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  #161  
Old Posted May 12, 2014, 3:02 PM
AverageJoe AverageJoe is offline
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The question is how the rails will handle a potential doubling of container traffic. The south shore is jammed as it is.

There is talk about Pacific Grain Elevators expanding their operations and possible reactivate their third annex. Glencore has plenty of money to dump into it and they want that terminal to be able to handle more than just specialty crops. There is also talk about Alliance Grain wanting to double their capacity with a faster gallery to load the ships, and a much faster way to unload the trains than using the switcher. Columbia Containers has seen more activity than ever.

I had talked with the railroad managers and they simply don't have the locomotives, railcars, and personnel to keep up with the traffic. The supply chain from our port is a mess. There is a 3000+ grain hopper backlog as of last month (since sometime last year) with grain sitting in the prairies. Last month there was (not sure if there still is) a major lumber car backlog which is causing grief for the wood and lumber industry. They are both competing with oil producers and containers. Shipping companies are hemorrhaging money just waiting to load their ships.

I'd really like to see how the transport infrastructure is going to keep up with terminal expansion, or we're going to see some very unsatisfied customers.
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  #162  
Old Posted May 12, 2014, 3:47 PM
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The Powell st overpass will allow for increased usage of the existing rail tracks. There are also many more upgrades being planned but unfortunately I can't discuss at this time.
Interesting one non-rail based upgrade was just picked up by the local papers this week about plans to dredge the second narrows but the plan was postponed because of water tunnels in the way which won't be upgrade by Metro Vancouver until ~2020 a few years after they expect the pipeline upgrades to be done. This will require that the tankers only be filled to 85% capacity to make it thru the narrows until the dredging is completed.
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  #163  
Old Posted May 12, 2014, 3:55 PM
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Why are there cruise ships that use Ballantyne in the first place. If they plan on consolidating cruise ship to Canada place why haven't they done that years ago?? I had thought they used Ballantyne because Canada place was at capacity
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  #164  
Old Posted May 12, 2014, 4:14 PM
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aberdeen5698 aberdeen5698 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlousa View Post
The Powell st overpass will allow for increased usage of the existing rail tracks.
Can you explain why that will be? The overpass will facilitate traffic from the BN interchange, but I didn't think there was a lot of traffic on that segment. Are there plans to increase that?

One of the things I've never quite understood about the Powell Street overpass is that while it will eliminate the level crossing on Powell Street it does nothing for the one on Venables, so it's not like they've solved the problem of dwelling trains.
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  #165  
Old Posted May 12, 2014, 4:27 PM
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Summary of the changes:

Quote:
PMV has announced plans to increase the capacity at Centerm Container Terminal, from approximately 900,000 TEU to between 1.5-to-1.8 million TEU by in 2018. The proposed project includes extending the Centerm berth to the west, filling in the land behind the berth, and a number of changes within the existing terminal footprint including reconfiguration of the container yard, extension of the intermodal rail yard, new terminal truck in-gates and a multi-storey parking structure. The project is designed to addresses near-term capacity constraints within PMV and does not impact the proposed Roberts Bank Container Terminal 2 Project which, if approved, will come on line in the 2020’s. Latest forecast data continues to indicate that container capacity demand through Canada’s west coast will more than double over the next 10 to 15 years.
http://www.cosbc.ca/index.php/local/...plan-announced

Roberts Bank will be 2.4 million TEUs along with 600,000 more at Deltaport.
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  #166  
Old Posted May 12, 2014, 5:06 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aberdeen5698 View Post
Can you explain why that will be? The overpass will facilitate traffic from the BN interchange, but I didn't think there was a lot of traffic on that segment. Are there plans to increase that?

One of the things I've never quite understood about the Powell Street overpass is that while it will eliminate the level crossing on Powell Street it does nothing for the one on Venables, so it's not like they've solved the problem of dwelling trains.
Here's the PMV link for the project - it's likely an incremental improvement with Venables to be resolved when and if a Malkin Connector (with rail overpass) is built (i.e. Venables might be dead-ended if a Malkin Connector is built)

http://www.portmetrovancouver.com/en...TradeArea.aspx

And the South Shore Trade Area Study (there's a nice lower mainland rail map on page 39):

http://www.portmetrovancouver.com/do...t.pdf?sfvrsn=2
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  #167  
Old Posted May 15, 2014, 9:29 PM
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aberdeen5698 aberdeen5698 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
Here's the PMV link for the project - it's likely an incremental improvement with Venables to be resolved when and if a Malkin Connector (with rail overpass) is built (i.e. Venables might be dead-ended if a Malkin Connector is built)
Thanks for the link. The information in there is pretty vague, though. There must be some real benefit, otherwise I can't see why they'd spend so much money on the overpass. And the benefit must be in running more trains, or in the flexibility to allow the trains to dwell or be longer without worrying about obstructing traffic.
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  #168  
Old Posted May 19, 2014, 12:54 AM
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Business in Vancouver: Sea change is coming in international container trade
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By Timothy Renshaw
Fri May 16, 2014 2:46pm PST

...
Along with the Port of Prince Rupert, PMV is drawing a lot of Asian container traffic north at the expense of its nearest competitor: Seattle-Tacoma.


According to the United States-based Journal of Commerce (JOC), which specializes in global trade and transportation, Seattle-Tacoma’s share of the containerized shipping market along the North American West Coast dropped to 11.7% in 2013 from 12.6% in 2011. During the same period, Vancouver-Prince Rupert’s market share increased to 14.8% from 13.5%. Los Angeles-Long Beach got the lion’s share of container traffic at 63.7% both in 2011 and 2013.

...

PMV shippers have become extremely adept at filling containers that would otherwise head back to Asia empty with B.C. commodities like lumber and wood pulp.

In southern California about 20% to 25% of containers are sent back to Asia empty; in Vancouver it’s closer to 10%. Being able to send back full containers lowers the overall costs.

The new rates, however, could alter this.

The viability of shipping commodities via container is cost-based, and the cost of the truckers’ agreement, when implemented, will be “huge … a game-changer,” said Ian May, chairman of Western Canadian Shippers Coalition, which represents companies and associations involved in the transportation of Canadian natural resource-based products like lumber, coal, pulp and paper, wheat and sulphur.

Simply put, said May, the deal, which includes a 12% increase in truckers’ trip rates and raises the per-trip fuel surcharge to $19 from $8, will double the labour costs of using containers to ship lumber, plywood and pulp offshore. B.C.’s forest industry currently accounts for roughly 80% of container exports through PMV.

...
For example, in 1970 a container clause was agreed to in the contract between the BCMEA and the ILWU that required containers destined for Vancouver to be packed and/or unpacked on the dock by unionized longshore workers. But containerization has radically changed over the years and it has largely eliminated the need to pack or unpack goods on the docks.

So employers wanted to kill the clause. Shippers and container shipping lines also disliked the requirement that containers heading for other destinations be opened and de-stuffed on the waterfront.


In 1985’s ILWU and BCMEA contract negotiations, the union said if employers wanted to eliminate the container clause they would have to guarantee all B.C. longshoremen 40 hours of work per week.

Employers rejected the proposal.

Government legislation eventually eliminated the contentious clause in 1987 and replaced it with a per-container contribution to the union’s pension fund, which now adds up to around $30 million per year. The BCMEA estimates that since the container clause was eliminated, the Container Gainshare Fund contribution has added $318 million to the ILWU’s pension plan and a further $91 million to the ship and dock foremen’s pension plan.

...

After more than four years of planning and construction, GCT Global recently opened Global Terminal, a new semi-automated facility in the Port of New York and New Jersey.

GCT Global’s overhaul and expansion will double the U.S. container terminal’s capacity using a relatively small footprint, Edwards said.

In L.A.-Long Beach, one of Port Metro Vancouver’s main competitors, an estimated US$1.2 billion is being invested in enlarging Long Beach Container Terminal, rechristening it Middle Harbor Terminal and outfitting it with container automation.

According to Edwards, GCT Global will introduce technology to its Vancouver operations as required, but has no immediate plans to bring its New York-New Jersey terminal automation to Vancouver.

...

Port Metro Vancouver’s proposed three-berth Terminal 2 expansion at Roberts Bank, which will provide annual capacity for an estimated 2.4 million 20-foot equivalent units to meet what the port estimates will be a doubling of container traffic over the next decade, is envisioned as a semi-automated, state-of-the-art terminal.

...

One advantage Port Metro Vancouver (PMV) has is that it is “big-ship-ready,” according to Stephen Edwards, president and CEO of GCT Global Container Terminals Inc., whose subsidiary TSI Terminal Systems Inc. operates PMV’s Vanterm and Deltaport terminals.

Shipping companies have built large ships expecting to go through the Panama Canal, which isn’t ready to accommodate them, said Walter Kemmsies, the New-York-based chief economist at Moffatt & Nichol, a major port engineering and consulting firm that also has an office in Vancouver.

The largest container vessels can now carry anywhere from 18,000 to 20,100 TEUs (20-foot equivalent units) – enough to fill a train 77 kilometres long. Those ships travel where?

They service the busiest global container shipping trade routes, which run between Asia and Europe, and have the largest and most efficient and automated container terminals, like Rotterdam.

But the next-largest vessels can carry 8,000 to 10,000 TEUs, and Vancouver’s harbour has the depth of water needed to accommodate those ships, Edwards said.

...

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  #169  
Old Posted May 19, 2014, 3:22 AM
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Klazu Klazu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AverageJoe View Post
I had talked with the railroad managers and they simply don't have the locomotives, railcars, and personnel to keep up with the traffic. There is a 3000+ grain hopper backlog as of last month (since sometime last year) with grain sitting in the prairies. Last month there was (not sure if there still is) a major lumber car backlog which is causing grief for the wood and lumber industry. They are both competing with oil producers and containers. Shipping companies are hemorrhaging money just waiting to load their ships.
I just had personal experience from the locomotive/railcar shortage when I had to wait over 5 weeks for my new car to cross the country rails.
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  #170  
Old Posted May 19, 2014, 8:59 PM
spaceprobe spaceprobe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osirisboy View Post
Why are there cruise ships that use Ballantyne in the first place. If they plan on consolidating cruise ship to Canada place why haven't they done that years ago?? I had thought they used Ballantyne because Canada place was at capacity
Does Canada Place have the capacity to remain competitive and attract new ships?
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  #171  
Old Posted May 19, 2014, 9:09 PM
spm2013 spm2013 is offline
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Originally Posted by spaceprobe View Post
Does Canada Place have the capacity to remain competitive and attract new ships?
Ballantyne only serves 4% of cruise ship traffic currently.
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  #172  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2014, 10:19 PM
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Bloomberg: Seattle and Tacoma Ports Team Up to Vie With Canada Hubs

Quote:
The ports of Seattle and Tacoma, Washington, said they will unify management of marine cargo terminals amid heightened competition from Canadian gateways.

The alliance will oversee investments, operations, planning and marketing at cargo terminals, the ports said in a joint statement today.

“We’ll be able to plan our investments in port infrastructure strategically,” Stephanie Bowman, co-president of the Port of Seattle Commission, said at a news conference in Renton, Washington. This will help the ports “meet demand without overbuilding.”

The ports of Seattle and Tacoma began talks this year on finding ways to work together to attract more shipping to Washington’s Puget Sound. The effort follows volume gains in Vancouver and Prince Rupert, British Columbia, at the expense of some U.S. ports.

“They’re eating our lunch,” U.S. Representative Jim McDermott, a Democrat from Washington, said in an interview yesterday. He said he’s long been an advocate of closer cooperation between the Tacoma and Seattle ports. “That should have happened 30 years ago.”

Volume at the Port of Seattle dropped 26 percent from 2010 to 2013 to 1.6 million standard containers, or 20-foot equivalent units, known as TEUs, according to its website. The Port of Tacoma’s volume is almost unchanged since 2008, at about 1.9 million TEUs.
...
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  #174  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2014, 1:25 AM
casper casper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spm2013 View Post
Ballantyne only serves 4% of cruise ship traffic currently.
It only occurs during the start and end of the cruise ship season due to a silly US regulation.

All the cruise lines have there ships registered in countries with flags of convenience. The end result is cruise lines can not offer transportation between US ports. When they bring the ships that home port in Seattle up from the Caribbean (and California) they have to sail to a Canadian port (usually Vancouver). They then operate a short 1-2 day cruise from Vancouver to Seattle. They spend the summer operating out of Seattle. At the end of the season they reverse the process.

Ballantyne is only used for a few days at the start of the cruise season and then again at the end of the cruise season.

Victoria and Nanaimo also have cruise ship terminals. The same reason all the cruise ships that home port in Seattle call in to Victoria for a few hours on each cruise. Having an international stop, turns it into an international journey and make it legal.
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  #175  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2014, 1:44 AM
Gordon Gordon is offline
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Starting in 2015 the cruise terminal will have additional martialling & check in space at the convention center(canada place} which should allieviate congestion issues.
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  #176  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2015, 10:40 PM
Pinion Pinion is offline
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Huge fire at DP World/Centerm right now. Hazmat teams sent in.


@jaknew
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  #177  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2015, 11:15 PM
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Sounds like a chemical fire. Yikes
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  #178  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2015, 11:23 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Friend who works at the port says it's batteries. Not sure I even trust him, but it's a bad fire either way.
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  #179  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2015, 12:27 AM
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^That seems presumptive. Even the guys who work there don't know what's in each container.

Also RIP east van, it's been a blast

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  #180  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2015, 12:38 AM
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Klazu Klazu is offline
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So that's where my robo vacuum Chinese replacement batteries are at...
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