HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum
     
Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #201  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2019, 4:06 PM
Sun Belt's Avatar
Sun Belt Sun Belt is offline
Love it or leave it : )
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: The Envy of the World
Posts: 4,522
Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Have you been to Detroit?
Not since the population was north of 700k -- speaking of populations:

L.A. city population: 3,990,456
Detroit city population: 672,662
Difference: 3.31 million

Detroit MSA: 4.29 million spread out over 3,888.4 sq mi
L.A. city: 4 million, over 468 sq. mi

L.A. city nearly contains the entire population Detroit MSA, yet uses 12% of the land to do so. Yup, they sure seem similar in nearly every respect.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #202  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2019, 4:10 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 2,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Belt View Post
Not since the population was north of 700k -- speaking of populations:

L.A. city population: 3,990,456
Detroit city population: 672,662
Difference: 3.31 million

Detroit MSA: 4.29 million spread out over 3,888.4 sq mi
L.A. city: 4 million, over 468 sq. mi

L.A. city nearly contains the entire population Detroit MSA, yet uses 12% of the land to do so. Yup, they sure seem similar in nearly every respect.
Do you care to make anymore obvious points that the rest of us obviously already understand?

Although, I'll point out, since you want to be dense, that Metro Detroit has twice the population density that Metro LA does.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #203  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2019, 4:48 PM
Sun Belt's Avatar
Sun Belt Sun Belt is offline
Love it or leave it : )
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: The Envy of the World
Posts: 4,522
Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Do you care to make anymore obvious points that the rest of us obviously already understand?

Although, I'll point out, since you want to be dense, that Metro Detroit has twice the population density that Metro LA does.
Only when you include areas where nobody actually lives.

Here's the reality:

Los Angeles:
2010 Urban Area population: 12,150,996
Land Area: 1,736 square miles
Population density: 6,999.3 people per square mile

Detroit:
2010 Urban Area Population: 3,734,090
Land Area: 3,463 square miles
Population Density: 2,792.5 people per square mile

It should be noted that Los Angeles UA is the most dense metro in the United States, followed by San Francisco and San Jose.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #204  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2019, 5:01 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 2,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Belt View Post
It should be noted that Los Angeles UA is the most dense metro in the United States, followed by San Francisco and San Jose.
Not really, and you already know why.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #205  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2019, 5:05 PM
Sun Belt's Avatar
Sun Belt Sun Belt is offline
Love it or leave it : )
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: The Envy of the World
Posts: 4,522
Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Not really, and you already know why.
I thought the Urban Area metric was preferred by most on this site?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #206  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2019, 5:15 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 2,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Belt View Post
I thought the Urban Area metric was preferred by most on this site?
So you already know where I'm going. We can caveat this to death but I don't know why you want to invalidate the observations of others, especially about a place you seem to know very little about. You're obviously trolling.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #207  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2019, 5:17 PM
Sun Belt's Avatar
Sun Belt Sun Belt is offline
Love it or leave it : )
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: The Envy of the World
Posts: 4,522
Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
So you already know where I'm going. We can caveat this to death but I don't know why you want to invalidate the observations of others, especially about a place you seem to know very little about. You're obviously trolling.
I'm trolling because I don't think Detroit is similar in nearly every respect to Los Angeles and backed up my opinion with population statistics?

Ok, man.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #208  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2019, 5:27 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 2,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Belt View Post
I'm trolling because I don't think Detroit is similar in nearly every respect to Los Angeles and backed up my opinion with population statistics?

Ok, man.
Literally nobody has said that Detroit and Los Angeles are similar in every respect. You have been arguing against a point that literally no one has been arguing. Yes, that does make you a troll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
After much thought here are North American cities grouped together the most appropriately.

Grouping variables include vernacular architecture and urban layout as well as some intangibles.

Miami/Dallas/Phoenix - very master planned cities (by suburban developers)

Houston -unique

Montreal/new Orleans/Baltimore/Philadelphia - centralized cities with rowhouses

Toronto/Detroit/Los Angeles - early auto era sprawl , although Toronto core architecture somewhat unique

...
If you want to make an objection then object. But you continue to try to invalidate other people who agreed with the assessment and have actually seen both places with their own eyes. And the worst part of it is that you admittedly have little knowledge about Detroit, other than what you've seen in the media. You are demonstrating the absolute worst aspect of the internet right now. It empowers people to think they know more about a subject than they actually do.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #209  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2019, 5:41 PM
dktshb's Avatar
dktshb dktshb is offline
Environmental Sabotage
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: San Francisco/ Los Angeles
Posts: 4,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Belt View Post
I'm trolling because I don't think Detroit is similar in nearly every respect to Los Angeles and backed up my opinion with population statistics?

Ok, man.
No you're not trolling. This person is projecting his trolling. This is a typical pattern you see from this person on threads that may compare Los Angeles. It is best just to ignore him.

Fact LA city is twice as dense as Detroit. Metro LA is one of the top 5 densest in the US:

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2012/...t-metros/3450/

America's Densest Metros by Population-Weighted Density as Compared to Average Density:
Metro Area Population-Weighted Density Average Density
New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY-NJ-PA 31,251 2,826
San Francisco-Oakland-Fremont, CA 12,145 1,755
Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana, CA 12,114 2,646
Honolulu, HI 11,548 1,587
Chicago-Joliet-Naperville, IL-IN-WI 8,613 1,315

Kind of interesting stuff here on densities:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...lation_density
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #210  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2019, 6:16 PM
cabasse's Avatar
cabasse cabasse is offline
jacob jensen
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: morningside, atlanta
Posts: 3,493
la and detroit are both filled with dense sfh neighborhoods and blanketed by a large grid of freeways. (i think dallas applies here too, houston somewhat less WRT freeways, being more of a spoke/belt)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #211  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2019, 6:25 PM
isaidso isaidso is offline
The New Republic
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: United Provinces of America
Posts: 9,371
MONTREAL - BROOKLYN


Both were founded and developed at roughly the same time. One is francophone while the other anglophone but beyond that they look and feel remarkably similar. Large Italian and Jewish communities are present in both but Brooklyn is a lot denser. There's a ton of pre-WW2 row housing in both although the architecture was influenced by different European countries: France and England. They're both stone and feature stairs coming down to the sidewalk with cast iron railings.

The central core of each have the same feel with lots of grand pre-WW2 structures. Montreal's core is a lot busier, of course.

Borough of Brooklyn
Settled: 1634
Area: 183 km2
Population: 2,648,771

City of Montreal
Settled: 1642
Area: 365 km2
Population: 1,704,694


Brooklyn row housing


Courtesy of brick underground


Montreal row housing


Courtesy of teb
__________________
World's First Documented Baseball Game: Beachville, Ontario, June 4th, 1838.
World's First Documented Gridiron Game: University College, Toronto, November 9th, 1861.
Hamilton Tiger-Cats since 1869 & Toronto Argonauts since 1873: North America's 2 oldest pro football teams

Last edited by isaidso; Aug 25, 2019 at 6:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #212  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2019, 6:42 PM
Sun Belt's Avatar
Sun Belt Sun Belt is offline
Love it or leave it : )
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: The Envy of the World
Posts: 4,522
Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Literally nobody has said that Detroit and Los Angeles are similar in every respect. You have been arguing against a point that literally no one has been arguing. Yes, that does make you a troll.
Thread title:
What two cities do you find most similar in nearly every respect?

Discussion in the thread: Los Angeles and Detroit.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #213  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2019, 6:58 PM
Quixote's Avatar
Quixote Quixote is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,961
Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
So you already know where I'm going. We can caveat this to death but I don't know why you want to invalidate the observations of others, especially about a place you seem to know very little about. You're obviously trolling.
There’s definitely been a lot of circular arguments in this thread, but I can’t help but feel like you in particular have been a bit all over the place from bringing up personal (family) and cultural (Motown) connections to stating that the cities’ respective Art Deco buildings could be swapped for one another (when objectively speaking that’s certainly not the case) but at the same time going as far as to nitpick why the buildings used in Seinfeld are so obviously not NYC (arguing against something nobody was saying).

I don’t think you’re a troll, but you definitely seem to have an emotional stake in the matter and are clearly “triggered.”
__________________
“Stop being a spectator ... and start being an active participant.”

Stephen Duneier
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #214  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2019, 6:59 PM
isaidso isaidso is offline
The New Republic
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: United Provinces of America
Posts: 9,371
A Dutch visitor who just arrived from LA said Toronto felt a lot like LA to her. I thought it was an odd comparison but is there some validity to it? I've not been to LA so it's hard for me to say.

On the surface they're both multi-nodal and have big heavily used freeways. A lot of LA and Toronto were built 1945-1995 and do have many similar characteristics. The climate is obviously different and downtowns of each are different. Perhaps they are similar in lots of other ways though?
__________________
World's First Documented Baseball Game: Beachville, Ontario, June 4th, 1838.
World's First Documented Gridiron Game: University College, Toronto, November 9th, 1861.
Hamilton Tiger-Cats since 1869 & Toronto Argonauts since 1873: North America's 2 oldest pro football teams
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #215  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2019, 7:06 PM
dc_denizen's Avatar
dc_denizen dc_denizen is online now
Selfie-stick vendor
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: New York Suburbs
Posts: 6,499
Philadelphia is a lot more comparable to montreal than brooklyn

Brooklyn lacks a large commercial core thanks to its proximity to manhattan
Brooklyn has 3x the population density of Montreal
Brooklyn generally has taller brownstones than Montreal and more apartment buildings

Philadelphia and Montreal both have older commercial cores with office architecture from different eras
Both have similar population densities
Both have a fair amount of nice rowhouses
Both have lots of modest rowhouses
Both have old wealthy single family neighborhoods
Both suffered due to competition with a more dynamic neighboring city for many decades
__________________
Joined the bus on the 33rd seat
By the doo-doo room with the reek replete
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #216  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2019, 7:08 PM
Quixote's Avatar
Quixote Quixote is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,961
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
A Dutch visitor who just arrived from LA said Toronto felt a lot like LA to her. I thought it was an odd comparison but is there some validity to it? I've not been to LA so it's hard for me to say.

On the surface they're both multi-nodal and have big heavily used freeways. A lot of LA and Toronto were built 1945-1995 and do have many similar characteristics. The climate is obviously different and downtowns of each are different. Perhaps they are similar in lots of other ways though?
Both are cities that have solid pre-war (WW2) bones with modest beginnings and explosive post-war growth. Like Toronto, LA is heavily gridded and lacks a certain polish because it was never built with the grandeur of cities like Baltimore, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Detroit, etc., let alone New York, Philadelphia, Boston, DC, Chicago, and SF. Look at historic photos of LA in the early 20th century and you’ll see lots of low-rise buildings, single-story retail strips, and power lines everywhere.

Wilshire’s “fraternal twin” is Yonge Street, not Detroit’s Woodward Avenue. LA’s equivalent of Woodward would be Huntington/Foothill which takes you from DT all the way to the Inland Empire.
__________________
“Stop being a spectator ... and start being an active participant.”

Stephen Duneier
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #217  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2019, 1:08 AM
kool maudit's Avatar
kool maudit kool maudit is offline
five one foreigner
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 11,345
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #218  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2019, 1:26 AM
Crawford Crawford is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 18,874
Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
The exterior stairwell would be a dead giveaway that the building isn't in NYC. The show couldn't have pulled that off in the social media era. They would've been called out from every direction.

Ironically, exterior stairwells were non-existent in pre-war NYC, and hardly any existed in the 90s, but they are becoming common now in new construction buildings.
It's funny how easy it is to fool viewers, though. Most people are pretty ignorant re. urban streetscapes, or maybe they just don't care.

This is the exterior of the Seinfeld building. An intern scanning LA on Streetview for 10 minutes could probably find a more appropriate building (heck, there's one that would work around the corner):
https://www.google.com/maps/place/75...4d-118.2930867

Putting aside the fact there's a Taco Bell drive-thru across the street, the lawn fronting the building screams "old building anywhere but NYC". The Mediterranean foliage and definitely-not-NYC facade are nice added touches.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #219  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2019, 1:50 PM
suburbanite's Avatar
suburbanite suburbanite is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,609
I can see the LA-Toronto comparisons as cities that grew at similar times from more modest prewar beginnings.

Toronto still follows more of a traditional East Coast development pattern with the more desirable neighbourhoods (both for young people and the traditional wealthy SFH areas) closest to the core, and typically you expect prices and general urban activity to decline as you move outwards . Toronto is multi-nodal with high-ruse clusters scattered throughout the core, but they tend to be more immigrant-heavy, and feel somewhat superficial maybe? Like they aren't really destinations for a ton of people who don't live there. I don't think many people who live downtown would never go to Mississauga or Scarborough City Center for entertainment. I feel like the same isn't true in LA with Santa Monica and all the various beaches (Venice, Manhattan, Hermosa, etc.).

LA is pretty unique in that regard with highly desirable areas for young people separated from the core by miles of low-density detached neighborhoods.
__________________
Discontented suburbanite since 1994
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #220  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2019, 1:58 PM
LA21st LA21st is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by suburbanite View Post
I can see the LA-Toronto comparisons as cities that grew at similar times from more modest prewar beginnings.

Toronto still follows more of a traditional East Coast development pattern with the more desirable neighbourhoods (both for young people and the traditional wealthy SFH areas) closest to the core, and typically you expect prices and general urban activity to decline as you move outwards . Toronto is multi-nodal with high-ruse clusters scattered throughout the core, but they tend to be more immigrant-heavy, and feel somewhat superficial maybe? Like they aren't really destinations for a ton of people who don't live there. I don't think many people who live downtown would never go to Mississauga or Scarborough City Center for entertainment. I feel like the same isn't true in LA with Santa Monica and all the various beaches (Venice, Manhattan, Hermosa, etc.).

LA is pretty unique in that regard with highly desirable areas for young people separated from the core by miles of low-density detached neighborhoods.
I wouldn't say they're low density neighborhoods. Spread out? Yes. But between downtown LA and Santa Monica/Venice, it's pretty urban and walkable, especially compared to the Miamis, Atlantas, Houstons etc.

And I don't know if it's because of rideshare or urban infill, increased tourism, but there is just alot more pedestrian activity throughout the city than 5-10 years ago.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts

Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:59 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.