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  #41  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2018, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
That's hilarious. Urban women with rubber boots in the city...

FWIW, I had rubber boots on all day yesterday, working in a cooling tower basin that had about a foot left of water at the bottom that we couldn't manage to pump out. I sometimes have them when going to my land depending on what I intend to do over there (if it doesn't involve the beaver ponds, usually I don't bother and stick with my usual running shoes). The thought of putting rubber boots on on a morning when I'm in the city and knowing I'll be in the city all day, is incredibly alien. Though, the part of me that refuses to admit it could be just for show kinda likes the idea of cute St. John's women in rubber boots and plaid...

(edit - learning such strange things about other places from locals of these places is one of the things I love about SSP)
Hunter boots are very popular in the UK, we lived in Bath, UK for a few years (about as posh as you can get) and they were very fashionable.
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  #42  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2018, 3:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mistercorporate View Post
If we are to classify small town people, we need to first agree on what constitutes a small town.

Less than 10,000 people:

I found small town young women to be quite sophisticated and in tune with pop culture vs the young men. Small town men and older small town women tend to be stuck in a time warp (still living in the 80's) that I found quite bizzare.

Over 100,000 people:

Not much difference from bigger cities, pretty sophisticated.
Just in general I find 100,000 seems to be a magic number. Like almost anything you want in a city of 1,000,000 you can probably do in a city of 100,000 although maybe JUST able to do. For a made up example if you want Ethiopian food maybe there's 20 places in the big city, and 1 in the 100k city. So you have it available, but just barely.
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  #43  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2018, 3:50 PM
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Originally Posted by DizzyEdge View Post
Just in general I find 100,000 seems to be a magic number. Like almost anything you want in a city of 1,000,000 you can probably do in a city of 100,000 although maybe JUST able to do. For a made up example if you want Ethiopian food maybe there's 20 places in the big city, and 1 in the 100k city. So you have it available, but just barely.
100,000 is definitely a city by Canadian standards.

In a high population country like the US or especially China, even 200K often feels like a dot on the map. But you go to a place like Regina and it feels like a cosmopolitan city.

A population of four digits or less is a must for small town status, IMO. Even a place like Portage la Prairie, MB (pop 13,000 or thereabouts) isn't something I would classify as a 'small town'. Maybe Ontario can get away with 5 digits, but even there the limit would probably be about 20,000.
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  #44  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2018, 3:51 PM
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But you go to a place like Regina and it feels like a cosmopolitan city.
Let's not say things that we might later regret.
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  #45  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2018, 3:56 PM
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Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post

(I was in Esbjerg a while back and it was a very 'holy fuck I totally live in Denmark' sort of thing. In Copenhagen this is very muted.)
On the list of tourist destinations in Denmark, Esbjerg is about the same level as Timmins might be in Canada.

Were you there on business?
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  #46  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2018, 4:03 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
100,000 is definitely a city by Canadian standards.

In a high population country like the US or especially China, even 200K often feels like a dot on the map. But you go to a place like Regina and it feels like a cosmopolitan city.

A population of four digits or less is a must for small town status, IMO. Even a place like Portage la Prairie, MB (pop 13,000 or thereabouts) isn't something I would classify as a 'small town'. Maybe Ontario can get away with 5 digits, but even there the limit would probably be about 20,000.
Absolutely. In the Alberta context, Lethbridge and recently Red Deer have started to feel like 'real cities' for a lack of better word, both around 100k population. Medicine Hat though, pop 65k feels like it has the bones or potential to be the same, but is missing key aspects, such as the only downtown hotel is a 'rent by the week' type place, which leads to almost no downtown residents, which leads to just one resto-pub open in the evenings ie no downtown nightlife really. There's big city aspects, but not enough for it to come together.
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  #47  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2018, 4:14 PM
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It is taking us a long time to let go of these sorts of assumptions, in rural areas and cities of all sizes.

In Canada, like the rest of the developed world, there is no longer a insurmountable cultural division between the city and the countryside. Today, while still a generalization, it's almost more accurate to view small towns as simply having less variety than a large city, as opposed to being an altogether different beast.
Indeed. Most people from small towns have also spent some of their lives outside of them now too for post-secondary education or something similar. So, most people who live in small towns have had something like a big-city life experience.

The idea of someone only living in a small town from birth until death is outmoded.
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  #48  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2018, 4:19 PM
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Originally Posted by DizzyEdge View Post
Just in general I find 100,000 seems to be a magic number. Like almost anything you want in a city of 1,000,000 you can probably do in a city of 100,000 although maybe JUST able to do. For a made up example if you want Ethiopian food maybe there's 20 places in the big city, and 1 in the 100k city. So you have it available, but just barely.
This is generally true for mainstream interests. Less variety, but more or less the same stuff.

You'll find exceptions - I think St. John's has a disproportionately low number of internationally-known clothing shops. On the other hand, we have Opera on the Avalon. So every smaller city (say 100-500Kish) is going to have its own specific set of things it's lacking, and things it surprisingly has.
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  #49  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2018, 4:34 PM
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Originally Posted by DizzyEdge View Post
Just in general I find 100,000 seems to be a magic number. Like almost anything you want in a city of 1,000,000 you can probably do in a city of 100,000 although maybe JUST able to do. For a made up example if you want Ethiopian food maybe there's 20 places in the big city, and 1 in the 100k city. So you have it available, but just barely.
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
This is generally true for mainstream interests. Less variety, but more or less the same stuff.

You'll find exceptions - I think St. John's has a disproportionately low number of internationally-known clothing shops. On the other hand, we have Opera on the Avalon. So every smaller city (say 100-500Kish) is going to have its own specific set of things it's lacking, and things it surprisingly has.
There's something to be said for that. Kingston, at 120k, fits the bill for both. You can do most city things here, but sometimes just barely.

One thing that Kingston punches way above its weight in is fine dining. There's lots of great restaurants here. Downtown Kingston is actually a foodie paradise.

But conversely, one area we do poorly in considering our size is bars. We don't really have any "nice" bars or pubs. They're all low-end, appealing either to university kids or the working poor.
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  #50  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2018, 4:39 PM
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Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
Indeed. Most people from small towns have also spent some of their lives outside of them now too for post-secondary education or something similar. So, most people who live in small towns have had something like a big-city life experience.
Good point. Until relatively recently, there weren't (with the very odd exception) many tertiary education institutions in smaller locales in Canada. Going to university in Canada typically meant going to the big city, especially out west.

These days there are smaller cities and towns with universities so that is starting to change.

It's a far cry from the US where you literally have small towns with universities, e.g. Mayville, ND, pop 1,858, which is home to Mayville State University (there are many other similar examples). With the end result being that if you want to go beyond high school without leaving the farm, you can in many cases. That isn't quite as easy in Canada.
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  #51  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2018, 7:00 PM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
There's something to be said for that. Kingston, at 120k, fits the bill for both. You can do most city things here, but sometimes just barely.

One thing that Kingston punches way above its weight in is fine dining. There's lots of great restaurants here. Downtown Kingston is actually a foodie paradise.

But conversely, one area we do poorly in considering our size is bars. We don't really have any "nice" bars or pubs. They're all low-end, appealing either to university kids or the working poor.
Kingston does lack in places you can go at night that aren't university bars or dives. Actually was one of the reasons I left the city, I felt it did not cater to a young single person who was past university age and didn't drink Laker. Though Toronto is far from perfect, I like that in that city I can take someone out to someplace else nice in the evening, whereas in Downtown Kingston everything except Tim Hortons, McDonald's, and the loud pubs close at 7 or 8 during May-August.
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  #52  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2018, 8:30 PM
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Originally Posted by manny_santos View Post
Kingston does lack in places you can go at night that aren't university bars or dives. Actually was one of the reasons I left the city, I felt it did not cater to a young single person who was past university age and didn't drink Laker. Though Toronto is far from perfect, I like that in that city I can take someone out to someplace else nice in the evening, whereas in Downtown Kingston everything except Tim Hortons, McDonald's, and the loud pubs close at 7 or 8 during May-August.
Kingston also lacks necessities like banh mi, dim sum, xiao long bao, good indian restaurants, etc, etc.

The big advantage that Kingston has over most other small centres is that it is a two hour train ride from both Toronto and Montreal (which makes its lack of options [or "sophistication" for the purposes of this thread] much more tolerable.

And of course Kingston boasts many of the advantages that "unsophisticated" small towns and cities enjoy: little traffic, short commutes, reasonable housing prices, etc.
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  #53  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2018, 11:46 PM
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Kingston is a really nice size if you want to have variety and available services but not lots of traffic and congestion. Sudbury is also good that way. Both places are also on their own and not very close or "attached" to another city. I believe Sudbury was determined to be the city in Canada with the happiest people according to StatCan.

Question: Are there any sophisticated towns that aren't close to large cities or regional centres in Canada?
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  #54  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2018, 11:54 PM
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In many areas of Canada, small towns are regional centres - so, a partial yes?

Bonavista gives most towns of 3,400 a run for their money. It's definitely buttressed by tourism, but it also caters to its own residents' cultural interests: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfo...tion-1.4743972

Joe Batt's Arm is mostly focused on local folk art, artists' residencies, and the rich - so it's simultanously super-NL and opposite-of-NL-pretentious, but it's definitely a hell of a lot more sophisticated than most towns of 780 people: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfo...-inn-1.4690518

Etc, etc.
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  #55  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2018, 1:14 AM
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I've been to Bonavista a couple of times and agree. Loved the town, its history and the businesses there. I remember a really cool tea room and some nice restaurants. Enjoyed the Ryan Premisis National Historic Site (Parks Canada). Of course the lighthouse and scenery are great. I also liked nearby Elliston to see the puffins.

The Bonavista peninsula is probably the best area of Newfoundland to visit for a variety of things to do with little driving. We tented at Lockston Path Provincial Park and loved how it's located right in the middle of the peninsula. And we've been to the attractions in Trinity, New Bonaventure Port Rexton, etc.. The Skerwink hiking trail is incredible. All is within a short drive to the Town of Bonavista so I would call is sophisticated for an isolated place.

I found the accent in Bonavista to be the "thickest" of anywhere in NL.
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  #56  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2018, 1:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Loco101 View Post
Kingston is a really nice size if you want to have variety and available services but not lots of traffic and congestion. Sudbury is also good that way. Both places are also on their own and not very close or "attached" to another city. I believe Sudbury was determined to be the city in Canada with the happiest people according to StatCan.

Question: Are there any sophisticated towns that aren't close to large cities or regional centres in Canada?
I would say Nelson, BC fits that category.

Very isolated but very vibrant with a well defined restaurant / bar scene.

Lots of unique and interesting shops, hotels, and parks. It even has satellite campuses and its own power generation separate from the rest of BC, haha.
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  #57  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2018, 6:29 AM
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Banff as well, and probably a few of the other mountain towns in BC.

Charlottetown is also like this, although it's a provincial capital and "regional centre" of sorts so I guess that's to be expected. Still, surprisingly good restaurant/bar scene, for example, and very tasteful and well-executed modern architecture etc.
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  #58  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2018, 11:33 AM
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It seems to me that the main contributing factors are:

Capital city status
A tourist destination
An artists' colony
Having a university

Or any combination of these.
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  #59  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2018, 1:01 PM
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It seems to me that the main contributing factors are:

Capital city status
A tourist destination
An artists' colony
Having a university

Or any combination of these.
Those often-cited exceptions are pretty rare in the big picture. For every Nelson, BC or Fogo Island, NL you have probably over a hundred nondescript small towns like Kindersley, SK or Armstrong, ON.
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  #60  
Old Posted Oct 17, 2018, 1:16 PM
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Banff as well, and probably a few of the other mountain towns in BC.

Charlottetown is also like this, although it's a provincial capital and "regional centre" of sorts so I guess that's to be expected. Still, surprisingly good restaurant/bar scene, for example, and very tasteful and well-executed modern architecture etc.
A couple other noteworthy towns in the mountainous interior of BC would be Revelstoke and Rossland. There are not quite to the level of Nelson, but they are close.

Another one would be Trail, but it is harder to categorize.

Essentially the Columbia / Kootenays region of the BC interior has the most "classic" yet sophisticated small towns in BC (western Canada?)
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