Under the Radar: Darkhorse small cities that could one day be very big

[osmo]

Lots of folks boosting Kelowna, but, is it's economy robust enough to fuel big time growth?

I put my money on KW as it has the economy to boost it's numbers along nicely over time.

[kwoldtimer]

I'm old enough to remember when K-W had fewer than 200,000 people but for the purposes of this thread, it doesn't qualify.

[Metro-One]

Kelowna's economy is not as bad as many think it is.

It's agriculture is based on high value crops which involve a lot of decent processing industrial activities afterwards (the obvious ones being wine and juice production).

It also has a decently strong aerospace industry (I know people personally who work in that industry in Kelowna).

I believe for its size high tech is not doing so bad.

Then of course there is the tourism industry. The obvious summer based activities but also there are decent winter resorts up in the hills nearby.

It is also the heart of the larger Okanagan area and it has a direct major highway link to the Lower Mainland.

It will never be a huge city, but I don't think 500 000 or so is out of the question.

[Denscity]

^^^ Ya and as Vancouver grows and becomes even more expensive to live this will fuel more people to move into Kelowna.
And actually as Kelowna grows we are starting to see people from there move here.

[GlassCity]

I think as climate change ramps up our northern cities could become big benefactors. The Okanagan would become even hotter and drier in the summer, making it a difficult place to live. Places like Prince George, Grande Prairie and Northern Ontario...now those I see taking off. Cheaper, plenty of land and warmer. I'd throw in Whitehorse there too actually, but I think it's too geographically constrained to really grow to any significant size.

[Laceoflight]

Moncton :
The heart of the maritimes.

[north 42]

I'm going with the cities in the Canadian "rust belt". Lots of cities with so much potential and good old urban bones. From Windsor, London, KW, Hamilton and Niagara Region, even though they are much larger than the cutoff above!
The area already has a very healthy, growing economy, and is in a great location with many nearby American cities, Great Lakes coastlines and a rather tepid climate for Canada.

[urbandreamer]

Barrie because it's filled with babies. I spent 8 hours in the Barrie hospital Wednesday and saw the baby boom happening before my eyes. Barrie/Innisfil will become another 500,000+ region within 40 years. Real estate developers are betting heavily on Barrie as well: sprawling for miles. Fantastic location.

K-W on target for 1 million by 2060.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Laceoflight

Moncton :
The heart of the maritimes.

Shhhh - don't show someone123 this, he'll have a stroke!!!

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Barrie because it's filled with babies. I spent 8 hours in the Barrie hospital Wednesday and saw the baby boom happening before my eyes. Barrie/Innisfil will become another 500,000+ region within 40 years. Real estate developers are betting heavily on Barrie as well: sprawling for miles. Fantastic location.

K-W on target for 1 million by 2060.

Well, K-C-W anyway.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Shhhh - don't show someone123 this, he'll have a stroke!!!

I post a lot sometimes but I don't get worked up about SSP.

I don't deny that Moncton is in a good spot, is fairly central to the highway system, and is likely to do well in the future, though probably not just because of where it happens to be located. I think it is a good candidate for this thread (well, I think it will grow, but I don't think there will be any large cities in the Maritimes anytime soon).

However, the visualization above is a bit misleading since it doesn't indicate where the bodies of water are or where the different types of roads are. For example you can't go directly from the Annapolis Valley to Moncton and driving from PEI to Moncton costs nearly $50 in tolls.

As an exercise, where would you put the connecting lines, and what point along those lines would have half the population on one side and half on the other? Also, how much does it matter? Truro claims to be the "hub of Nova Scotia".

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Kelowna's economy is not as bad as many think it is.

Not as bad??

According to Statscan Kelowna's employment has grown over 11% in the last 12 months! And their unemployment rate is almost concerning low at 3.8%
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tabl...fss03k-eng.htm

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by someone123

the visualization above is a bit misleading since it doesn't indicate where the bodies of water are or where the different types of roads are. For example you can't go directly from the Annapolis Valley to Moncton and driving from PEI to Moncton costs nearly $50 in tolls.

As an exercise, where would you put the connecting lines, and what point along those lines would have half the population on one side and half on the other? Also, how much does it matter? Truro claims to be the "hub of Nova Scotia".

The point regarding the bodies of water is a valid one, but penalizes Halifax just as much (if not more) than Moncton. The Bay of Fundy cuts off the Annapolis Valley from Moncton, but it also cuts Saint John off from Halifax. Because of the bay, it takes at least four hours to drive from SJ to Halifax - certainly not a day trip!!

Also, the comment regarding the bridge toll to get to Moncton from PEI is just as valid for Halifax. Charlottetown to Moncton is a $50 toll and a one hour 45 minute drive. Charlottetown to Halifax is still a $50 toll and a 3.5 hour drive.

[rousseau]

I still want to know if there's a good way to get to Frederiction or Saint John from Montreal going as straight as possible through Maine. Or have I asked this on this forum before?

Seems like Bangor to Saint John is straightforward from what I can tell on Google Maps, but Montreal to Bangor looks complicated.

[TownGuy]

Canada really is a bitch to do a road trip in. From Ontario the Maritimes are blocked by Maine and the West is blocked by the Great Lakes.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by rousseau

I still want to know if there's a good way to get to Frederiction or Saint John from Montreal going as straight as possible through Maine. Or have I asked this on this forum before?

Seems like Bangor to Saint John is straightforward from what I can tell on Google Maps, but Montreal to Bangor looks complicated.

Take US Highway 2 at Plattsburgh NY, drive through northern VT, NH and western ME. Enter onto I-95 at Newport, drive 30 minutes to Bangor and then exit onto State Route 9 (Colloquially known by all Maritimers as the "Airline Route"), drive another 90 minutes through the wilderness and you will arrive at the border at Calais/Saint Stephen.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by TownGuy

Canada really is a bitch to do a road trip in. From Ontario the Maritimes are blocked by Maine and the West is blocked by the Great Lakes.

New Brunswick is only 255km from Quebec City. You're not blocked lol . you must go to the Gaspé Peninsula. National Geographic listed the Gaspé peninsula among the top 10 travel destinations in the world.
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/tr...insula-quebec/


Bout Du Monde/ Land's End by Marian Dragiev, sur Flickr
• Video Link
• Video Link

the Percé Rock is spectacular

[someone123]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Also, the comment regarding the bridge toll to get to Moncton from PEI is just as valid for Halifax. Charlottetown to Moncton is a $50 toll and a one hour 45 minute drive. Charlottetown to Halifax is still a $50 toll and a 3.5 hour drive.

I guess. I never said I think Halifax is a "hub" either. My wider point is that the geography of the Maritimes is such that the notion of a hub is a lot weaker than it is in some other places. Somebody from a pancake-flat Midwestern state might get the wrong impression from that visualization.

As far as Moncton goes I think the railway routing was important way back when, but the transportation links are less of a driving force for economic growth now. Good connections are necessary but not sufficient. Moncton pulled ahead, arguably, because it didn't have the legacy blue collar industries in Saint John and because of its bilingualism advantage. Beyond the call centre type jobs, I think it got more in the way of postsecondary and healthcare institutions than it would have without the Francophone population. Francophones are also more likely to stick around in Eastern Canada.

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by rousseau

I still want to know if there's a good way to get to Frederiction or Saint John from Montreal going as straight as possible through Maine. Or have I asked this on this forum before?

Seems like Bangor to Saint John is straightforward from what I can tell on Google Maps, but Montreal to Bangor looks complicated.

Not any particularly good route. You're on secondary 2-lane roads at best, unless you go down far enough to hit I-95.

Montreal to the Maritimes in Canada only, you only have 40km of untwinned roads on 185 in Quebec, and otherwise it's a 4-lane freeway all the way through; to Freddy it takes about 8 hours or so. (If you're going to Saint John you'll have another stretch of 2 lane highway between Freddy and SJ).

There was a proposal in Maine for an Highway linking Montreal to Calais, but it's been dead for a few years now.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Take US Highway 2 at Plattsburgh NY, drive through northern VT, NH and western ME. Enter onto I-95 at Newport, drive 30 minutes to Bangor and then exit onto State Route 9 (Colloquially known by all Maritimers as the "Airline Route"), drive another 90 minutes through the wilderness and you will arrive at the border at Calais/Saint Stephen.

Thanks for the tip on that. I'm confused about Plattsburgh, though. Isn't that on the west side of Lake Champlain? Looks to me like you pick up Hwy 2 just south of the Canada/US border. Or am I missing something?

I wonder if it would be faster to take Hwy 10 out of Montreal, switch to Hwy 55 at Magog and take that across the border where it turns into I-91, then meet up with Hwy 2 at St. Johnsbury VT and continue on with your directions as above?