PHILADELPHIA | East Market | 284 & 248 FT | 24 & 20 FLOORS

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

That department store was huge! To think Philly once had at least five gigantic block-long multi-story downtown department stores (Wanamaker's, Strawbridge's, Gimbel's, Lit's, Snellenberg's), not to mention several smaller ones.

That, if anything, is proof that Philadelphia can sustain much more retail downtown - if it can only make shopping down here more appealing to middle class people from the outer residential rings. And it looks like it can.

Mmm...Philly can definitely sustain more retail. Increasingly so as population grows, especially higher income population. But bear in mind that when Philly had those departments stores, it had some 400,000 more people. And a good chunk of those were middle class who lived in the city. There weren't masses of people commuting from the suburbs to shop in Philly department stores. Note that King of Prussia did not even exist until 1963 (and the suburbs did not have big box stores or a good stock of department stores). All that is to say, continued population growth and higher income population growth is key to Philly's retail success. We can expect to see some suburbanites who come to shop. But it's going to rise or fall on people who live in the city buying in the city.

[1487]

Interesting stuff here. I'll be glad when they get to the chestnut street side. its a nearly dead block right now.

http://www.phillymag.com/property/20...-philadelphia/

[summersm343]

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by 1487

Interesting stuff here. I'll be glad when they get to the chestnut street side. its a nearly dead block right now.

http://www.phillymag.com/property/20...-philadelphia/

Really great info here! Looks like they're planning a potential hotel either in the Stephen Girard building or in a new tower at 12th and Market.

[psueng7]

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[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by psueng7

Ghostly beer bottle reflection a nice touch.

[psueng7]

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[philatonian]

Pretty cool new rendering here...

http://www.phillymag.com/property/20...4T3oReLc3wq.01

[jrdizzy]

]

[apetrella802]

Originally Posted by philatonian

Pretty cool new rendering here...

http://www.phillymag.com/property/20...4T3oReLc3wq.01

Did one of the towers disappear ???

[aro1419]

Originally Posted by apetrella802

Did one of the towers disappear ???

The tower that "disappeared" is to be built in the second phase. I think that that rendering is only showing what the first phase will look like.

[shadowbat2]

Gutting continues:
029 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

025 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

[shadowbat2]

Basements exposed:
071 by tehshadowbat, on Flickr

[1487]

seeing everything open like this really shows how the lower levels of these buildings were tied together. From street level they look like totally independent structures, but it really was a unified complex. Its going to be a while before this thing gets to street level with all the subgrade work that has to be done for parking and loading docks.

[1487]

Did anyone post this anywhere?

http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...operative.html

Should be interesting to see how the tenant leasing goes. After being in the inner harbor area of baltimore I really saw how Philly is lagging in having known (chain) family restaurants in town. id think these two developments are going to heavily target chains that have no presence in Philly. Some folks may think CC is too good to feature chain restaurants but there are enough patrons to go around. Those who only do local places can continue to do so. But its ridiculous that so many places can only be found in K of P or Cherry Hill. we should have all the options found out there and then some.

[McBane]

Chains are a necessary evil and in fact they are a sign - moreso than Starbucks - that a neighborhood/city has that healthy demographic that chains seek (as they tend to be very risk-adverse).

While, I avoid chain restaurants as much as possible, big boxes like Target or Bed Bath Beyond are necessary for CC residents. While it's great that CC has a number of upscale boutique shops selling one-of-kind items, sometimes you just need the basics and for that kind of stuff, CC options are somewhat limited.

Plus, for the convention center crowd, it will be good to have these chain restaurants. As bizarre as it is for me - there are just those types of people who don't like to venture out and try the unfamiliar (even with Yelp, hotel concierges, etc.) I won't ever comprehend these types but I know they're out there.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by McBane

Chains are a necessary evil and in fact they are a sign - moreso than Starbucks - that a neighborhood/city has that healthy demographic that chains seek (as they tend to be very risk-adverse).

While, I avoid chain restaurants as much as possible, big boxes like Target or Bed Bath Beyond are necessary for CC residents. While it's great that CC has a number of upscale boutique shops selling one-of-kind items, sometimes you just need the basics and for that kind of stuff, CC options are somewhat limited.

Plus, for the convention center crowd, it will be good to have these chain restaurants. As bizarre as it is for me - there are just those types of people who don't like to venture out and try the unfamiliar (even with Yelp, hotel concierges, etc.) I won't ever comprehend these types but I know they're out there.

This depends very heavily on what the chain is. Capital Grillle and McCormicks are chains. So is Popeyes Chicken. Very different. And plenty of mid-range chains between the two extremes.

[thisisforreal]

Originally Posted by McBane

Plus, for the convention center crowd, it will be good to have these chain restaurants. As bizarre as it is for me - there are just those types of people who don't like to venture out and try the unfamiliar (even with Yelp, hotel concierges, etc.) I won't ever comprehend these types but I know they're out there.

I remember the last time I was in St. Louis for a conference. Every colleague I traveled with all wanted to go to the Hard Rock Cafe for lunch. I think to add to their shot glass collection. So much good bbq there, and they wanted Hard Rock.

To each their own. If it means reservations at my favorite places are still easy to come by 3 years from now, then that's fine by me in the end.

[1487]

Originally Posted by McBane

Chains are a necessary evil and in fact they are a sign - moreso than Starbucks - that a neighborhood/city has that healthy demographic that chains seek (as they tend to be very risk-adverse).

While, I avoid chain restaurants as much as possible, big boxes like Target or Bed Bath Beyond are necessary for CC residents. While it's great that CC has a number of upscale boutique shops selling one-of-kind items, sometimes you just need the basics and for that kind of stuff, CC options are somewhat limited.

Plus, for the convention center crowd, it will be good to have these chain restaurants. As bizarre as it is for me - there are just those types of people who don't like to venture out and try the unfamiliar (even with Yelp, hotel concierges, etc.) I won't ever comprehend these types but I know they're out there.

those "types" are the majority of Americans. When many folks venture out to spend money on a meal they are hesitant to experiment- they want a known product. In addition, if you look at where the convention center and many of the hotels are concentrated in CC there really arent a ton of independent restaurants in the vicinity aside from what's in Reading terminal. The core of CC is full of dunkin donuts, fast food places, food trucks, carts, etc. Most of our independent sit down restaurants are concentrated in more residential areas outside of the central tourist zone. If you think about Race, Vine and E. Market/Chestnut Streets there really aren't a ton of places to eat.

We definitely need a Target or something similar. The lack of a general purpose dept store downtown is an issue. Hopefully it wont be for much longer.

[1487]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

This depends very heavily on what the chain is. Capital Grillle and McCormicks are chains. So is Popeyes Chicken. Very different. And plenty of mid-range chains between the two extremes.

Exactly. I'm not sure why its so essential for people to prove their urbanite bona fides by expressing their disdain for any restaurant that happens to be found in other parts of the country. There is no law that says urban dwellers must have a problem with chain restaurants. Most philadelphians do their dining out in chain restaurants- if they can even afford to dine out. That's just reality. I don't see any signs that other cities are too good to offer a robust selection of decent, widely known restaurants. Nor do I believe there is any evidence that having such places will diminish the local scene.