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  #14861  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2018, 2:31 PM
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lio's political philosophy is more libertarian than it is Liberal or Conservative. He is not an extreme right winger. He believes in free speech and limited government but I am pretty sure he's a compassionate individual.

lio likes to play the Devil's advocate, and loves to play with people's preconceptions. I don't think he is a gaslighter (I had to look that one up).

If you can get suspended for being a Devil's advocate, then I think this speaks rather poorly of SSP (at least the Canada section). It makes me wonder about my own continued participation.

My main interest in SSP is following (and reporting on) development news in greater Moncton. I will continue with this (and will continue with politically benign Canada section topics like the weather thread), but unless lio's suspension is lifted expeditiously, you won't be hearing from me much in the Canada section.

I've been an SSP member for many years, and I've noticed that the number of active contributors to the Canada section has been continually decreasing, which is too bad because most people on here have interesting things to say, no matter their mother tongue, place of origin or political bent.

It makes you wonder why people are choosing to walk away from the Canada section. If enough intelligent people choose to leave, then SSP will end up being just another internet echo chamber.......
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  #14862  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2018, 3:14 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
lio's political philosophy is more libertarian than it is Liberal or Conservative. He is not an extreme right winger. He believes in free speech and limited government but I am pretty sure he's a compassionate individual.

lio likes to play the Devil's advocate, and loves to play with people's preconceptions. I don't think he is a gaslighter (I had to look that one up).

If you can get suspended for being a Devil's advocate, then I think this speaks rather poorly of SSP (at least the Canada section). It makes me wonder about my own continued participation...
Whether this was gaslighting or not, if what goes on here is that intolerable, I guess it's safe to say most people on here haven't had a really stressful intellectually argumentative "challenge" experience similar to, say, having to defend a thesis before a university's assessment board.
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  #14863  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2018, 3:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly View Post
Here I thought this thread was supposed to be about ugly ass architecture across our country. Instead I see it's just a display for how ugly this forum is.
Very much so. It's not worth reading anymore.
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  #14864  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2018, 3:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Whether this was gaslighting or not, if what goes on here is that intolerable, I guess it's safe to say most people on here haven't had a really stressful intellectually argumentative "challenge" experience similar to, say, having to defend a thesis before a university's assessment board.
Well, I can think of at least one university prof with multiple degrees who found it intollerable and left. It’s not about interesting intellectual debate anymore (I enjoy that). It’s about someone defending a blatantly obvious falsehood and acting like you’re the crazy one for pointing it out. It’s pointless and infuriating.
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  #14865  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2018, 3:31 PM
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Well, I can think of at least one university prof with multiple degrees who found it intollerable and left.
I can't speak for him but I don't believe he used the term gaslighting (or anything synonymous) when he left. Though yes he did complain loudly of the way things had evolved on the forum.

We all have our own reasons to stay or go.
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  #14866  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2018, 3:36 PM
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Nevermind.
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  #14867  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2018, 3:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Ontario1 View Post
Very much so. It's not worth reading anymore.
This thread began to go off the rails when people started posting allegedly "ugly" people, generally based on their political views and behaviour. Or often a combination of allegedly ugly opinions and aesthetics (again, in the latter case, a matter of opinion).

That's really what poisoned the well. (And while I didn't post anything like that, I admit to occasionally engaging in "egging on" that aspect of this thread.)

If people are truly honest, they'll also admit that many posters past and present who've bemoaned the declining level of debate on this thread also engaged quite actively and enthusiastically in the "human ugliness" angle here.

There is a saying in French: qui sème le vent récolte la tempête.

Basically if you seed with wind, you'll end up harvesting a storm.
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  #14868  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2018, 4:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
This thread began to go off the rails when people started posting allegedly "ugly" people, generally based on their political views and behaviour. Or often a combination of allegedly ugly opinions and aesthetics (again, in the latter case, a matter of opinion).

That's really what poisoned the well. (And while I didn't post anything like that, I admit to occasionally engaging in "egging on" that aspect of this thread.)

If people are truly honest, they'll also admit that many posters past and present who've bemoaned the declining level of debate on this thread also engaged quite actively and enthusiastically in the "human ugliness" angle here.

There is a saying in French: qui sème le vent récolte la tempête.

Basically if you seed with wind, you'll end up harvesting a storm.
That's part of it, but this thread has also had more than its share of ageism and economic prejudice (old age and poverty equated with "ugly").

Re the "saying", it's from the Bible: For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind Hosea 8:7
     
     
  #14869  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2018, 4:22 PM
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When was poverty equated with ugliness? As for ageism, there were jokes about retirees being trapped in Les Residences Soleil and about Doug Ford rallies mostly being attended by people with grey hair. Am I forgetting something?
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  #14870  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2018, 4:24 PM
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Originally Posted by O-tacular View Post
When was poverty equated with ugliness? As for ageism, there were jokes about retirees being trapped in Les Residences Soleil and about Doug Ford rallies mostly being attended by people with grey hair. Am I forgetting something?
Go back and review the thread. Examples are not hard to find.
     
     
  #14871  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2018, 5:26 PM
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Go back and review the thread. Examples are not hard to find.
Correct.

Most people don't even realize how even all of the "People of Walmart" stuff is actually rather nasty poverty-shaming.
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Ma vitre est un jardin de givre.
Ah! comme la neige a neigé!
Qu'est-ce que le spasme de vivre?

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  #14872  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2018, 5:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
lio's political philosophy is more libertarian than it is Liberal or Conservative. He is not an extreme right winger. He believes in free speech and limited government but I am pretty sure he's a compassionate individual.

lio likes to play the Devil's advocate, and loves to play with people's preconceptions. I don't think he is a gaslighter (I had to look that one up).

If you can get suspended for being a Devil's advocate, then I think this speaks rather poorly of SSP (at least the Canada section). It makes me wonder about my own continued participation.
If you're going to play the devil's advocate, it's best to know what a devil's advocate is. Otherwise you can easily cross into the devil's bagman territory. Lio was riding roughshod in devil's bagman territory.
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  #14873  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2018, 5:42 PM
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Poverty shaming, Acajack? What are you, an SJW?

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Lol!
Serious question: When Legault said that, at the Francophonie meeting in Yerevan, I'm assuming it was in French. Did the original French statement sound as oxymoronic as the English translation?
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  #14874  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2018, 5:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ontario1 View Post
Very much so. It's not worth reading anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty_Mcfly View Post
Here I thought this thread was supposed to be about ugly ass architecture across our country. Instead I see it's just a display for how ugly this forum is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-tacular View Post
When was poverty equated with ugliness? As for ageism, there were jokes about retirees being trapped in Les Residences Soleil and about Doug Ford rallies mostly being attended by people with grey hair. Am I forgetting something?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
Go back and review the thread. Examples are not hard to find.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Correct.

Most people don't even realize how even all of the "People of Walmart" stuff is actually rather nasty poverty-shaming.
Fair point. Will be on the watch out for that.
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