HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #6481  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2014, 2:34 AM
dleung dleung is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dleung
Trump would have been a decent building...

...if completed in 1989.
You're assuming building design has gotten more attractive since then. It's argue that it's gone down hill with only a few recent designs giving one hope that we're back on the uptick.
Postmodern is generally seen as a step backwards both functionally and architecturally, but I guess it's the closest thing to art deco for a skyscraper fanboy who romanticizes pre-Giuliani Manhattan.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6482  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2014, 5:05 AM
isaidso isaidso is offline
The New Republic
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: United Provinces of America
Posts: 8,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by dleung View Post
Postmodern is generally seen as a step backwards both functionally and architecturally, but I guess it's the closest thing to art deco for a skyscraper fanboy who romanticizes pre-Giuliani Manhattan.
Oh brother. I didn't peg you for someone who simply lapped up what the conventional wisdom of the day fed you. I guess I was wrong. And don't pretend for a second you have any clue what I value and what I don't. You're way off base... as usual.

Not sure why you continue to make sweeping conclusions about people you've never met, but if you must.
__________________
World's First Documented Baseball Game: Beachville, Ontario, June 4th, 1838.
World's First Documented Gridiron Game: University College, Toronto, November 9th, 1861.
Hamilton Tiger-Cats since 1869 & Toronto Argonauts since 1873: North America's 2 oldest pro football teams
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6483  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2014, 5:18 AM
isaidso isaidso is offline
The New Republic
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: United Provinces of America
Posts: 8,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spocket View Post
All I see are glass boxes and people use terms like "sexy" to describe them. I don't know if this indicates a lack of imagination on their part or my own inability to see a glass box as anything other than a glass box. I will concede that street level presences are definitely better and bases in general.

The general argument goes that "they can't all be gems" which I understand and agree with. The thing is that I don't point out that it's a glass box until after the usual fawning about how graceful some new box looks. What I don't get is why we can't throw a little ornamentation in every now and again. Or at least some sort of color scheme.
I'm a fan of Mies and Philip Johnson, but find the Canadian tendency to use terms like sexy to describe sterile featureless building after building truly bizarre. I appreciate minimalism, but I also see the value in architectural diversity in our built form. This isn't 1900 Paris nor would I ever desire such architectural uniformity. Paris is beautiful, but quickly becomes very predictable.... and inevitably boring.

Standard Canadian tastes often leave me exasperated. Would you like that in beige or beige? There's also a tendency here to argue that anything that veers from minimalism is instantly gaudy and equivalent to Dubai vulgarity. Do these people really see the world so black and white and blind to all the wonderful design that modern architecture is capable of?

Dubai is gaudy to me, but standard Canadian tastes are the absolute other extreme. Are they trying to bore me to death? A happy medium and some creative effort please. Modern design offers so many possibilities yet people here seem to limit themselves to 1% of what's out there. Is it laziness, ignorance, or a lot of both? Of maybe foreigners are right and we're just painfully boring.
__________________
World's First Documented Baseball Game: Beachville, Ontario, June 4th, 1838.
World's First Documented Gridiron Game: University College, Toronto, November 9th, 1861.
Hamilton Tiger-Cats since 1869 & Toronto Argonauts since 1873: North America's 2 oldest pro football teams

Last edited by isaidso; Aug 27, 2014 at 5:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6484  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2014, 12:12 PM
Spocket's Avatar
Spocket Spocket is offline
Keep yo pimp hand strong
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Changchun , China
Posts: 2,777
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
I'm a fan of Mies and Philip Johnson, but find the Canadian tendency to use terms like sexy to describe sterile featureless building after building truly bizarre. I appreciate minimalism, but I also see the value in architectural diversity in our built form. This isn't 1900 Paris nor would I ever desire such architectural uniformity. Paris is beautiful, but quickly becomes very predictable.... and inevitably boring.

Standard Canadian tastes often leave me exasperated. Would you like that in beige or beige? There's also a tendency here to argue that anything that veers from minimalism is instantly gaudy and equivalent to Dubai vulgarity. Do these people really see the world so black and white and blind to all the wonderful design that modern architecture is capable of?

Dubai is gaudy to me, but standard Canadian tastes are the absolute other extreme. Are they trying to bore me to death? A happy medium and some creative effort please. Modern design offers so many possibilities yet people here seem to limit themselves to 1% of what's out there. Is it laziness, ignorance, or a lot of both? Of maybe foreigners are right and we're just painfully boring.
Actually, you said what I was thinking better than I could have.

I don't know why we can't create distinctly Canadian architecture. A lot can be done with a box if that's what makes the most sense (as it usually does) There's no need to copy anybody else and that rarely works out anyway.

All I know is that if I see another poster around here praising another glass box by calling it sexy or beautiful I will just have to assume that that individual doesn't know what those words actually mean.
__________________
Giving you a reason to drink and drive since 1975.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6485  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2014, 2:13 PM
Beedok Beedok is offline
Exiled Hamiltonian
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,398
A glass box can be done very nicely. Also most of the buildings given praise aren't simple glass boxes and have a degree of patterning. I think people air on the side of minimalism because too much is much less pleasant on the eyes than too little.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6486  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2014, 2:44 PM
WhipperSnapper's Avatar
WhipperSnapper WhipperSnapper is offline
I am the law!
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Toronto+
Posts: 16,725
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
I'm a fan of Mies and Philip Johnson, but find the Canadian tendency to use terms like sexy to describe sterile featureless building after building truly bizarre. I appreciate minimalism, but I also see the value in architectural diversity in our built form. This isn't 1900 Paris nor would I ever desire such architectural uniformity. Paris is beautiful, but quickly becomes very predictable.... and inevitably boring.

Standard Canadian tastes often leave me exasperated. Would you like that in beige or beige? There's also a tendency here to argue that anything that veers from minimalism is instantly gaudy and equivalent to Dubai vulgarity. Do these people really see the world so black and white and blind to all the wonderful design that modern architecture is capable of?

Dubai is gaudy to me, but standard Canadian tastes are the absolute other extreme. Are they trying to bore me to death? A happy medium and some creative effort please. Modern design offers so many possibilities yet people here seem to limit themselves to 1% of what's out there. Is it laziness, ignorance, or a lot of both? Of maybe foreigners are right and we're just painfully boring.
Are you oblivious to what is being built around you? Condos are build on a tight budget here for a mid market crowd so any architectural statement will ultimately be of the cheapest quality. We're just seeing curtain wall. I don't know why people obsess about the minimalistic designs in Toronto produced by the like of aA (which can be both repetitive or higihly creative dependent on the client) when they are easily outnumbered by the tackiest inspirations that would make even Dubai blush. We have a cruise ship docked at Bayview and Sheppard!

I somewhat expect more from these forums than " boxes" too. It's a term you expect from some random person walking down the street that needs some flamboyance to convince themselves good from bad and has little interest in knowing more. It's sad that an aA designed "box" gets lumped together with a Burka designed "box".

The same applies to height as well. Forumers adamantly refuse to learn the effects of more height and more height even by mocking those that do.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6487  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2014, 2:55 PM
geotag277 geotag277 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
The same applies to height as well. Forumers adamantly refuse to learn the effects of more height and more height even by mocking those that do.
Very tall/Supertall structures don't make a ton of financial sense to build in Canada (yes, including Toronto), therefore we need to choose between a well designed but shorter tower and a slapped together larger tower. I think Vancouver does the best job at this compromise.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6488  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2014, 2:57 PM
Martin Mtl's Avatar
Martin Mtl Martin Mtl is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,509
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
I'm a fan of Mies and Philip Johnson, but find the Canadian tendency to use terms like sexy to describe sterile featureless building after building truly bizarre. I appreciate minimalism, but I also see the value in architectural diversity in our built form. This isn't 1900 Paris nor would I ever desire such architectural uniformity. Paris is beautiful, but quickly becomes very predictable.... and inevitably boring.

Standard Canadian tastes often leave me exasperated. Would you like that in beige or beige? There's also a tendency here to argue that anything that veers from minimalism is instantly gaudy and equivalent to Dubai vulgarity. Do these people really see the world so black and white and blind to all the wonderful design that modern architecture is capable of?

Dubai is gaudy to me, but standard Canadian tastes are the absolute other extreme. Are they trying to bore me to death? A happy medium and some creative effort please. Modern design offers so many possibilities yet people here seem to limit themselves to 1% of what's out there. Is it laziness, ignorance, or a lot of both? Of maybe foreigners are right and we're just painfully boring.
You have to have a very superficial knowledge of Paris to say that the built form is predictable and boring. Really.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6489  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2014, 4:01 AM
Spocket's Avatar
Spocket Spocket is offline
Keep yo pimp hand strong
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Changchun , China
Posts: 2,777
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post

I somewhat expect more from these forums than " boxes" too. It's a term you expect from some random person walking down the street that needs some flamboyance to convince themselves good from bad and has little interest in knowing more. It's sad that an aA designed "box" gets lumped together with a Burka designed "box".
So basically what you're saying is that architects are designing buildings for other architects.

That's a fair bit of snobbery right there. "Lay people" have just as much right to call a boring box a boring box. I don't really care if you can look at it and say "But look at how the floor plate on this building has a slightly different corner on the one side compared to the floor plate on that building." That's the sort of thing that only somebody in the business would either notice or care about.

Furthermore, how many people here have anything particularly good to say about commie blocks ? I'm betting that it's a pretty low number. If I had to guess why that's the case I'd wager that it's because commie blocks are completely uninspired duplicates that serve a utilitarian purpose. What else is there to say about them ? The original point wasn't that there's no place for boring boxes but rather that it's difficult to understand how anybody can look at one and go "Oh ! It's so sleek and sexy and fits in perfectly with the surroundings. It's a masterpiece." It's just a glass box and just because some architectural star designed it doesn't make it look look any different for 99.9% of the people who are going to have to look at it for the next 80 years.
__________________
Giving you a reason to drink and drive since 1975.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6490  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2014, 6:05 AM
isaidso isaidso is offline
The New Republic
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: United Provinces of America
Posts: 8,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Mtl View Post
You have to have a very superficial knowledge of Paris to say that the built form is predictable and boring. Really.
I like visiting Paris, but much prefer the mash up present in the north American built form.... even if it's uglier. When you know exactly what the next block is going to look like without ever being there before it does become predictable. That might not be your definition of boring, but I certainly find that boring.
__________________
World's First Documented Baseball Game: Beachville, Ontario, June 4th, 1838.
World's First Documented Gridiron Game: University College, Toronto, November 9th, 1861.
Hamilton Tiger-Cats since 1869 & Toronto Argonauts since 1873: North America's 2 oldest pro football teams
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6491  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2014, 6:11 AM
isaidso isaidso is offline
The New Republic
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: United Provinces of America
Posts: 8,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spocket View Post
Actually, you said what I was thinking better than I could have.

I don't know why we can't create distinctly Canadian architecture. A lot can be done with a box if that's what makes the most sense (as it usually does) There's no need to copy anybody else and that rarely works out anyway.

All I know is that if I see another poster around here praising another glass box by calling it sexy or beautiful I will just have to assume that that individual doesn't know what those words actually mean.
The problem is that there are so many people who do find those soul less buildings 'sexy'. As long as lots of people do, developers will continue to build them.

There's a lot we do right so I try to focus on the positives. I do sense that we're starting to veer away from our traditionalist/conservative bent so I'm hopeful for the future. That 45 Bay proposal is gorgeous! Hopefully we'll head more in that direction going forward. If I have to look at another Bay-Adelaide I'll just lose it.
__________________
World's First Documented Baseball Game: Beachville, Ontario, June 4th, 1838.
World's First Documented Gridiron Game: University College, Toronto, November 9th, 1861.
Hamilton Tiger-Cats since 1869 & Toronto Argonauts since 1873: North America's 2 oldest pro football teams
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6492  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2014, 7:19 AM
suburbanite's Avatar
suburbanite suburbanite is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,090
Jesus Christ, it's the same conversation every month. Can we just make a sticky that describes basic real estate finance and direct these discussions there?
__________________
Discontented suburbanite since 1994
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6493  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2014, 3:31 AM
caltrane74's Avatar
caltrane74 caltrane74 is offline
gettin' rich!
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 33,919
U Condos - Construction Update

__________________
Bangkok-Pattaya 2019
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6494  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2014, 8:21 PM
caltrane74's Avatar
caltrane74 caltrane74 is offline
gettin' rich!
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 33,919
FIVE Condos



__________________
Bangkok-Pattaya 2019
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6495  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2014, 8:56 PM
suburbanite's Avatar
suburbanite suburbanite is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,090
If Five didn't have balconies it could easily pass as an office tower. I'll be very pleased with this one as long as the balconies blend in a bit better once they're cladded.
__________________
Discontented suburbanite since 1994
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6496  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2014, 9:35 PM
Ramako's Avatar
Ramako Ramako is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,392
Quote:
Originally Posted by suburbanite View Post
If Five didn't have balconies it could easily pass as an office tower. I'll be very pleased with this one as long as the balconies blend in a bit better once they're cladded.
The balconies won't blend in at all. In fact they're intended to stand out. The exterior cladding on this tower is dark glass, whereas the balconies will be covered in white fritted glass:



http://liveindowntowntoronto.com/new...ts/five-condos
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6497  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 4:02 PM
caltrane74's Avatar
caltrane74 caltrane74 is offline
gettin' rich!
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 33,919
INDX Condo - 178 meters

Toronto Financial District

__________________
Bangkok-Pattaya 2019
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6498  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 4:13 PM
caltrane74's Avatar
caltrane74 caltrane74 is offline
gettin' rich!
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 33,919
Theatre Park - 157 meters

Toronto Entertainment District



__________________
Bangkok-Pattaya 2019
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6499  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2014, 4:18 PM
SkahHigh's Avatar
SkahHigh SkahHigh is offline
More transit please
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,267
^ Theatre Park would be terrific without the box at the top...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6500  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2014, 4:54 PM
caltrane74's Avatar
caltrane74 caltrane74 is offline
gettin' rich!
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 33,919
Hullmark Centre by Marcanadian at Urbantoronto






Streetscaping at Hullmark Centre in North York




__________________
Bangkok-Pattaya 2019
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:42 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.