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  #61  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2011, 6:51 PM
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I'm all for the green bike lanes as well. Very cool!
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  #62  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2011, 3:10 PM
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Paul Cunningham, current Boise Airport President, said today at the annual economic forum that we may have non-stop air service to Hawaii soon.

Very interesting comment. The only two near-term scenarios I could see would be Allegiant offering 757 service to Hawaii from Boise (as there is no nonstop competition, and our market would fit their business model), or Alaska Airlines offering 737-800 service to Maui nonstop, as there's been a lot of rumor and hearsay that Alaska/Horizon could be growing in Boise over the next few years. I'm more inclined to believe he was referring to Allegiant as I'm not sure the 737 has the range to reliably make it to Hawaii nonstop. But I could be wrong.

Interesting comment, nonetheless.
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  #63  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2011, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by BoiseAirport View Post
Paul Cunningham, current Boise Airport President, said today at the annual economic forum that we may have non-stop air service to Hawaii soon.

Very interesting comment. The only two near-term scenarios I could see would be Allegiant offering 757 service to Hawaii from Boise (as there is no nonstop competition, and our market would fit their business model), or Alaska Airlines offering 737-800 service to Maui nonstop, as there's been a lot of rumor and hearsay that Alaska/Horizon could be growing in Boise over the next few years. I'm more inclined to believe he was referring to Allegiant as I'm not sure the 737 has the range to reliably make it to Hawaii nonstop. But I could be wrong.

Interesting comment, nonetheless.
I'd bet on Allegiant.

Where would Alaska expand? They've been more inclined to cut in the last decade and have tried expansion before.
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  #64  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2011, 6:30 PM
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While we're on the topic of expanded air service. I seem to recall several years ago that Mayor Bieter was talking about aggressively going after Asia service from Boise. Reasons cited were that other west coast gateways like LAX, SFO and SEA weren't expected to be able to increase capacity to keep up with demand. I tried searching for info, but found nothing on Google. When I have more time I'll try logging in through my university's library to search proquest. Is this something that is at all likely or that is still being pursued? It would seem that we would need a ton more feeder service into Boise for Asia flights to be viable and a much expanded terminal. Seems far-fetched even for Mayor Bieter...
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  #65  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2011, 7:28 AM
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Originally Posted by isangpogi View Post
While we're on the topic of expanded air service. I seem to recall several years ago that Mayor Bieter was talking about aggressively going after Asia service from Boise. Reasons cited were that other west coast gateways like LAX, SFO and SEA weren't expected to be able to increase capacity to keep up with demand. I tried searching for info, but found nothing on Google. When I have more time I'll try logging in through my university's library to search proquest. Is this something that is at all likely or that is still being pursued? It would seem that we would need a ton more feeder service into Boise for Asia flights to be viable and a much expanded terminal. Seems far-fetched even for Mayor Bieter...
Maybe he was referring to cargo? This has been spoken of before. It will be decades before passenger service is extended to Asia.
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  #66  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2011, 3:41 PM
ATLonthebrain ATLonthebrain is online now
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Paul Cunningham is the Chairman of the Boise Airport Commission, not the President of the Airport. The Commission is an Advisory Board to the Mayor & City Council.

Yes, Mayor Bieter was referring to Air Cargo, and none of those markets mentioned has run out of cargo capacity as of yet. It will be some time before considerable progress is made in this area of potential growth.

There are several opportunities for new or returning air service at Boise Airport in 2012. Stay tuned!
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  #67  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2011, 8:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ATLonthebrain View Post
Paul Cunningham is the Chairman of the Boise Airport Commission, not the President of the Airport. The Commission is an Advisory Board to the Mayor & City Council.

Yes, Mayor Bieter was referring to Air Cargo, and none of those markets mentioned has run out of cargo capacity as of yet. It will be some time before considerable progress is made in this area of potential growth.

There are several opportunities for new or returning air service at Boise Airport in 2012. Stay tuned!
Thanks for the correction. The title didn't immediately come to me, and I was in the middle of class, so I was in a rush.

I know a lot less about cargo operations than I do about passenger operations, but from what I do know, I would think there is a lot of potential for air cargo growth in the valley. The airport isn't currently congested (especially once the 3rd runway is complete), the climate is great meaning few delays, the location is great, we're not in an area where the skies are overcrowded, and there's endless space to grow.

What I'm very curious to see is some of the new or returning air service you mention. From everything I've heard, American's service to Los Angeles is at least doing well enough that they're looking at Los Angeles to Spokane. I wonder if American would try Dallas/Ft. Worth to Boise again, especially now that they have the CRJ-700s with First. I doubt United/Continental would try Boise to Houston again. I understand that route was successful for a few years, but I'd figure they'd rather funnel that traffic through Denver and Chicago. It would be fantastic to have a link between Boise and Texas again.

But what I'm most interested in is the battle for market share between Southwest and Alaska/Horizon here, and how that will change the air service dynamic here. It would be my dream to see AS/QX rebuild their operations to the level of a large focus city, similar to what they had from 1995-2002.

Route map from October 2002:
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  #68  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2011, 8:52 PM
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Originally Posted by BoiseAirport View Post
Thanks for the correction. The title didn't immediately come to me, and I was in the middle of class, so I was in a rush.

I know a lot less about cargo operations than I do about passenger operations, but from what I do know, I would think there is a lot of potential for air cargo growth in the valley. The airport isn't currently congested (especially once the 3rd runway is complete), the climate is great meaning few delays, the location is great, we're not in an area where the skies are overcrowded, and there's endless space to grow.

What I'm very curious to see is some of the new or returning air service you mention. From everything I've heard, American's service to Los Angeles is at least doing well enough that they're looking at Los Angeles to Spokane. I wonder if American would try Dallas/Ft. Worth to Boise again, especially now that they have the CRJ-700s with First. I doubt United/Continental would try Boise to Houston again. I understand that route was successful for a few years, but I'd figure they'd rather funnel that traffic through Denver and Chicago. It would be fantastic to have a link between Boise and Texas again.

But what I'm most interested in is the battle for market share between Southwest and Alaska/Horizon here, and how that will change the air service dynamic here. It would be my dream to see AS/QX rebuild their operations to the level of a large focus city, similar to what they had from 1995-2002.

Route map from October 2002:
No worries..I just wanted to provide Mr. Cunningham's official title.

The thing with air cargo is that it is as much about logistics as anything else. There typically needs to be strong infrastructure in place, meaning multiple highways/interstates, proximity to other major metropolitan areas, rail links, in some cases a seaport, a large demographic which creates solid and consistent demand for air cargo capacity, and a strong complement of freight forwarder operators. As of now, those major markets mentioned (Seattle, Portland, Bay Area, LA) are all much stronger and each has superior accessibility and demand to that in Boise. I think it is smart to plan for the future, and that's what this is, long-term planning and forward thinking of what Boise Airport "could become" in the world of air cargo.

AA to DFW as well as UA to IAH are both very possible, dare I say likely, in the next couple of years. For UA, the IAH hub is unique to any other it operates, so there are dozens of new connect opportunities via IAH that UA cannot offer from any other hub in its network. That means there is the potential to attract new customers to the UA & Star Alliance network which may currently be traveling on another carrier. For AA, DFW offers the opportunity to strengthen the brand locally by flying nonstop to its largest hub, growing BOI market share and complementing its LAX service. A big problem is the CR7 is not currently based @ DFW. If that is the aircraft of choice, it may be a while before we see the service debut.

BOI has to be very careful about what new air service opportunities it pursues because there is the possibility of having too much of a good thing, meaning too much new service debuting in a short span of time that the community can't absorb quickly enough to be deemed successful. If anything fails, it will be very difficult to bring back in the future, because airlines don't have short-term memories. They will remember how formerly operated routes performed.

Not sure how much AS/QX will resemble its former self @ BOI, but it seems there is a move towards capitalizing on a strengthening local market. The focus remains on SEA & PDX, but there may be some compelling data for further expanded BOI service. At a minimum, AS/QX will gain a few points of market share on WN in 2012 with the latter discontinuing service to SEA in addition to RNO & SLC. WN will likely lose 15-20% of its existing passengers to other BOI carriers.
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  #69  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2011, 2:19 AM
isangpogi isangpogi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLonthebrain View Post
Paul Cunningham is the Chairman of the Boise Airport Commission, not the President of the Airport. The Commission is an Advisory Board to the Mayor & City Council.

Yes, Mayor Bieter was referring to Air Cargo, and none of those markets mentioned has run out of cargo capacity as of yet. It will be some time before considerable progress is made in this area of potential growth.

There are several opportunities for new or returning air service at Boise Airport in 2012. Stay tuned!
Cargo makes much more sense. Boise handling cargo sounds a lot like Anchorage doing the same thing. Anchorage has the benefit of proximity to sea but Boise would have more efficient land links via rail and road. When airspace over LA, San Fransisco, Seattle and Portland is an issue I hope Boise is equipped for increased cargo capacity.

On the subject of Alaska/Horizon, I wonder if Alaska is pondering adding a Boise to Reno flight to replace Southwest's departure from that route. Also, I wonder if Delta will increase capacity to SLC for the same reason...
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  #70  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2011, 7:24 PM
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Originally Posted by isangpogi View Post
Cargo makes much more sense. Boise handling cargo sounds a lot like Anchorage doing the same thing. Anchorage has the benefit of proximity to sea but Boise would have more efficient land links via rail and road. When airspace over LA, San Fransisco, Seattle and Portland is an issue I hope Boise is equipped for increased cargo capacity.

On the subject of Alaska/Horizon, I wonder if Alaska is pondering adding a Boise to Reno flight to replace Southwest's departure from that route. Also, I wonder if Delta will increase capacity to SLC for the same reason...
Delta has actually decreased seats. They can now charge more with fewer seats and no competition. I prefer to fly from a regional airport in SoCal through SLC to BOI. But it is so insanely expensive this season on Delta (still get Alaska miles) and it appears their schedule goes unchanged when Southwest cuts in Jan.
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  #71  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2011, 10:48 PM
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ANC is only a player in the game of Air Cargo because of its geography and the fact most widebody cargo aircraft can't fly nonstop between the U.S. and Asia. Those planes can carry much more total weight as freighters than they can in a traditional passenger configuration. More weight equals less range. So, they need a tech stop to refuel and continue on. If not for that, ANC would play an extremely minor role in the business. And, it's not an issue of "airspace" but "ground space" that will drive opportunity away from the coastal states and potentially to BOI, SLC, GEG in the years to come. As those airports run out of room to expand cargo facilities, the doors begin to open for other airports further inland.

As great as it would be to see a carrier replace Southwest to RNO, it's probably not going to happen in 2012. If Southwest, as the only game in town flying the route, and offering connecting opportunities to SoCal, Vegas, PHX, etc. couldn't make it work, it will be hard to convince another carrier to do it. From a seat capacity standpoint, I think the Q400 is the perfect sized aircraft and it has the right operational characteristics. But, when weighed against other opportunities Alaska Air Group has in its sights, I doubt it is high on the list.

DL is doing exactly what any company should do in the current situation @ SLC. It actually reduced BOI-SLC capacity a couple of months ago and the decision to do so was made prior to Southwest's announcement. It's part of a broader network reduction. Southwest's service doesn't end until 1/8/12, so it is still operating 2x daily for another 7-weeks. DL has reduced its overall capacity @ SLC, so BOI is but one of the markets to be impacted. Keep in mind DL is ridding itself of dozens of 50-seat RJs, as well as the last of the DC9's it acquired from NW. Something will happen for the spring/summer BOI schedule, but not likely sooner than that. And, it certainly won't be anything above the 8x daily service DL operated over the summer. Hopefully its service to SLC remains in extremely high demand, warranting both added capacity along with the ability to charge a fare premium post-Southwest. The latter is what is most important to the company, but it may see a parallel opportunity to increase frequency and/or aircraft size as the traditionally busiest season of travel approaches and become even more profitable.
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  #72  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2011, 3:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ATLonthebrain View Post
ANC is only a player in the game of Air Cargo because of its geography and the fact most widebody cargo aircraft can't fly nonstop between the U.S. and Asia. Those planes can carry much more total weight as freighters than they can in a traditional passenger configuration. More weight equals less range. So, they need a tech stop to refuel and continue on. If not for that, ANC would play an extremely minor role in the business. And, it's not an issue of "airspace" but "ground space" that will drive opportunity away from the coastal states and potentially to BOI, SLC, GEG in the years to come. As those airports run out of room to expand cargo facilities, the doors begin to open for other airports further inland.

As great as it would be to see a carrier replace Southwest to RNO, it's probably not going to happen in 2012. If Southwest, as the only game in town flying the route, and offering connecting opportunities to SoCal, Vegas, PHX, etc. couldn't make it work, it will be hard to convince another carrier to do it. From a seat capacity standpoint, I think the Q400 is the perfect sized aircraft and it has the right operational characteristics. But, when weighed against other opportunities Alaska Air Group has in its sights, I doubt it is high on the list.

DL is doing exactly what any company should do in the current situation @ SLC. It actually reduced BOI-SLC capacity a couple of months ago and the decision to do so was made prior to Southwest's announcement. It's part of a broader network reduction. Southwest's service doesn't end until 1/8/12, so it is still operating 2x daily for another 7-weeks. DL has reduced its overall capacity @ SLC, so BOI is but one of the markets to be impacted. Keep in mind DL is ridding itself of dozens of 50-seat RJs, as well as the last of the DC9's it acquired from NW. Something will happen for the spring/summer BOI schedule, but not likely sooner than that. And, it certainly won't be anything above the 8x daily service DL operated over the summer. Hopefully its service to SLC remains in extremely high demand, warranting both added capacity along with the ability to charge a fare premium post-Southwest. The latter is what is most important to the company, but it may see a parallel opportunity to increase frequency and/or aircraft size as the traditionally busiest season of travel approaches and become even more profitable.
I really like learning so much about about aviation and particularly air cargo. I had no idea that Cargo planes were unable to make it to the mainland and that is why Anchorage has become such a key player in air cargo. After I posted, I thought about what you just said. I've flown the BOI-RNO route before, but only as a connection to LAX. Those who I've chatted with on the plane have also been on their way somewhere else besides Reno. I don't think we'll miss the Reno route too much as long as Southwest still provides good 1-stop destinations, and it does through Oakland and Denver.

My wishlist for Boise expanded service would start with American adding flights to DFW, and Delta doing BOI-ATL. Hawaii would be great, but I'm not a fan of Allegiant after living in Idaho Falls so I'm willing to hold out. Also US Airways to Philadelphia would be great to get us a Northeast destination...
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  #73  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2011, 7:04 PM
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American Eagle is pulling back out of Boise.... :/

http://www.ktvb.com/news/business/Ai...134767658.html
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  #74  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2011, 8:54 PM
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Wow, that was unexpected, and pretty sad, too. I had heard the route had been doing pretty well, but I guess that was incorrect. Always sucks to lose an airline.

I wonder if QX will give another go at it within the next few years.
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  #75  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2011, 10:51 PM
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Wow, that was unexpected, and pretty sad, too. I had heard the route had been doing pretty well, but I guess that was incorrect. Always sucks to lose an airline.

I wonder if QX will give another go at it within the next few years.
I think passengers counts were fine. I'm sure fuel and running their own station made the route expensive to run. They should have hired out ground services to Horizon. Perhaps American Eagle doesn't allow that, I don't know. Plus, their times were unattractive from LAX and flying Eagle out of the remote terminal is a pain.

2012 is not shaping up as a great year for air travel in Boise.
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  #76  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2011, 1:00 AM
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I think passengers counts were fine. I'm sure fuel and running their own station made the route expensive to run. They should have hired out ground services to Horizon. Perhaps American Eagle doesn't allow that, I don't know. Plus, their times were unattractive from LAX and flying Eagle out of the remote terminal is a pain.

2012 is not shaping up as a great year for air travel in Boise.
We need some good news to come to Boise air travel. The destinations list on BOI's wikipedia page is filling up with phrases like "service ending on..." I was worried about the route when I heard that American's parent company, AMR is going through Chapter 11. They said in the article that the route cancellation is not related to the bankruptcy but certainly it is due to American's revenue problems. Here I thought that American was getting ready to connect BOI and DFW again! American Airlines though may be headed for a merger with US Airways, according to the statesman.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/1...p-through.html

Its rough to lose an airline, but at least we're not losing service altogether to LAX. United will continue to provide service. And maybe, just maybe, this will pave the way for Alaska Horizon to start up BOI-LAX again.....
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  #77  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2011, 2:01 AM
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Question for any of you airport buffs: are there any cities in the US larger than Boise that do not have a designated international airport?
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  #78  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2011, 2:10 AM
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Question for any of you airport buffs: are there any cities in the US larger than Boise that do not have a designated international airport?
I'd like to add a follow-up question... What IS an "International Airport?" Many cities half Boise's size have airports called "international" but have zero international service. For example, Missoula, MT and Casper, WY. Is it just the name of an airport or is there a qualification to be able to call one's airport an international airport.
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  #79  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2011, 2:17 AM
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Originally Posted by City Of Trees
Question for any of you airport buffs: are there any cities in the US larger than Boise that do not have a designated international airport?
I'd like to add a follow-up question... What IS an "International Airport?" Many cities half Boise's size have airports called "international" but have zero international service. For example, Missoula, MT and Casper, WY. Is it just the name of an airport or is there a qualification to be able to call one's airport an international airport.
Yeah, I'm reading up on it, and it does seem like the term isn't 100% accurate. Still, with some rudimentary Googling I'm having trouble finding a metro area bigger than Boise.
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  #80  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2011, 2:51 AM
isangpogi isangpogi is offline
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Yeah, I'm reading up on it, and it does seem like the term isn't 100% accurate. Still, with some rudimentary Googling I'm having trouble finding a metro area bigger than Boise.
I'm reading up on it too, to try and answer my own question... Seems there is a discrepancy between the amount of international airports in this country and airports with service to international destinations.

If we're talking about cities with international service then there are many larger than Boise without it. Many of those still call themselves international airports. For example, El Paso International Airport, despite close proximity to Mexico, has no international service. Albuquerque (metro pop. 900,000) also has a airport titled international with no international service, same with Tuscon (980,000), Birmingham (1.1 mil) and Jacksonville (1.3 mil).

Omaha's (metro pop. 885,000) Eppley Airfield neither calls itself international nor has any international service.

Conversely, Detroit's "Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County Airport" has no mention of international in its name but is served by Air Canada, Lufthansa and Air France, in addition to international service by Delta to Asia, Europe and Central America.

So it seems to me that the only difference between an international airport and a non-international airport is the instructions the given to the guys who make the sign

Boise Airport is a "landing rights airport," meaning US Customs and Border Patrol are on hand to process private international flights, but must be notified 3 or more hours in advance of intentions to land. Weekends and evenings are "by appointment only," according to BOI's website.

Last edited by isangpogi; Dec 1, 2011 at 3:28 AM.
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