineering report had said closing both viaducts – they’re 822 and 670 metres in length – if council chose that option, would not be feasible for at least 15 years. That’s because better transit and alternative truck and car routes would need to be put in place.

The city owns almost all of the land under and around the viaducts – 4.1 hectares – and Concord Pacific owns the small amount remaining. That’s about half the size of the Olympic Village site.

There’s been a perception among some that the proposal to tear down the viaducts is some kind of giveaway to Concord Pacific, the mega-developer that has built thousands of units on the former industrial land of False Creek since Expo 86.

But since the city owns most of the land, the real question is what it could do with that land, if the viaducts were fully or partially removed, that’s of most value.

Even if the city did nothing but alter the eastern end of the viaducts to bring them down at Main Street, something that its engineering consultants said would be easy to do immediately, that would free up two huge blocks of city land next to Chinatown that could be developed into housing – what that land was used for before the viaducts were built.

The city’s detailed land-use planning with Perkins + Will has been proceeding quietly – so quietly that even Vision Councillor Geoff Meggs, who has been seen as the public champion of reconsidering the viaducts’ future, was surprised to hear it was going on.

Mr. Meggs said he’s waiting to hear about the design-competition winners Dec. 1 and how the planning department will mesh those ideas with its existing consultation.

But, he said, it’s clear to him that the public will not support doing anything different with the viaducts unless they’re persuaded that there won’t be a negative impact on transportation or that it isn’t just a bonus for some developer.

But, most important, he said, “Not a lot of people are very interested if there isn’t a big benefit to the public.”

That benefit could be more open space or more affordable housing.

Mr. Meggs said some of the stakeholders in the area – landowners like Concord Pacific and Aquilini Developments – as well as neighbourhood groups need to get involved in the debate about the viaducts’ future.

(via The Globe and Mail)

[Alex Mackinnon]

Voting is now over, so you can see who was behind each proposal.

It looks like Larry Beasley and friends were behind one of the fancier proposals. Not too many other big names that I know. AECOM was behind one of the submittals in the wildcard category.

Beasley + Pals

So far the most discussed post is the giant font one with "Please, leave the viaducts as they are." I have no idea how long I would be rolling on the floor laughing for if that wins the people choice award.

Taking bets for Thursday?

[red-paladin]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Voting is now over, so you can see who was behind each proposal.

It looks like Larry Beasley and friends were behind one of the fancier proposals. Not too many other big names that I know. AECOM was behind one of the submittals in the wildcard category.

Beasley + Pals

I have to admit... that's an intriguing proposal.

[dreambrother808]

Agreed. That was one of my favourites by far.

[Alex Mackinnon]

It's still pretty amusing to see Beasley initially suggest the competition then enter with such a stacked team compared to the rest of the competitors.

Oh well, it's a beautifully made proposal.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Voting is now over, so you can see who was behind each proposal.

It looks like Larry Beasley and friends were behind one of the fancier proposals. Not too many other big names that I know. AECOM was behind one of the submittals in the wildcard category.

Beasley + Pals

So far the most discussed post is the giant font one with "Please, leave the viaducts as they are." I have no idea how long I would be rolling on the floor laughing for if that wins the people choice award.

Taking bets for Thursday?

Some of the comments make me laugh, like the ones from "Rex":

Most people who live near the viaducts and see how they are used realize that we will be better off without them. It is true that Pender and Main Streets were backed up when the viaducts were closed, but that was because every major transportation artery on the west side of False Creek was closed as well (Pacific, Expo, Quebec was restricted access and on and on). In the end, it was amazing that there were no traffic problems any more serious than an extra 15 minutes wait on Main.

Apparently Rex has never been on the viaducts on a game night, or contemplated what an extra 15 minutes of travel time on Main equates to in emissions .

[osirisboy]

The beasley proposal is interesting but jesus we dont need that much park space!!! I just dont think the population is high enough for that amount of park. As of now whenever I pass by Andy Livingston park its empty except for the homeless crackheads. The two parcels east of main that Beasley has as parks would just end up being a place for the homeless to sleep and shoot up. Parks become a huge detriment if theres noone there to actually use them.

[idunno]

It even involves raising the skytrain tracks behind the buildings. Pretty cool.

[Zassk]

Sheer pie-in-the-sky nonsense. Who could justify rebuilding a perfectly good SkyTrain guideway. There is no money to even expand transit to compensate for the loss of the viaducts, and they want to spend taxpayer money on that?

I hope Vancouverites realize that tearing out roads is not going to coerce the region into prioritizing a Hastings transit line.

[wrenegade]

I have to say I was intrigued by that proposal as well but it looks like a net loss of land/space/density for Concord Pacific. How would they feel about that? Unless those 5 buildings are all 30+ storeys, which I find hard to believe. I also agree that that is an insane amount of park space. I will say that it seemed like the road network realignment looks pretty good though.

[officedweller]

Another "cool" aspect of the Dialog/Beasley proposal is that the condo towers sit over top of the Expo Line and the Dunsmuir ramp to Expo Blvd.
I agree that there's too much parkspace and that the water links/canal is not feasible due to contaminated soils. Note though, that the overhead view is misleading, as rooftop greenspace/green roofs appears green as if it were parkland.

The curving slab condos look cool too, but would cast long shaodows over Andy Livingstone Park and Chinatown.

[Stingray2004]

Again, I say, what a complete waste of time and resources that this exercise is. Just found this map of AADT traffic levels in conjunction with the viaducts but, unfortunately, sans Terminal Ave.

At the junction of Main St./the viaducts the AADT is 42,000 and north of there along Main St. the AADT substantially decreases to 18,000 whereby one can interpret that 24,000 AADT flows southward on/off the viaducts and a further 30,000 AADT continue eastward/westward along Prior/Venables over the 'ducts.

That's ~54,000 AADT utilizing the 'ducts in terms of traffic flow.

With the 'ducts gone that ~54,000 will likely channel into Expo/Pacific Blvd. as the next path of 'least resistance'.Talk about the future "liveability" of NE False Creek.

And I haven't even mentioned that another 1 million people will be residing in Metro Vancouver over the next 30+ years and many will also arrive in downtown Vancouver by vehicle. Just wish that Van City wasn't "so provincial" in its transportation outlook and took a more "strategic" view thereto.



Source: http://sunnvancouver.files.wordpress...icplotting.jpg

[Alex Mackinnon]

One thing I've noticed is that in almost all proposals this little building is gone.

Anyone know what it is? It's not a hydro building or skytrain substation according to on of my friends who worked for Hydro.

Is it a natural gas pumping station?