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  #5721  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2017, 4:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
This is true, but it's starting to change especially amongst the younger generation and more people are just calling it "417".



I know exactly what sign you're talking about! It's this one here and it's a real blast to the past:


Not only does it say "Queensway" with no mention of the 417 number at all... it's also in English only. Based on those two factors it probably dates back at least 40 years.. quite possibly to the original opening of the freeway in the 1960s. It's font is also different from every other highway sign in Ontario... must be whatever font was standard back then. Strange that it was never replaced.

I'm pretty sure that's the only sign in the city that still mentions "Queensway", though. There used to be on Lees Avenue until not too long ago, but it was recently replaced.
Did I miss something? Why are they killing the name "Queensway"?
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  #5722  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2017, 5:02 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Did I miss something? Why are they killing the name "Queensway"?
They're not killing it but they're definitely phasing it out. Probably not out of anti-monarchism (in case you we were worried ) but in the name of uniformity. The idea of not having two names commonly in use for the exact same road.

The name Queensway used to be all over the place as in "417 EAST Queensway" but new signs only have the number 417.

MTO also phased out the old "Macdonald-Cartier Freeway" name and signs for the 401, although they never got much traction in common speech among the general population.
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  #5723  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2017, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
This is true, but it's starting to change especially amongst the younger generation and more people are just calling it "417".



I know exactly what sign you're talking about! It's this one here and it's a real blast to the past:


Not only does it say "Queensway" with no mention of the 417 number at all... it's also in English only. Based on those two factors it probably dates back at least 40 years.. quite possibly to the original opening of the freeway in the 1960s. It's font is also different from every other highway sign in Ontario... must be whatever font was standard back then. Strange that it was never replaced.

I'm pretty sure that's the only sign in the city that still mentions "Queensway", though. There used to be on Lees Avenue until not too long ago, but it was recently replaced.
My Grandparents used to live in the Bayshore part of Nepean back in the 1970s and 1980s and right near the shopping centre. I specifically remember those two signs!!! I can remember as far back as the early 1980s and those signs were definitely there then. There have been so many changes around the shopping centre that I'm surprised that the signs are still there. The parking garage is so much bigger now! It used to be only two levels and only a fraction of what it is now.

Nepean was English-only until it was forced to join Ottawa in 2001. The former Ottawa-Carleton Region had bilingual signage but even the MTO (or MTC or whatever it was knows as) didn't put up bilingual signage until mid 1980s I believe.
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  #5724  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2017, 1:37 PM
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Ottawa et Fredericton annonceront 273 M$ pour la Route 11

PUBLIÉ IL Y A 13 MINUTES | Mis à jour il y a 11 minutes

Le gouvernement provincial a convié les médias en matinée pour deux annonces « importantes ». L’une à Bouctouche et l’autre à Miramichi. Des sources ont confirmé à Radio-Canada que la province et le fédéral injecteront au total 273 millions de dollars pour que la Route 11 soit doublée à quatre voies sur une distance de 20,6 km jusqu'au sud de la rivière de Bouctouche. Une voie d'évitement dans la région de Miramichi sera également construite.

Le premier ministre, Brian Gallant; le ministre des Transports et de l’Infrastructure, Bill Fraser; et le ministre fédéral des Pêches, des Océans et de La Garde côtière canadienne, Dominic LeBlanc, seront présents.

L’élargissement de la Route 11 est un sujet chaud au Nouveau-Brunswick depuis des décennies. Plusieurs gouvernements ont promis de l’élargir de Shediac jusqu’au nord de la province.

Le gouvernement progressiste-conservateur de Bernard Lord avait promis d'élargir la route à quatre voies sur 120 km. Les libéraux de Shawn Graham aussi.

En juillet 2015, la province avait annoncé des travaux allant jusqu’à 46,2 millions de dollars sur trois ans. Le gouvernement fédéral avait pour sa part annoncé un financement pouvant aller jusqu’à 27 millions de dollars.

En campagne électorale, tant les libéraux provinciaux de Brian Gallant que le Parti libéral du Canada ont promis un important projet d’infrastructure pour cette artère importante pour le développement économique du nord de la province.

En 2015, un rapport gouvernemental avançait que l'achalandage à certains endroits le long de la route est insuffisant pour justifier l'élargissement.

Même le plan du gouvernement progressiste-conservateur de David Alward de doubler la voie seulement de Shediac à Bouctouche, adopté par les libéraux de Brian Gallant, a été remis en question dans ce rapport.

Selon les études, la circulation dans les environs de Bouctouche s'élève à 7130 véhicules par jour, alors que le nombre nécessaire pour justifier une route à quatre voies est établi à 8000, selon les politiques du gouvernement.

http://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/...ur-la-route-11


Google translate version:

Quote:
The provincial government invited the media in the morning for two "important" announcements. One in Bouctouche and the other in Miramichi. Sources have confirmed to the CBC that the province and the federal government will inject a total of $ 273 million so that Route 11 will be doubled to four lanes for a distance of 20.6 km south of the Bouctouche River. A siding in the Miramichi area will also be constructed.

The Prime Minister, Brian Gallant; Transport and Infrastructure Minister Bill Fraser; And Dominic LeBlanc, Federal Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and Canadian Coast Guard.

The widening of Route 11 has been a hot topic in New Brunswick for decades. Several governments have promised to extend it from Shediac to the north of the province.

The Progressive Conservative government of Bernard Lord promised to extend the four-lane road for 120 km. The Liberals of Shawn Graham, too.

By July 2015, the province had announced up to $ 46.2 million over three years. The federal government had announced funding of up to $ 27 million.

During the election campaign, both the provincial Liberals of Brian Gallant and the Liberal Party of Canada promised a major infrastructure project for this important artery for the economic development of the north of the province.

In 2015, a government report argued that ridership at some places along the road is insufficient to justify enlargement.

Even the plan of David Alward's Progressive Conservative government to double the way only from Shediac to Bouctouche, adopted by the Liberals of Brian Gallant, has been questioned in this report.

According to studies, traffic in the vicinity of Bouctouche amounts to 7130 vehicles per day, whereas the number needed to justify a four-lane highway is set at 8000, according to government policies.
By my count this is more of a 25km project, if it runs right from the Bouctouche River. Very low AADT for such a project, though the maritimes seems to build a lot of very low AADT motorways.
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  #5725  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2017, 1:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
[B]By my count this is more of a 25km project, if it runs right from the Bouctouche River. Very low AADT for such a project, though the maritimes seems to build a lot of very low AADT motorways.
The AADT is about 7200 around Bouctouche, but increases as you head south towards Moncton. I wouldn't be surprised if it is near 10,000 between Cocagne & Shediac.

Factors that contribute to the decision to twin:
- currently a two lane limited access highway with no passing lanes. There is lots of speeding on this road with dangerous passing behavior
- very snowy in the wintertime due to squall activity off the gulf. This is also a safety issue.
- heavy tourist traffic in the summertime (Bouctouche Dunes, Pays de la Sagouine, Kouchibouguac National Park)
- part of the Moncton exurban commuter watershed therefore although the AADT is marginal, it is heavily concentrated during rush hours.
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  #5726  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2017, 2:31 PM
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10,000 is still fairly low for 4 lanes. Ontario usually waits until roads are around 15,000 before 4 laning, literally twice as busy as this stretch is.

As I said though, the Maritimes seem to twin highways much earlier. My experience driving in NB seems to suggest their highway network would be a quarter the size if they based it off of AADT standards that Ontario adheres to. Ontario would need to build thousands of km of highway if it wanted to have every road with 7,000 AADT be 4 lanes.
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  #5727  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2017, 3:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
10,000 is still fairly low for 4 lanes. Ontario usually waits until roads are around 15,000 before 4 laning, literally twice as busy as this stretch is.

As I said though, the Maritimes seem to twin highways much earlier. My experience driving in NB seems to suggest their highway network would be a quarter the size if they based it off of AADT standards that Ontario adheres to. Ontario would need to build thousands of km of highway if it wanted to have every road with 7,000 AADT be 4 lanes.
New Brunswick isn't really typical of the rest of the Maritimes either; they LOVE needlessly twinned highways.

MonctonRad is right, though, the weather through here in winter is just terrible, with lots of storms and rapidly changing conditions. This is one of the main snow/storm belts of the Maritimes. And there's a lot of tourist traffic in the summer, which probably brings the AADT way up.

Of course I'm still not totally convinced. How many accidents does this stretch of highway see, generally? How many fatal accidents? Is there anywhere to see those stats?
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  #5728  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2017, 3:10 PM
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Video of Autoroute 10 heading towards the Eastern Townships of Quebec taken last October. This was taken pretty much at the height of the fall colour season, so Mount Orford is pretty spectacular in colour:

Video Link
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  #5729  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2017, 3:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
10,000 is still fairly low for 4 lanes. Ontario usually waits until roads are around 15,000 before 4 laning, literally twice as busy as this stretch is.

As I said though, the Maritimes seem to twin highways much earlier. My experience driving in NB seems to suggest their highway network would be a quarter the size if they based it off of AADT standards that Ontario adheres to. Ontario would need to build thousands of km of highway if it wanted to have every road with 7,000 AADT be 4 lanes.
There are many highways that are 2 lane and are over the 15000 in Ontario.

The reality is - some highways should be 4 lanes regardless of their traffic use.
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  #5730  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2017, 3:38 PM
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Originally Posted by sonysnob View Post
Video of Autoroute 10 heading towards the Eastern Townships of Quebec taken last October. This was taken pretty much at the height of the fall colour season, so Mount Orford is pretty spectacular in colour:
Great video.
I drove the A-10 last summer for the first time in about 15 years, and for the first time in summer. I was very surprised at how narrow (non-existent) the shoulders were on that highway.

Nonetheless, a very nice drive, particularly from Granby to Magog
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  #5731  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2017, 3:39 PM
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^ AADT is generally a poor metric for determining when a highway should be widened anyways. AADT is not reflective of how traffic is distributed across the day, which means that peak hour volume is generally a far more accurate measure of highway operations, compared to AADT.

Traffic make-up, and local geography also play huge factors. A highway with a relatively low vehicle count that is comprised of a high percentage of commercial trucks would need to be widened sooner than a highway with the same volume of traffic that is comprised of a higher percentage of passenger cars.

If that same highway were to be located in an area with significant grades, it would again need to be widened sooner than that same highway located on generally flat terrain.
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  #5732  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2017, 3:40 PM
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New Brunswick isn't really typical of the rest of the Maritimes either; they LOVE needlessly twinned highways.
Well, if you want a divided national highway connecting Halifax to central Canada, by definition that means that you will end up with 500 km of divided highway (the TCH) through NB.

I think that dividing Highway 1 from Saint John to Petitcodiac (where it joins the TCH on the way to Moncton) is also justifiable. This route connects NB's two CMAs.

Highway 11/15 from Moncton to Shediac is also justifiable. This route is busier than the TCH is.

Now, mind you, the more recent highway projects in the province are becoming increasingly more debatable. I'm not sure about the recently divided Highway 1 from Saint John to the US border. This highway is grossly over-engineered and includes a completely unnecessary bypass around Saint Stephen, with a new crossing and a new customs plaza at the border. It would be different if the Americans had reciprocated by extending a divided highway of their own to the border, but they didn't, and once you cross the new international bridge, you are confronted with a single lane roundabout and a quick return to backwoods Maine roadways.

The new project to divide Highway 15 northward from Shediac to Bouctouche is also debatable, especially given the AADT data, but sometimes there have to be considerations beyond the AADT, such as commercial truck traffic, temporal traffic distribution, weather and accident data, etc.......
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  #5733  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2017, 3:43 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Well, if you want a divided national highway connecting Halifax to central Canada, by definition that means that you will end up with 500 km of divided highway (the TCH) through NB.

I think that dividing Highway 1 from Saint John to Petitcodiac (where it joins the TCH on the way to Moncton) is also justifiable. This route connects NB's two CMAs.

Highway 11/15 from Moncton to Shediac is also justifiable. This route is busier than the TCH is.

Now, mind you, the more recent highway projects in the province are becoming increasingly more debatable. I'm not sure about the recently divided Highway 1 from Saint John to the US border. This highway is grossly over-engineered and includes a completely unnecessary bypass around Saint Stephen, with a new crossing and a new customs plaza at the border. It would be different if the Americans had reciprocated by extending a divided highway of their own to the border, but they didn't, and once you cross the new international bridge, you are confronted with a single lane roundabout and a quick return to backwoods Maine roadways.

The new project to divide Highway 15 northward from Shediac to Bouctouche is also debatable, especially given the AADT data, but sometimes there have to be considerations beyond the AADT, such as weather and accident data.......
Didn't I 95 do the same thing till the TCH was 4 laned and the Highway 95 got twinned?
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  #5734  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2017, 3:43 PM
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Quebec's threshold for twinning is generally 10,000 AADT.
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  #5735  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2017, 3:49 PM
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Didn't I 95 do the same thing till the TCH was 4 laned and the Highway 95 got twinned?
Indeed, but that was the Americans problem and not ours.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the divided Highway 1 from SJ to the US border. It's a delight to drive on. It was partly built as a "highway to prosperity" for Charlotte County and for Irving commercial interests in SJ. It fulfills that function admirably (on the Canadian side), but without a reciprocal American divided highway from the border to Bangor, the potential of this highway is largely unfulfilled, and I believe this highway cost nearly a billion dollars to build.
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  #5736  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2017, 3:51 PM
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Indeed, but that was the Americans problem and not ours.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the divided Highway 1 from SJ to the US border. It's a delight to drive on. It was partly built as a "highway to prosperity" for Charlotte County and for Irving commercial interests in SJ. It fulfills that function admirably (on the Canadian side), but without a reciprocal American divided highway from the border to Bangor, the potential of this highway is largely unfulfilled, and I believe this highway cost nearly a billion dollars to build.
Who says that US1 won't get twinned?
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  #5737  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2017, 4:00 PM
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Who says that US1 won't get twinned?
It's actually Maine's State Route 9 that needs to be twinned in order for NB-1 to have maximum benefit.
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  #5738  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2017, 4:21 PM
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Here's the link to the CBC news story on this twinning project for NB Highway 11
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-br...ades-1.3934023

- Work will begin this year with completion set for late 2021.
- The termination of the divided segment will be just south of the Little Bouctouche River, which would be about 4 km south of Bouctouche itself. I imagine they chose this as the end point because there would be two bridges required to get to Bouctouche proper (over the Little Bouctouche & Bouctouche Rivers), as well as interchange upgrades into the town of Bouctouche. This would have added tens of millions of dollars to the cost of the project.
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  #5739  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2017, 4:31 PM
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Didn't I 95 do the same thing till the TCH was 4 laned and the Highway 95 got twinned?
In a way, but NB-95 wasn't that bad before it was twinned. It was a wide road, lots of passing lanes; granted with 3 or 4 at-grade intersections before reaching the (non-divided) TCH. I literally grew up in Richmond Corner, and that highway runs behind my house (separated by some forest and fields).

Even when the TCH was twinned and NB-95 was forked from the Old Houlton Road (Route 555), we never really saw the need to twin that stretch. (In fact, closing off the Plymouth Road at-grade intersection was especially annoying; it cut off a short cut we used to get to the highway from Route 555).

If you look at Vivglenn Road in the Woodstock, NB area of Google Maps, you can see a shade of what the old NB-95 was like. That road was made from the old stub of NB-95 left over when it was rerouted to the TCH interchange. I think the road has been narrowed a bit (or my memory is hazy), but you can still see the straightness, the cleared forest far from the wide roadbed and so forth. (On the sat-view you can even still see the ghost of where Route 555 and NB-95 met and how Route 555 used to meet NB-95, instead of Vivglenn Road meeting Route 555 as it is now).

Even now, I doubt the twinned NB-95 would have the AADT numbers to warrant twinning; it certainly never feels busy when I use it. But that twinning was probably seen as relatively cheap (2 simple bridges at Plymouth Road and 1 overpass for Route 540 at Richmond Corner aside) and it provided a full divided highway link between the twinned TCH and I-95.

*Edit* But yeah, getting back to the comment, I-95 going to NB-95 (for a 10-15km stretch to the TCH), isn't really comparable to the 4-lane NB-1 linking up to rural routes Maine-1 and Maine-9 and stretching for hundred(s?) of klicks before reaching I-95.
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  #5740  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2017, 4:56 PM
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The real problem was the US decision to route I-95 to Houlton in the first place. It should have gone to Calais / St. Stephen when it was first built. Now the closest thing that the US is considering to a freeway connection is a small extension if I-395 to hook up with Maine State Route 9.. and it is hitting significant opposition.

And yea, Highway 1 down to St Stephen as it is today is way overbuilt. I cut through the US whenever I head over to the Maritimes, and it always seems far too overbuilt. Once I believe I passed around 3 cars going the opposite way from St John to St Stephen, over 100km. It was early morning on Boxing Day, but it was regardless rather shocking.
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