Halifax Stadium Discussion

[elly63]

So if I read you correctly, you assume the stadium would only be used 10 or so times a year by the pro team. So there would be no CPL soccer team (too big of a facility anyway), no university football, rugby or soccer use, no renting out for public use like almost every other stadium in the country, no minor football/soccer/rugby/field lacrosse or athletics use and obviously no covering with a bubble for public use in the winter? Oh yeah, no concerts, trade shows or paid gatherings of any kind either.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by elly63

So if I read you correctly, you assume the stadium would only be used 10 or so times a year by the pro team. So there would be no CPL soccer team (too big of a facility anyway), no university football, rugby or soccer use, no renting out for public use like almost every other stadium in the country, no minor football/soccer/rugby/field lacrosse or athletics use and obviously no covering with a bubble for public use in the winter? Oh yeah, no concerts, trade shows or paid gatherings of any kind either.

I don't assume anything. But I do know that the income will never cover the operating and financing costs. University football here is a joke, as described recently by Alex J Walling in a very good interview where he spelled out the money spent by Laval compared with the chump change spent by Maritime universities. As for concerts what can I say - we now know the only people who made money were the performers. Covering with a bubble - that is funny. I was at BC place for a Whitecaps game in May. I have seen the documentary that describes the delicate construction of the dome and I think the word 'bubble' is nowhere near a proper description of the technical challenges of having a covered/open stadium.
If there are paid gatherings of any kind I assume the CFL owners are willing to put their hands in their pockets, build a stadium, take a risk in their private venture and stay away from the public purse. Feel free to send your 4 or 5 figure donation and urge your friends to do like wise.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

no - I don't think the circulation issues in Bayers Lake can be changed enough to handle the additional traffic. I also think it would be VERY tough to make the industrial park attractive place in which to live.

Ottawa's Kanata example should be proof that people don't move to the outskirts when a new sports stadium is built. They stay where they are and commute back and forth. Traffic would be an absolute nightmare in Bayers Lake on game days. Dartmouth Crossing is probably slightly better for potential traffic congestion.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Colin May

I don't assume anything. But I do know that the income will never cover the operating and financing costs. University football here is a joke, as described recently by Alex J Walling in a very good interview where he spelled out the money spent by Laval compared with the chump change spent by Maritime universities. As for concerts what can I say - we now know the only people who made money were the performers. Covering with a bubble - that is funny. I was at BC place for a Whitecaps game in May. I have seen the documentary that describes the delicate construction of the dome and I think the word 'bubble' is nowhere near a proper description of the technical challenges of having a covered/open stadium.

You neglected to tell us about Laval's football benefactor Jacques Tanguay who secures money for their program. Again we are left to assume you think universities should be doling out money for sports instead of being in the business of education if SMU is such a joke.

Your opinions on stadium use aren't very valid if you don't know what a bubble is.

If they're not making money from concerts, Halifax should be negotiating deals like Moncton where you start from a break even standpoint and make more money the more people show up.

Yup, if this was soccer you'd be all over it. If this keeps steamrolling by the time the CPL gets going (if ever, after what came out of FCE) a CFL stadium will be the only place for a CPL team to play.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Colin May

I don't assume anything. But I do know that the income will never cover the operating and financing costs. University football here is a joke, as described recently by Alex J Walling in a very good interview where he spelled out the money spent by Laval compared with the chump change spent by Maritime universities.

I won't pretend to know for certain what the cost-benefit analysis of university sports are, but I would prefer not to see an arms race in spending by universities on coaches, facilities, etc. I'd rather see schools hiring professors, spending on research, etc.

Ponying up for sports--unless it can be demonstrated to pay for itself and then some via increased public profile or student recruitment, or whatever--is a waste of money.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I won't pretend to know for certain what the cost-benefit analysis of university sports are, but I would prefer not to see an arms race in spending by universities on coaches, facilities, etc. I'd rather see schools hiring professors, spending on research, etc.

Ponying up for sports--unless it can be demonstrated to pay for itself and then some via increased public profile or student recruitment, or whatever--is a waste of money.

Amen to that!

I think it's a 'joke' when universities prioritize their sports programs to such an extent. They are schools, for god's sake, not facilitators of sports farm teams. As far as I'm concerned, university sports should be dialed down to extra curricular activities for students to enjoy, and not some kind of promotional tool with all the foolishness that comes along with it.

The CFL is a professional league, and thus any team should be financially viable once it's up and running, but I see no problem with a little public funding to get it started up, from the point of view of being an investment for the city/province. Of course, all the due diligence needs to come along with it to ensure that it is a good investment and not the typical throwing money at dying industries like is usually done in Nova Scotia.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by elly63

You neglected to tell us about Laval's football benefactor Jacques Tanguay who secures money for their program. Again we are left to assume you think universities should be doling out money for sports instead of being in the business of education if SMU is such a joke.

Your opinions on stadium use aren't very valid if you don't know what a bubble is.

If they're not making money from concerts, Halifax should be negotiating deals like Moncton where you start from a break even standpoint and make more money the more people show up.

Yup, if this was soccer you'd be all over it. If this keeps steamrolling by the time the CPL gets going (if ever, after what came out of FCE) a CFL stadium will be the only place for a CPL team to play.

If this was soccer I would not be all over it. If you want to run a private sports business, fill your boots and use your own money. The Moncton concerts have never made money for the city and the fullcost of the facilities were never disclosed to the council until well after completion. HRM CAO Dube was in on the secrecy at Moncton where he was city manager.
So tell me what a 'bubble' is.
My reference to 'chump change' re varsity football was a reference to and not an endorsement of the millions poured into Laval. I neither want nor expect SMU to obtain a similar sugar daddy. I did not remember the name of the donor but I do remember Walling spelling out the difference in the funds available to the two universities.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Colin May

So tell me what a 'bubble' is.

[MonctonRad]

Pretty boring for the spectators in the stands.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Pretty boring for the spectators in the stands.

Cheap shot, retracted in the interest of playing nice in the sandbox

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by elly63

Cheap shot, retracted in the interest of playing nice in the sandbox

Uh... I take it as a joke. A rather humourous one actually... picturing fans shivering in the stands, listening to the game happening within the bubble, maybe watching it on their phones...

...but maybe I have a warped sense of humour...

[Keith P.]

I figured this was HRM's concept for a "domed stadium".

"Oh, spectators are supposed to be able to SEE the players on the field? That wasn't specified in the RFP! Sorry."

Sort of like the lack of spectator seating in the megabucks 4-pads they've been building. HRM apparently learned next to nothing from the feedback they received after the one in Bedford was built since the one in Burnside is even worse.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Uh... I take it as a joke. A rather humourous one actually... picturing fans shivering in the stands, listening to the game happening within the bubble, maybe watching it on their phones...

...but maybe I have a warped sense of humour...

I liked the original post from MonctonRad, then I posted about something that I thought was more boring than watching a bubble from the stands. Later I thought some people would take offense and removed it.

A little off topic, for those who might not know, the pic above was a shot of Frank Clair (now TD Place) Stadium in Ottawa before the renovation. Two things: the north stand on the right (above photo) has the Ottawa Civic Centre (TD Place Arena) below it and the roof on that stand was cut back significantly to match the esthetic of the rest of the rebuilt stadium (see below)



While I am still off topic, we might as well show what TD Place Stadium looked like when the refurb was finished (below - there have been some changes since) It's a hard one to figure out what the cost for the stadium was because they included the arena's refurb as well.



For our purposes, this is the project that the Hfx ownership group wants to emulate. The full Ottawa redevelopment, cost between $400 million and $500 million, involved refurbishing the stadium and building retail, residential and office buildings and a new urban park which included an outdoor refrigerated rink. IIRC the cost of the stadium and arena refurb was between 110-120 million.

[Colin May]

The only bubble I am concerned about is the ever rising DJI.
McNeil is considering using a private built and owned replacement for the VG, in which case he won't commit political suicide by putting money into a stadium. I don't think Justin is minded to put money into the venture, and Dexter didn't want to put a nickel into the new library - he was too busy bailing out the Bowater pension plan.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Colin May

I don't think Justin is minded to put money into the venture

Aside from a P3, you can get federal money for 2 things, a major international games/event or educational (read university infrastructure) see Hamilton and Winnipeg.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by elly63

Aside from a P3, you can get federal money for 2 things, a major international games/event or educational (read university infrastructure) see Hamilton and Winnipeg.

Don't forget apology reparations.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by elly63

I liked the original post from MonctonRad, then I posted about something that I thought was more boring than watching a bubble from the stands. Later I thought some people would take offense and removed it.

I understand. Now you've piqued my curiosity as to what you had originally posted...

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Don't forget apology reparations.

And my left winging friends have now added Maoist struggle sessions, like they have at Wilfrid Laurier Univ

[q12]

ATLANTIC SCHOONERS were just trademarked!

http://www.ic.gc.ca/app/opic-cipo/tr...ng=eng&tab=reg

[c-way-dude]

http://thechronicleherald.ca/novasco...ion-discussion