Have mid-twentieth century towers reached "never build again" status?

[Steely Dan]

i'm a bit ambivalent on the open-concept kitchen, but since moving to our new home we have come to LOVE the fact that our kitchen is now eat-in with a small breakfast nook area large enough for a 4-top table that works perfectly for our family meals.

our old condo had a traditional closed-off kitchen and adjacent, but fully seperated, dining room. no beuno for meal time with a couple of toddlers. having the ability for all 4 of us to gather, prepare, eat, and then clean-up our meals together in one unified space has made life profoundly easier, and thus more enjoyable, for us.

i'm not terribly concerned about the ramifications of floor plans on entertaining a large number of guests because that happens pretty damn infrequently for us these days. the functionality of space for day-to-day living is 8 billion times more important to me. and for our family with small kids, the eat-in kitchen has been game-changing for our day-to-day lives.

[10023]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Yeah. If there's a game on, I want to be able to watch along with my guests while I'm cooking. If I'm a guest, I want to have the opportunity to volunteer to help prep while seamlessly hanging out with other guests and/or keeping an eye on the game. It's called socializing.

If your friend actually enjoys cooking and takes it seriously, please don’t do this.

My then girlfriend, now fiancée, learned my views on this early on, when we had rented a beach house for a week with friends and, at the weekend, both of our mothers joined. I was making a real dinner for everyone (parents were meeting), and people kept wandering into the kitchen and standing around with glasses of wine. Meanwhile I’ve got three things on the stove and two in the oven at once, and I had to discretely pull my girlfriend aside and ask her to please get all these fucking people out of my kitchen.

She (raised in a Texas McMansion) said to me: “But the kitchen is where people hang out!”

My reply to her was “No, the kitchen is a workplace.”

She gets it now. Everyone enjoyed the meal, btw.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Open plan layouts coincide with the elimination of gendered spaces. Obviously, women formerly gathered in the kitchen and men in the family room or den.

Once those norms were altered, home designs adapted to flowing social spaces. I don't think home design is reverting back to the discrete rooms.

Hmm, that is an interesting theory that never occurred to me and it makes sense as to why young home buyers want an open concept and the reason cited is to be able to entertain their guests.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by 10023

If your friend actually enjoys cooking and takes it seriously, please don’t do this.

I see you're from London, so you probably take dining in general more seriously/formally. In America, it's really not a big deal for guests and hosts to mingle during the cooking process.

[10023]

Originally Posted by homebucket

I see you're from London, so you probably take dining in general more seriously/formally. In America, it's really not a big deal for guests and hosts to mingle during the cooking process.

I’ve lived in London for five years. I’m from Chicago. It’s more that few people in either place can actually cook, or choose to.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by 10023

You’re probably right, but we don’t all have to go along with it. Just as we can still avoid wearing shorts in the city, wear proper shirts with buttons and collars, and know that a jacket or black tie is never “optional”.

Wait...what?

[austlar1]

My own preference is for a well defined dining area adjacent to a semi-open kitchen or a kitchen that is NOT the focal point of the main living area of the house or apartment. It seems to me that too many of the products delivered in today's housing market feature a giant kitchen wall and gigantic island that overwhelm the main living space, which is frequently rather small. Somebody mentioned that the smells associated with cooking can be removed by high end ventilation equipment, but this equipment is usually not provided in today's housing market. Instead there is a noisy hood over the cooking surface that only does so much to remove cooking smells. Then there is the mess associated with good cooking or any kind of cooking really. These over designed kitchens often have surfaces that look quite untidy until they have been restored to their HGTV pristine state where everything is tucked away behind seamless cabinets and drawers. I am addicted to Zillow and devote way too much time to online residential window shopping. I guess my tastes reflect my age, but I am immediately turned off by homes and apartments that feature the center-stage open kitchen. I have often wondered whether this was a fad or reflective of a possible bare-boned future where housing is reduced to a kitchen with seating and a few bedrooms and a bathroom or two. That sounds kind of grim to me.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by JManc

Wait...what?

Shorts in a city are a no-no, unless working out.

Dude wearing shorts in NYC and not jogging/biking/in a park = American or Canadian tourist.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by 10023

You’re probably right, but we don’t all have to go along with it. Just as we can still avoid wearing shorts in the city, wear proper shirts with buttons and collars, and know that a jacket or black tie is never “optional”.

Do you pop your collar?

[10023]

^ I do not. Maybe in high school.

Originally Posted by JManc

Wait...what?

That doesn’t apply to Houston I guess. I don’t think shorts should be worn in cities like New York or London. Perhaps if you’re in a suburban part of west London, but not in central London.

I suppose Houston is mostly suburban and you’re not riding the subway or walking around much. You do have the possibility of going into a smarter restaurant, in which case you should not be wearing shorts. But I guess sartorial rules tend to go out the window in that climate.

Originally Posted by Crawford

Shorts in a city are a no-no, unless working out.

Dude wearing shorts in NYC and not jogging/biking/in a park = American or Canadian tourist.

Bonus points if they’re cargo shorts, or anything that reaches the knee. You might as well wear an “I Love NY” t-shirt (and not in an ironic way).

Also, don’t wear flip flops in the city (unless you like tetanus).

[JManc]

Originally Posted by austlar1

My own preference is for a well defined dining area adjacent to a semi-open kitchen or a kitchen that is NOT the focal point of the main living area of the house or apartment. It seems to me that too many of the products delivered in today's housing market feature a giant kitchen wall and gigantic island that overwhelm the main living space, which is frequently rather small. Somebody mentioned that the smells associated with cooking can be removed by high end ventilation equipment, but this equipment is usually not provided in today's housing market. Instead there is a noisy hood over the cooking surface that only does so much to remove cooking smells. Then there is the mess associated with good cooking or any kind of cooking really. These over designed kitchens often have surfaces that look quite untidy until they have been restored to their HGTV pristine state where everything is tucked away behind seamless cabinets and drawers. I am addicted to Zillow and devote way too much time to online residential window shopping. I guess my tastes reflect my age, but I am immediately turned off by homes and apartments that feature the center-stage open kitchen. I have often wondered whether this was a fad or reflective of a possible bare-boned future where housing is reduced to a kitchen with seating and a few bedrooms and a bathroom or two. That sounds kind of grim to me.

I think this style referring to; the kitchen along one wall with an island stemmed from old loft conversions. That seems to be the popular format with these things that has transferred elsewhere. They look great in an open loft where space is a premium but crap in a typical house or apartment

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Shorts in a city are a no-no, unless working out.

Dude wearing shorts in NYC and not jogging/biking/in a park = American tourist.

Or...a dude that is hot and wants to be comfortable outside of the work environment?

Ladies wear skirts, men wear shorts.

Or have Calves become offensive in N.Y. and London? It's been a while since I've been there, but skin was acceptable back in the day.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

Or...a dude that is hot and wants to be comfortable outside of the work environment?
Ladies wear skirts, men wear shorts.

Locals wear pants. Short are not acceptable on guys in NYC unless you're headed to a park or the gym.

I wouldn't even wear shorts to an outdoor BBQ, not even in July, at least in the city. Light pants and collared shirt.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Locals wear pants. Short are not acceptable on guys in NYC unless you're headed to a park or the gym.

I wouldn't even wear shorts to an outdoor BBQ, not even in August, at least in the city.

Locals in a N.Y. summer wear pants? Not from what I've seen. Locals take their shirts off [often without deodorant].

I'm not talking about a worker on a work day. I'm talking about a New Yorker on their own time.

[10023]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Locals wear pants. Short are not acceptable on guys in NYC unless you're headed to a park or the gym.

I wouldn't even wear shorts to an outdoor BBQ, not even in July, at least in the city. Light pants and collared shirt.

Same.

Just don’t wear jeans. They don’t breathe and get hot as hell. A pair of lightweight chinos is not going to kill you. And linen pants can be a nice idea.

While we’re being fastidious... just don’t wear short sleeved shirts (meaning buttons and a collar). It’s like a tuxedo t-shirt or novelty tie. Wear a real shirt and roll the sleeves.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Locals wear pants. Short are not acceptable on guys in NYC unless you're headed to a park or the gym.

I wouldn't even wear shorts to an outdoor BBQ, not even in July, at least in the city. Light pants and collared shirt.

meanwhile, everywhere else in the known universe, people wear shorts when it's hot out.

NYC is fucking weird.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by 10023

Same.

Just don’t wear jeans. They don’t breathe and get hot as hell. A pair of lightweight chinos is not going to kill you. And linen pants can be a nice idea.

I think linen is a terrible look. It wrinkles after you sit down once. Dark denim is timeless and matches with everything even a coat if needed. [and the Kool kids like it].

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

meanwhile, everywhere else in the known universe, people wear shorts when it's hot out.

NYC is fucking weird.

And plenty of guys who live in NYC can be found running errands and doing things in the daytime wearing shorts. Not so much when headed out at night.

[JManc]

I've been to NYC and London many times...are we talking about the same New York and London? I saw people piss on buildings in both cities. Shorts are the least of their worries.

[10023]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

I think linen is a terrible look. It wrinkles after you sit down once. Dark denim is timeless and matches with everything even a coat if needed. [and the Kool kids like it].

Denim is too hot on a hot summer day.

Get heavier linen (it will still breathe, but have enough of its own weight to drape properly), and wear it a lot. Over time, it will stop wrinkling so much, when the fibers have been totally crushed and the fabric has softened.