Top 50 US Metros ranked by average daily airport O&D traffic.

[bnk]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

... And just so everyone is happy, here's what happens if we add Milwaukee to Chicago:

Metro          Daily O&D      total     total O&D    O&D %  # of Airports
New York	 127,801   51,883,694   23,131,981  44.60%  6 airports
LA Area		 119,346   38,092,034	21,601,626  56.70%  6 airports <-----
Chicago Area	 99,362	   42,841,809	17,984,522  41.90%  3 airports <-----
DC Area		 91,733	   29,917,661	16,603,673  55.50%  3 airports <-----
SF Area		 87,419	   26,179,300	15,822,839  60.44%  3 airports <-----
Miami	         79,636    31,262,044   14,414,116  46.10%  3 airports
Las Vegas        73,138    20,224,090   13,237,978  65.50%	
Orlando          68,040    18,211,975   12,315,240  67.60%  2 airports
Boston Area   	 63,088	   15,838,375	11,418,928  72.10%  3 airports <-----
Dallas/Ft.Worth  59,577    31,149,065   10,783,437  34.60%  2 airports

... ]

[SouthmoreAve]

Originally Posted by L41A

I would say Chicago's O'Hare is the closest airport in size (based on passengers/movements) to ATL. Just as ATL is the closest airport to O'Hare and as ATL is the closest to Dallas (DFW) when taking into consideration your stated criteria.

Well ATL's airport is huge, so what i really meant was is there even an airport that is competitive with Hartsfield-Jackson?

Doesn't Seattle have Portland, LA has the Bay Area, Miami has Orlando, etc.

Look at the top 10(15?) MSA's. Most of the really big ones, except maybe LAX, DFW, and MIA , have no realistic competition, which has fostered a large portion of its growth. Looking at you, ATL and O'Hare

ATL is very impressive, its the busiest airport in the world, right? But i think the fact that DFW has competition from IAH, and to a lesser extent Hobby, Love Field, SA International, Austin-Bergstrom International, etc is more impressive than ATL, a huge regional center being so big. Theres a reason its big. Now i now comparing GA to TX is a big stretch, but you can't argue that ATL has many advantages as why its grown so much.

[jcchii]

driving to milwaukee from here to catch a flight seems mythical to me, except on radio commercials, but whatever

[bnk]

Originally Posted by jcchii

driving to milwaukee from here to catch a flight seems mythical to me, except on radio commercials, but whatever

Well the 2 million some odd northern and northwestern Chicagoland people seem to love the idea of a third northern airport option. For me Milwaukee is just a little bit longer than to O'hare and costs less. Midway is farther from me than Mitchell. It may seem mythical to you but 2-4 million Chicagoland peps seem to like the option north.

BTW Mitchell is not in Milwaukee itself [dead center anyway] but on the southern end of Milwaukee to boot.

I myself fly out of O'hare 70% [due to its extensive connectivity] of the time and split the remander between Midway and Mitchell based on cost.

Also on long vacations it is less expensive to park at Mitchell vs. Midway or O'hare.

From anyone that lives above Lake Cook road that does not consider Mitchell as a transportation option is just a fool and a mythical creature that never traveled above Lake Cook road or eight mile road in Detroit as an example.


If you live on the south end of the region than MKE is not such a good option but for several millions to almost 5 million souls


it is a real choice and should be concidered as a real third airport option.

[Cirrus]

driving to milwaukee from here to catch a flight seems mythical to me, except on radio commercials, but whatever

I have never heard of anyone going from DC to Richmond for a flight. Not once, not ever. But whatev.

Personally, I think the logical cut-off is Boston. Count three airports for Boston, DC and SF. After that you're stretching too much. Others may disagree.

[L41A]

Originally Posted by SouthmoreAve

Well ATL's airport is huge, so what i really meant was is there even an airport that is competitive with Hartsfield-Jackson?

Doesn't Seattle have Portland, LA has the Bay Area, Miami has Orlando, etc.

Look at the top 10(15?) MSA's. Most of the really big ones, except maybe LAX, DFW, and MIA , have no realistic competition, which has fostered a large portion of its growth. Looking at you, ATL and O'Hare

ATL is very impressive, its the busiest airport in the world, right? But i think the fact that DFW has competition from IAH, and to a lesser extent Hobby, Love Field, SA International, Austin-Bergstrom International, etc is more impressive than ATL, a huge regional center being so big. Theres a reason its big. Now i now comparing GA to TX is a big stretch, but you can't argue that ATL has many advantages as why its grown so much.

It's just that your comparisons are logically all over the place (figuratively and literally). First you mention distance. You made the comparison of Dallas (DFW) and Houston (IAH) for your supposition in stating that ATL has no competition. My response was that Charlotte (CLT) is just as big/busy as IAH and is relatively the same distance from Atlanta as Dallas is from Houston.

Then you compare by size and location. I'm not really sure what you mean by big/huge. Do you mean land area, terminal size, passengers, movements, etc? I assume you mean the multitude of those things as big. My response is that there is no "huge" "big" or "similar sized" airport which is in close proximity to ATL much the same as ORD, LAX, DFW or DEN.

You brought up the state comparison with feigned astonishment of no other airport in Georgia like ATL. The only other state that you had mention in your post was Texas. (like the likelihood of another airport the size of ATL in a state the size of Georgia is common)

Finally, what seemingly prompted your response was Rail Claimore's interesting musing of the O&D numbers for ATL. I found the content of your response disingneous. I'm not arguing what you find impressive - that's subjective and really can't be argued. However, I do find your response suspect because all of your comparisons would lower the O&D numbers for ATL that Rail Claimore found interesting to begin with.

[SouthmoreAve]

Originally Posted by L41A

It's just that your comparisons are logically all over the place (figuratively and literally). First you mention distance. You made the comparison of Dallas (DFW) and Houston (IAH) for your supposition in stating that ATL has no competition. My response was that Charlotte (CLT) is just as big/busy as IAH and is relatively the same distance from Atlanta as Dallas is from Houston.

Then you compare by size and location. I'm not really sure what you mean by big/huge. Do you mean land area, terminal size, passengers, movements, etc? I assume you mean the multitude of those things as big. My response is that there is no "huge" "big" or "similar sized" airport which is in close proximity to ATL much the same as ORD, LAX, DFW or DEN.

You brought up the state comparison with feigned astonishment of no other airport in Georgia like ATL. The only other state that you had mention in your post was Texas. (like the likelihood of another airport the size of ATL in a state the size of Georgia is common)

Finally, what seemingly prompted your response was Rail Claimore's interesting musing of the O&D numbers for ATL. I found the content of your response disingneous. I'm not arguing what you find impressive - that's subjective and really can't be argued. However, I do find your response suspect because all of your comparisons would lower the O&D numbers for ATL that Rail Claimore found interesting to begin with.

Well your still focusing on my old post, which i admit was less though-out that it should've been. But there doesn't have to be a huge airport(huge=passangers) in GA, just one that's noticeable enough.

I mentioned a lot of airports that TX has, but is there an airport comparable to Austin-Bergstrom International or a San Antonio International, even a Dallas Love Field or Hobby Airport in GA.

And Charlotte to Atlanta is longer than Dallas to Houston,in which you even have to cross a state.(Yes i know, GA isnt TX) Especially since DFW Airport is in b/w FW and DAL, thus making it an even longer trip.

Also CLT is noticeably smaller than IAH, and isnt comparable to Houston when you consider the overall airports. Destinations served, hub status, size & terminals, passengers, aircraft operations, etc.

My original point was that ATL wasn't that impressive. The airport itself is, but its statistics aren't. And because my opinion was subjective, it would be hard for you to convince me otherwise. Lets just agree to disagree.

[L41A]

Originally Posted by SouthmoreAve

Well your still focusing on my old post, which i admit was less though-out that it should've been. But there doesn't have to be a huge airport(huge=passangers) in GA, just one that's noticeable enough.

I mentioned a lot of airports that TX has, but is there an airport comparable to Austin-Bergstrom International or a San Antonio International, even a Dallas Love Field or Hobby Airport in GA.

SAV (Savannah) (214 air miles to ATL) is the next largest airport in Georgia based on boardings. However, BHM (Birmingham) (134 air miles to ATL) is a lot closer to ATL but in another state and it compares more fairly to the other TX airports you mentioned. Also BNA (Nashville) which is about the same distance to Atlanta (214 air miles) as Houston is to Dallas (225 air miles) compares even more favorably to the other TX airports you mentioned. Other notable airports are CHS (Charleston, SC) 259 air miles to ATL, TYS (Knoxville,TN) 152 air miles to ATL, JAX (Jacksonville, FL) 270 air miles to ATL and PNS (Pensacola, FL) 272 air miles to ATL. All airports mentioned -including CLT (Charlotte)- ranked in Top 100 based on 2008 boardings recorded by FAA.

Originally Posted by SouthmoreAve

And Charlotte to Atlanta is longer than Dallas to Houston,in which you even have to cross a state.(Yes i know, GA isnt TX) Especially since DFW Airport is in b/w FW and DAL, thus making it an even longer trip.

Do the Math.
ATL to CLT ...... 227 miles by air .... 249 by car
DFW to IAH ...... 225 miles by air .... 251 by car
And ATL is on the southwest side of Atlanta and Charlotte is northwest of Atlanta.
I'm beginning to wonder if you really do know that Texas ain't Georgia. You do know the jurisdictions east of Mississippi are generally a lot smaller in area than those west of the Mississippi.........well....do you?

Originally Posted by SouthmoreAve

Also CLT is noticeably smaller than IAH, and isnt comparable to Houston when you consider the overall airports. Destinations served, hub status, size & terminals, passengers, aircraft operations, etc.

CLT had 17 million boardings in 2008 and 35 million passengers with 5% increase from previous year.
IAH had 20 million boardings in 2008 and 42 million passengers with 3% decrease from previous year.

Originally Posted by SouthmoreAve

My original point was that ATL wasn't that impressive. The airport itself is, but its statistics aren't. And because my opinion was subjective, it would be hard for you to convince me otherwise. Lets just agree to disagree.

Opinions by definition are of subjective nature so It is not a point of agreement but of logic and fact. So what makes the airport impressive but the statistics are not? I'm not debating your opinion or trying to convince you of anything. I am however suspicious of the sincerity and flawed logic in which your opinion is based.

You see, I actually do just a little research or know things before I say things and not make blind narrow comparisons without facts. You should try it.

[denizen467]

Once upon a time (1980s, 1990s), DFW was the big competitor to ORD. But the last decade it's clearly been ATL and ORD. Lately there's been very little heard about DFW as a contender.

What happened? Love Field?

In fact, though it's a gross generalization, you don't hear much about Dallas at all (except that billion dollar stadium...); has its thunder been stolen by Houston, SA and Austin?

[plinko]

*scratches head wondering what (if anything) several forumers are trying to prove or disprove about Atlanta's airport* ugghhh

[Buckeye Native 001]

Once again proving that people on this forum will fight about anything.

[glowrock]

If ATL was covered in crispy, delicious bacon, I bet everyone would be happy!

Aaron (Glowrock)

[Cirrus]

Once again proving that people on this forum will fight about anything.

We will not.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by jcchii

driving to milwaukee from here to catch a flight seems mythical to me, except on radio commercials, but whatever

to pile on to what bnk said, if chicagolanders using MKE as a 3rd airport really is mythological to you, then i'd say it's likely you don't have a lot of familiarity or contact with the northern burbs. my sister and her family live up in lake county and they've used MKE before because it's not much further from them than ORD and it's approximately 7 billion times less congested and crowded and long term parking is but a fraction of the cost. and a couple of months ago, my aunt who lives in evanston flew out of MKE because she found a $140 cheaper flight out of MKE than anything she could find out of ORD or MDW.

so chicagoans using MKE is definitely a real phenomenon, but i still think there are probably a lot more cheeseheads that head south to use chicago's aiports than FIBs who travel north to use MKE.

[202_Cyclist]

denizen467--

Once upon a time (1980s, 1990s), DFW was the big competitor to ORD. But the last decade it's clearly been ATL and ORD. Lately there's been very little heard about DFW as a contender.

What happened? Love Field?

The history of Love Field is quite interesting. This is from a paper I wrote for a Transportation Law course about perimeter rules (Reagan-National, LaGuardia, Love Field) that restrict competition and service at these airports.

"The purpose of the Wright Amendment, which is essentially a highly-restrictive perimeter rule, was to protect the newly-built Dallas/Forth Worth International Airport (DFW). In the 1960s, recently-created Southwest Airlines sought to offer flights out of Love Field, which was owned by the City of Dallas. This conflicted with the goal of the cities of Dallas and Fort Worth to transfer service to the new DFW, a larger regional airport. Southwest, however, had other intentions, and began offering service between Love Field and Houston and San Antonio. The decision by Southwest to offer service from Love Field resulted in protracted litigation between the carrier and the cities of Dallas and Forth Worth but the Civil Aeronautics Board ultimately allowed Southwest to offer flights to destinations in Texas and neighboring states from Love Field.

As a result of the CAB decision, “DFW supporters turned to House Speaker Jim Wright (D-Texas) to attach an amendment to that bill [H.R.5481] protecting DFW from competition at Love Field.” The measure proposed by Congressman Wright was draconian in its reach, “banning any airline from engaging in interstate air commerce from Love Field.” This was too much for the Senate to accept and subsequent compromise led to the Wright Amendment in 1980. In the years since, the Shelby Amendment has added Alabama, Kansas, and Mississippi to the states served by Southwest from Love Field. Even with these added destinations, Southwest still bristled at the restrictions caused by the Wright Amendment. As a result, in 2005, “Dallas-area congressmen Sam Johnson (R-Texas) and Jeb Hensarling (R-Texas) introduced legislation, the Right to Fly Act, to repeal the Wright Amendment.” The proposed legislation eventually led to a compromise between American Airlines (the dominant carrier at DFW), Southwest, and the Cities of Dallas and Forth Worth."

Love Field is currently seeking to modernize and expand its terminals and add new gates. An article in the Dallas Morning News about the project notes the Wright Amendment will sunset in 2014 (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...d.3e8a922.html)

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by denizen467

Once upon a time (1980s, 1990s), DFW was the big competitor to ORD. But the last decade it's clearly been ATL and ORD. Lately there's been very little heard about DFW as a contender.

What happened? Love Field?

In fact, though it's a gross generalization, you don't hear much about Dallas at all (except that billion dollar stadium...); has its thunder been stolen by Houston, SA and Austin?

Not really. O'Hare and Hartsfield have been #'s 1 & 2 back and forth with each other since the 80's, until Atlanta pulled ahead to remain a solid #1. Dallas was always 3rd.

Don't forget Delta de-hubbed Dallas quite a few years back.

[BrianSac]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

to pile on to what bnk said, if chicagolanders using MKE as a 3rd airport really is mythological to you, then i'd say it's likely you don't have a lot of familiarity or contact with the northern burbs. my sister and her family live up in lake county and they've used MKE before because it's not much further from them than ORD and it's approximately 7 billion times less congested and crowded and long term parking is but a fraction of the cost. and a couple of months ago, my aunt who lives in evanston flew out of MKE because she found a $140 cheaper flight out of MKE than anything she could find out of ORD or MDW.

so chicagoans using MKE is definitely a real phenomenon, but i still think there are probably a lot more cheeseheads that head south to use chicago's aiports than FIBs who travel north to use MKE.

Like Chicago (ORD) and Milwaukee (MKE), there is alot of cross traffic between Sacramento Int'l (SMF) and the Bay Area-San Francisco (SFO).

For example, if Sacramentans want a non-stop to Europe or Asia we must drive (or even fly) the 85 miles to SFO. Also, old habits are hard to die as you still have Northern Californias who think they must drive to SFO in order to fly anywhere. I know Sacramentans who still drive to SFO or even Oakland to fly to Hawaii which is ridiculous.

But, more and more vacationers that visit the Napa Wine Region consider Sacramento (SMF) as a real choice now and people from Solano County, also known as the North Bay are choosing SMF over Bay Area airports.

Like Milwaukee and ORD, Sacramento probably sends much more people to SFO than San Francisco (Bay Area) to SMF. I wish I knew the statistics on this.

I should point out that ORD is much bigger than SFO and SMF is much bigger than MKE.

SMF is ranked 24th on this list; MKE is 38th.
ORD is ranked 3rd on this list; SFO is 6th.

[QUOTE=SlidellWx;4607128][CODE]
Metro Daily O&D total total O&D O&D % # of Airports

24th Sacramento 20,175 4,356,274 3,651,675 83.80% ]
Kansas City
Charlotte
Raleigh/Durham
San Jose
New Orleans
Austin
Pittsburgh
San Antonio
Nashville
Indianapolis
Riverside
Columbus
Jacksonville
38th Milwaukee 12,541 3,560,224 2,269,921 63.80% QUOTE]

[202_Cyclist]

BrianSac:

Like Chicago (ORD) and Milwaukee (MKE), there is alot of cross traffic between Sacramento Int'l (SMF) and the Bay Area-San Francisco (SFO).

For example, if Sacramentans want a non-stop to Europe or Asia we must drive (or even fly) the 85 miles to SFO. Also, old habits are hard to die as you still have Northern Californias who think they must drive to SFO in order to fly anywhere. I know Sacramentans who still drive to SFO or even Oakland to fly to Hawaii which is ridiculous.

But, more and more vacationers that visit the Napa Wine Region consider Sacramento (SMF) as a real choice now and people from Solano County, also known as the North Bay are choosing SMF over Bay Area airports.

What about vacationers going to Tahoe? Although Reno is closer, fares and frequencies are better at Sacramento. Are there a lot of passengers using this airport for that purpose?

[BrianSac]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

BrianSac:



What about vacationers going to Tahoe? Although Reno is closer, fares and frequencies are better at Sacramento. Are there a lot of passengers using this airport for that purpose?

Funny you bring that up, I have friends from Dallas who love Tahoe in January and they always fly to SMF over Reno.....even when they are not stopping in Sac to visit us they would rather fly to SMF.

[bobdreamz]

Originally Posted by SouthmoreAve
Well ATL's airport is huge, so what i really meant was is there even an airport that is competitive with Hartsfield-Jackson?
Doesn't Seattle have Portland, LA has the Bay Area, Miami has Orlando, etc.

How is Orlando competitive with Miami? These cities are 228 miles apart and a 3 & a half hour drive! Besides Miami is one of the top airports in the US for international flights. I don't see them as being competitors even though they are in the same state.