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  #581  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2012, 10:39 AM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
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I suppose one could argue the Lower Hill is more continuous with Downtown, notwithstanding Crosstown, but I would think the NSC should remedy that problem. So no, I can't explain the disparity in market analysis, and everything else I have read suggests the Penguins/Jones Lang LaSalle have the better-informed view.

By the way, PNC Tower alone is going to cost $400 million or so, and then you would need a budget for the rest of the site. No one is going to put up that amount of money on spec--you would need an entity like PNC that wants to make a statement with a signature building. That's not inconceivable, but I also think even if there was such an entity looking to build in Pittsburgh, their first choice would likely be a site in Downtown itself (and there are some notable possibilities).

Of course I could be wrong, but I think we would be lucky if the tallest towers in the Lower Hill made it into the 15-20 range, assuming we are talking about something that would happen in the next 10 years. And personally, even if it is 10-15 I won't be too upset, because that is at least consistent with a dense mixed-use downtown scene.

Edit: Oh, and admittedly this is a long way to go for a silver lining, but one thing that did occur to me is that in the future when it becomes ridiculously clear we need to make better use of that land and the NSC, it won't be much of a sunk cost problem to tear down that two-story building on the North Shore and build taller. It is sort of how I feel about the Riverhounds stadium--maybe not the ideal long term use, but OK as a placeholder.
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  #582  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2012, 11:22 AM
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I've mentioned before my ambition for the Lower Hill is something like the area around the Verizon Center in DC. I get that people want taller, but with the increasing elevation it would at least have a presence from Downtown, and such an area can be very lively.
I agree. Something akin to the Chinatown area around the Verizon Center would be awesome. Not tall, but dense, colorful and vibrant!

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  #583  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2012, 1:05 PM
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OMG Aaron that is so funny. Not suprised one bit though.
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  #584  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2012, 1:15 PM
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Perhaps I missed this somewhere but are they doing work on the top of the Gulf Tower? The top few tiers of the "pyramid" have been dark at night and I was curious if anyone knew why.

Thx
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  #585  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2012, 2:01 PM
Wiz Khalifa Wiz Khalifa is offline
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LOL indeed!

Nah, I don't think it's weird... The Northshore developers are just rediculously out-of-touch with what's going on on the other side of the river...
What makes this situation so nonsensical is that it is the North Shore and not the Lower Hill that is getting the subway extension. Yet if an outsider listened to the press releases and plans coming from the two development camps, they almost certainly would think that the opposite was true.

Instead the reality, which is a new $1 billion subway extension to the north shore, makes these statements from Continental even more inexcusable/comical.

If these morons actually think that building a two story Toby Keith chain restaurant next to a subway one stop removed from the Central Business District is the only development that is "economically feasible at this time", then they really have no business developing anything inside of an urban area.

Signature Development?! More like
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  #586  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2012, 3:59 PM
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I agree. Something akin to the Chinatown area around the Verizon Center would be awesome. Not tall, but dense, colorful and vibrant!

Aaron (Glowrock)
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That part of town is great. It is active every night of the week, even when there aren't events at the arena.

I am a structural engineer who is moving from the DC area to Pittsburgh next month, so hopefully I will be able to contribute in the future, instead of just observe.
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  #587  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2012, 4:11 PM
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Exactly, Topher51. D.C.'s Chinatown/Entertainment District is a great model upon which to base Pittsburgh's development. And welcome to SSP as well!

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  #588  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2012, 5:01 PM
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Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
I suppose one could argue the Lower Hill is more continuous with Downtown, notwithstanding Crosstown, but I would think the NSC should remedy that problem. So no, I can't explain the disparity in market analysis, and everything else I have read suggests the Penguins/Jones Lang LaSalle have the better-informed view.
Jones Lang LaSalle is in charge of finding tenants for the North Shore Toby Keith-o-plex.

Hopefully they land a "Twin Peaks" restaurant... that would fit in well with the existing collection of businesses... and would represent a "signature development".

from Nashville:

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20...xt|FRONTPAGE|p


Quote:
'Twin Peaks' brings food, sports, double entendre to Brentwood

11:02 AM, Mar. 23, 2012



BRENTWOOD – A Texas-based chain of restaurants known for lodge-style fare and cold draft beer served by waitresses dressed in skimpy lumberjack uniforms is making a dive into the Tennessee market.

Twin Peaks Restaurant franchisees have applied for an on-premises beer permit in the hopes of refurbishing the former Smokey Bones barbecue restaurant building on Galleria Boulevard near Old Navy and DSW Shoe Warehouse.

The company’s website announces “you’re the man” while advertising “teasers” appetizers, “well-built” sandwiches, home-style meat loaf and a plate of three mini-brats known as Average Joe’s. It advertises sports broadcasts including pay-per-view events like UFC fights.

...
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  #589  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2012, 8:01 PM
daviderik daviderik is offline
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Originally Posted by 7068073429 View Post
Perhaps I missed this somewhere but are they doing work on the top of the Gulf Tower? The top few tiers of the "pyramid" have been dark at night and I was curious if anyone knew why.

Thx
Sometime ago I read that they were going to change the lights to LED lights to save on power. Not sure if that is the reason or not? They may have already done that or the LED lights may just be for the weather station lights at the very top.
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  #590  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2012, 4:30 PM
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U.S. Steel could move out of Downtown office tower
By Thomas Olson, PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Friday, March 23, 2012
About the writer

Thomas Olson is a Pittsburgh Tribune-Review staff writer and can be reached at 412-320-7854 or via e-mail.
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U.S. Steel Corp. is looking at moving its headquarters from its Downtown office tower, which is the region's tallest building.

The steel company's lease on U.S. Steel Tower expires in 2017. The company occupies 14 of the skyscraper's 64 floors and employs about 1,500 people there.

"We are investigating several options in light of business drivers such as cost, efficiency and logistics," said spokesman Chuck Rice. "We are exploring alternatives in order to arrive at the best long-term business solution for our company."

Occupying 450,000 square feet of space, U.S. Steel is the building's second-largest tenant, behind UPMC, the region's largest health care system.



Read more: U.S. Steel could move out of Downtown office tower - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt...#ixzz1q99nrq6S

I'm trying to figure out if this is good or bad news...If U.S. Steel decides to become a part of financing group for a large tower on the civic arena site, It's great news- but is that too much to wish?
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  #591  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2012, 5:25 PM
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It would be great if the Lower Hill Redevelopment consortium could approach U.S. Steel about relocating there. It appears USS probably needs more space and can't find it in their namesake tower due to UPMC's rapid expansion (the tower is 99 percent leased).

Unfortunately, I think the most likely outcome will be a suburban campus along the I-79 corridor ala Dick's or Mylan. Hopefully USS doesn't pull a HQ relocation to Manhattan or elsewhere ala Alcoa. They could always pull the "Airport doesn't have any connections anymore" excuse to justify abandoning Pittsburgh.
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  #592  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2012, 5:31 PM
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Originally Posted by KINGPIN View Post
U.S. Steel could move out of Downtown office tower
By Thomas Olson, PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Friday, March 23, 2012
About the writer

Thomas Olson is a Pittsburgh Tribune-Review staff writer and can be reached at 412-320-7854 or via e-mail.
Ways to get us


U.S. Steel Corp. is looking at moving its headquarters from its Downtown office tower, which is the region's tallest building.

The steel company's lease on U.S. Steel Tower expires in 2017. The company occupies 14 of the skyscraper's 64 floors and employs about 1,500 people there.

"We are investigating several options in light of business drivers such as cost, efficiency and logistics," said spokesman Chuck Rice. "We are exploring alternatives in order to arrive at the best long-term business solution for our company."

Occupying 450,000 square feet of space, U.S. Steel is the building's second-largest tenant, behind UPMC, the region's largest health care system.



Read more: U.S. Steel could move out of Downtown office tower - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt...#ixzz1q99nrq6S

I'm trying to figure out if this is good or bad news...If U.S. Steel decides to become a part of financing group for a large tower on the civic arena site, It's great news- but is that too much to wish?
That's my take on it. That's the ONLY way I could see this as being good news. For them to vacate their steel fortress castle on Grant Street for some shitty suburban office park complex would be beyond insulting to the city and region. Sure, "all the other" companies vacated downtown, so why in the hell should they leave?!

I hope they would consider doing that; building a new tall building on the Arena site, but I doubt it would happen. They could call it something like "Pittsburgh Sky Tower," or they could rename the location as Steel Plaza (One and Two) after the T station beneath the tower.
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  #593  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2012, 6:14 PM
Minivan Werner Minivan Werner is offline
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A very similar development to the lower hill took place in Columbus.. I believe the Penguins visited Nationwide Arena to develop ideas when building CEC, so hopefully they took note of the arena district around it.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arena_District

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  #594  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2012, 7:55 PM
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A company with so many employees would have to decide carefully as its employees are currently commuting to a central location. This is a lot of people we are talking about, so I wouldn't say they are moving to I-79 so quickly.

I would bet they stay downtown, but where???
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  #595  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2012, 8:37 PM
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It would be great if the Lower Hill Redevelopment consortium could approach U.S. Steel about relocating there. It appears USS probably needs more space and can't find it in their namesake tower due to UPMC's rapid expansion (the tower is 99 percent leased).

Unfortunately, I think the most likely outcome will be a suburban campus along the I-79 corridor ala Dick's or Mylan. Hopefully USS doesn't pull a HQ relocation to Manhattan or elsewhere ala Alcoa. They could always pull the "Airport doesn't have any connections anymore" excuse to justify abandoning Pittsburgh.
Agreed, Everygrey. It would be great if they relocated to space in the redevelopment, but as long as they stay in the Pittsburgh region, I'd be okay with that.

Hope they don't pull the airport card, though!

Aaron (Glowrock)
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  #596  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2012, 8:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Minivan Werner View Post
A very similar development to the lower hill took place in Columbus.. I believe the Penguins visited Nationwide Arena to develop ideas when building CEC, so hopefully they took note of the arena district around it.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arena_District

What's crazy about that photo is that currently ALL those parking lots left are under-construction for new buildings.
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  #597  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2012, 8:56 PM
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Honestly... I'd rather not have the Penguins consortium take cues from the Columbus Arena District. It's ok for that particular spot in Columbus (I especially love the highway cap)... and is representative of a point in time during the painfully slow incremental improvements in urban infill strategies over the past few decades... but it's largely inappropriate for what is a very special urban development opportunity in the Lower Hill. The Civic Arena site should be much more than a branded corporate faux-neighborhood where generic "neo-colonial" mixed-use structures house overpriced chain bars, "Mongolian grilles" and loads of parking. And considering we already have the North Shore, Station Square and SouthSide Works... this type of development is the last thing we need. The Lower Hill should strive to be an "authentic neighborhood"... seamlessly woven into the existing urban fabric. Another "entertainment district" will just cannibalize the others.



wikipedia
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  #598  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2012, 10:02 PM
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Context is everything. The Lower Hill neighborhood is a transitional zone between downtown and Oakland. The Arena District is an old prison site on the edge of an industrial zone and railroad yards. I agree it wouldn't be appropriate for the Lower Hill District.
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  #599  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2012, 10:23 PM
Minivan Werner Minivan Werner is offline
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Honestly... I'd rather not have the Penguins consortium take cues from the Columbus Arena District. It's ok for that particular spot in Columbus (I especially love the highway cap)... and is representative of a point in time during the painfully slow incremental improvements in urban infill strategies over the past few decades... but it's largely inappropriate for what is a very special urban development opportunity in the Lower Hill. The Civic Arena site should be much more than a branded corporate faux-neighborhood where generic "neo-colonial" mixed-use structures house overpriced chain bars, "Mongolian grilles" and loads of parking. And considering we already have the North Shore, Station Square and SouthSide Works... this type of development is the last thing we need. The Lower Hill should strive to be an "authentic neighborhood"... seamlessly woven into the existing urban fabric. Another "entertainment district" will just cannibalize the others.
Understood.

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Context is everything. The Lower Hill neighborhood is a transitional zone between downtown and Oakland. The Arena District is an old prison site on the edge of an industrial zone and railroad yards. I agree it wouldn't be appropriate for the Lower Hill District.
The arena district is pretty close to Columbus' CBD as I recall. Perhaps not as close as the lower hill is to Pittsburgh's CBD, but it's not separated by anything like the Crosstown Blvd.
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  #600  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2012, 10:58 PM
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The Arena District is IN Columbus' CBD. The difference is that it is an edge formerly built for warehouse factories and railyards. It, in essence, is an island. Lower Hill is more of a zone between two employment centers; the Arena District is an edge of downtown that wasn't built near anything since no one wanted to live near a prison or railyards.
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