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  #1  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2007, 10:20 PM
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Paris, museum city

Welcome in the museum city of Paris at 2 km of Notre Dame

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  #2  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2007, 10:56 PM
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I did not know Paris was like this. It lokks so plain.
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  #3  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2007, 2:47 AM
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Paris has many different faces - historic core, riverfront, La Defence, big parks, social housing/commiblocks, etc. This is one of them. It may not be a major tourist attraction, but I do not think of it as "plain".
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  #4  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2007, 8:50 AM
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At 500 meters of the Eiffel tower

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  #5  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2007, 11:09 PM
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Man you surpass youself. Aren't you embarassed to post this stuff? To showcase this utterly bland and forgettable place to represent Paris? It seems to me that you hate the real Paris that everyone else loves. You always post threads of some ugly grafitti in the suburbs to show that Paris is "ghetto" or, in this case, that dull-as-ditchwater new district near the Biblioteque Nationale to show that it's "modern". And all of this is motivated by some tragic desire to overturn people's stereotypes that Paris is a "museum city" - a charge that seems to have psychologically wounded you. Here's my take: central Paris is a museum city. But so what? It's an attractive and beautiful musem. These peripheral areas may be modern (whoopie-doo.... ) but they're also unattractive and generally uninteresting. Rome is another gorgeous and fascinating museum city surrounded by boring modern suburbs. Do you think anyone is actually interested in those suburbs? Do you think people would fly from around the world to see them? No. They're just boring. They come to see the museum part in the centre. Now get over your insecurity and accept Paris for what it is.
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  #6  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2007, 5:26 AM
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Welcome at 300m of Louvre

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  #7  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2007, 12:21 PM
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^ FFS if you want to show a modern glass building close to the Louvre then why not show the famous pyramids? They're inside the courtyard! Any chance of a response to my criticisms above?
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  #8  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2007, 12:36 PM
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No the Louvres is too easy.

Even if the center of Paris is not as modern as the center of London, that's doesn't say that Paris is a museum city.

Office U/C in CBD (Paris QCA).
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  #9  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2007, 1:18 PM
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^ But central Paris is something of a museum city. It shouldn't be any other way. Large swathes of London, included part of central London (especially the City), were bombed in WWII, then redeveloped cheaply and badly in 50s and 60s, and those sites are now being redeveloped again to a higher standard. This is not the case in Paris or even the West End/Westminster in London. Those areas should remain generally protected from development aside from the small number of sites already occuppied my modern buildings (also excepting redevelopment behind existing facades which is fine imo). And when I accuse Paris of being a museum city I'm talking about its lifestyle as much as its buildings. I reckon London must open about 10 new restaurants for every one that opens in Paris. There's a lot more nightlife in central London too. The Parisian lifestyle is much more traditional than London's.
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  #10  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2007, 2:18 PM
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Even Paris change. (Execpt if a the gree Baupin become the new mayor of Paris, in this case Paris will become a museum city )

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=139326


The yuppie Parisian lifestyle is traditional, even if we see only that in american movie it is a very small part of Paris population. The average parisian live like the londoner (eat ethnic foods, drink at Starbucks...).

The night life of Paris has changed since 2002 and the night bus network is a way bigger than in 2002.

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  #11  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2007, 3:06 PM
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Its interesting to see a different side of Paris, rather than the usual Haussmann Boulevards, and Eiffle Tower/Arc Du Triomphe/Louvre etc.

I don't understand what the problem is mercutio?

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  #12  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2007, 3:26 PM
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Paris is a city which is much more vibrant and dynamic than London. And the reason is rather simple, the city is much more packed. It's denser. Hence activities are much more concentrated giving that vibrancy feeling which no district in London can match. Oxford street may look overcrowded in the London context, but in the Paris context, it would be another average sized shopping street... granted a crowded one but not particularly more than rue de Rennes or rue de Rivoli. It's all a matter of contrast... and the fact Oxford street is located in an area which is relatively quiet makes its crowds more noticeable than it would in the center of Bombay or Hong Kong.

In the western world, I see only two cities where activities form a continuum all over a rather large central district: that would be Paris (especially the right bank) and the island of Manhattan (especially south of Central Park). In most other western cities, either the center is much smaller, or the activity is sparsed in several more differenciated neighbourhoods.

Some smaller districts of Paris have indeed a museum feeling, I think generally of the left bank, especially around rue des Ecoles, Pantheon and Sorbonne. Others have even what I would call a theme park feeling, the best example is probably place du Tertre in Montmartre which is obscenely fake to please tourists. However, this is far to be a rule. Even the medieval district of the Marais, on the right bank, is too much alive to be considered "museum-like".

Paris is currently growing fastly, it's getting denser too. Between 2000 and 2005, the 4 central departments have seen their population rising from 6.164 million to 6.408 million, and all this in an area less than half the size of the Greater London. Like many other cities in the world, the demography, as much as the economy (Paris being the 2nd city worldwide hosting the most Fortune Global 500 headquarters), enforces Paris to be constantly evolving: create, devellop and make grow newer disticts, preserve or upgrade older districts.

That evolution isn't necessarily following the right track. It depends from a district to another. I think it's impossible to understand a city without considering it as a living being. Just like a forest, some of its areas flourish, while others get old.

A nice example would be the ugly district of the Olympiades which was totally lifeless in the 70's, and which is today the center of Paris main chinatown, one of the most vibrant area on the left bank. The heart of the Asian community in Western Europe. A counter example would be Saint-Michel, which is rapidly getting fake and soulless. When just 10 years ago rue de la Huchette was still a thrilling area known for its Greek community, it has been today totally abandonned to tourist shops and restaurants.

That perpetual evolution of Paris makes it too alive to be considered as fossilized as a museum city would imply it to be.
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  #13  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2007, 4:27 PM
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Don't say thats Metropolitan, , it is very dangerous with Mercurio, aka Monkey.

For me, Paris and London activities are different and similar, in some way Paris could be more vibrant, in some other way London could be vibrent.

But It is not the subject of this thread.
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  #14  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2007, 4:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato Ku View Post
Don't say thats Metropolitan, , it is very dangerous with Mercurio, aka Monkey.
I know this. Actually, that's where lies all the fun in my post.

Though what I say is true. No other city in the western world match the density of activities of Manhattan and the city of Paris in an area of 50 km² or so. That's true as much regarding demographics stats, offices space stats, transportation stats and so on. It's just silly to consider any of both to be "dead".
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  #15  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2007, 6:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropolitan View Post
Paris is a city which is much more vibrant and dynamic than London. And the reason is rather simple, the city is much more packed. It's denser. Hence activities are much more concentrated giving that vibrancy feeling which no district in London can match. Oxford street may look overcrowded in the London context, but in the Paris context, it would be another average sized shopping street... granted a crowded one but not particularly more than rue de Rennes or rue de Rivoli. It's all a matter of contrast... and the fact Oxford street is located in an area which is relatively quiet makes its crowds more noticeable than it would in the center of Bombay or Hong Kong.
LOL. Oxford Street is busier than any street I have seen in Paris. Paris is more dense only in terms of residential population. The most densly populated districts in Paris are actually rather quiet. The City of London is the densest place in Europe in terms of building density, daytime population, and commerical space. The West End of London is denser than any part of Paris in terms of shopping, nightlife, entertainment and general streetlife and buzz.
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Originally Posted by Metropolitan View Post
In the western world, I see only two cities where activities form a continuum all over a rather large central district: that would be Paris (especially the right bank) and the island of Manhattan (especially south of Central Park). In most other western cities, either the center is much smaller, or the activity is sparsed in several more differenciated neighbourhoods.
Neither Manhattan nor any part of central Paris have such a large shopping, nightlife, and entertainment district as London's West End. The West End has no parallels anywhere in the western world. Shinjuku and Shibuya in Tokyo are the only comparable districts on the same scale that I've seen elsewhere in the world.
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Originally Posted by Metropolitan View Post
Some smaller districts of Paris have indeed a museum feeling, I think generally of the left bank, especially around rue des Ecoles, Pantheon and Sorbonne. Others have even what I would call a theme park feeling, the best example is probably place du Tertre in Montmartre which is obscenely fake to please tourists. However, this is far to be a rule. Even the medieval district of the Marais, on the right bank, is too much alive to be considered "museum-like".
I like the Marais. It is my favourite district in Paris. However the streets and buildings are all old and rather quaint and around Place des Vosges feels almost as "museum" as the Left Bank.
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Originally Posted by Metropolitan View Post
Paris is currently growing fastly, it's getting denser too. Between 2000 and 2005, the 4 central departments have seen their population rising from 6.164 million to 6.408 million, and all this in an area less than half the size of the Greater London. Like many other cities in the world, the demography, as much as the economy (Paris being the 2nd city worldwide hosting the most Fortune Global 500 headquarters), enforces Paris to be constantly evolving: create, devellop and make grow newer disticts, preserve or upgrade older districts.
The City of Paris is actually losing population. The city becomes less and less competitive too. Paris has rallied against Frankfurt but seems to have fallen further behind London. As a financial centre it is now certainly less important than Hong Kong and will probably be overtaken by Dubai and Singapore before long.
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A nice example would be the ugly district of the Olympiades which was totally lifeless in the 70's, and which is today the center of Paris main chinatown, one of the most vibrant area on the left bank. The heart of the Asian community in Western Europe.
Oh nonsense. London has a much larger E/SE Asian community than Paris and the only Chinatown that is really worthy of the name. I think Olympiades is ugly and bleak. It's one of the only districts in central Paris I would describe as "ugly".
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Originally Posted by Metropolitan View Post
A counter example would be Saint-Michel, which is rapidly getting fake and soulless. When just 10 years ago rue de la Huchette was still a thrilling area known for its Greek community, it has been today totally abandonned to tourist shops and restaurants.
Saint Michel is certainly touristy but at least it's attractive.

Last edited by Mercutio; Oct 12, 2007 at 6:31 PM.
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  #16  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2007, 6:26 PM
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Its interesting to see a different side of Paris, rather than the usual Haussmann Boulevards, and Eiffle Tower/Arc Du Triomphe/Louvre etc.

I don't understand what the problem is mercutio?

It's the desperation of his constantly trying to prove that Paris is modern and cool - and and his seeming hatred of the real Paris - the Paris that is loved by almost everyone. I see some of this same attitude in the UK forum at SSC too and it's so philistine. You get the impression that if they were the mayor they would knock down all the beautiful old districts and rebuild then in concrete and glass and Starbucks or whatever else they feel they need to prove the city is "modern". People like that don't appreciate what they have.

I think European cities do have a unique problem and balance to strike here. They have to preserve what makes them special and beautiful and yet also be dynamic, exciting, and new. London is perhaps fortunate in that it has more extensive possibility to be both right in the centre - unlike so many other cities in Europe. Paris and Rome, which have almost entirely preserved centres, have more difficult task, and it's one that I don't envy. An all-modern city like Dubai has no soul. Somewhere like Rome or Venice has no future except as a tourist museum. I think Paris is in a much better situation than Venice but it doesn't have as many options as London or New York. That's the issue here....
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  #17  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2007, 7:15 PM
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Bla bla bla bla bla....

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Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
The City of Paris is actually losing population.
It is wrong.
Since the 2000's the population of inner Paris grow.
and don't forget that inner Paris has less than 20% of Paris urban area population.
The dense part of the urban area form a city of 6.7 million inhabitants


Quote:
Paris and Rome, which have almost entirely preserved centres
, that's depend the district.

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You get the impression that if they were the mayor they would knock down all the beautiful old districts and rebuild then in concrete and glass and Starbucks or whatever else they feel they need to prove the city is "modern". People like that don't appreciate what they have.
I like the old districts, but you get the impression that Paris is entierely old wich is false.

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It's the desperation of his constantly trying to prove that Paris is modern and cool - and and his seeming hatred of the real Paris - the Paris that is loved by almost everyone
If it is not the case 90% of world big cities aren't cool

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his seeming hatred of the real Paris - the Paris that is loved by almost everyone
Mercurio if you have lived in Paris you show know the Eiffle Tower/Arc Du Triomphe/Louvre is not the real Paris. Parisians don't go here. Bercy is more the real paris than the Louvre.


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Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
. The City of London is the densest place in Europe in terms of building density, daytime population, and commerical space.
The City of London is les than 1% of London, so it don't represent the entire city.

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Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
London has a much larger E/SE Asian community than Paris and the only Chinatown that is really worthy of the name. I think Olympiades is ugly and bleak.
London has more south asian but Paris has more east asian, even chinese sites said this.
Actually the oldest chinatown of Paris was distroyed in the 1980's, the second oldest is not atractive and become less active, Olympiade become much and much vibran every years, and with the newest subway station Olympiade it will be faster. The other chinatown is in Belleville, you ask Kilegoretrout (Canadian who as visited the ethnic district of London and Paris) about it.


Quote:
Neither Manhattan nor any part of central Paris have such a large shopping, nightlife, and entertainment district as London's West End. The West End has no parallels anywhere in the western world. Shinjuku and Shibuya in Tokyo are the only comparable districts on the same scale that I've seen elsewhere in the world

In this message I just see a blatant chauvinism.

Quote:
Paris has rallied against Frankfurt but seems to have fallen further behind London. As a financial centre it is now certainly less important than Hong Kong and will probably be overtaken by Dubai and Singapore before long
This situation will change since Sarkozy does not like to see this.


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I think Paris is in a much better situation than Venice but it doesn't have as many options as London or New York. That's the issue here.
Who know ? with a big financial crisi maybe.

The only fact that I see is that Mercurio hasn't been in Paris since a long time.

The problem of Mercurio is for prove that London is cool (That's everyone know) he should bash Paris and New York.

London has the best.....
London is the biggest....
London is better than........
London is......

And I know that Mercurio don't hate Paris, in some could be very positive about it (even in economy) but not he speaks of London.

I haven't created to prove that Paris is cooler than London or the oposite. It was just for show that the general vision of Paris is wrong.
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  #18  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2007, 7:34 PM
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Mercutio, better known as Monkey on another forum, busy trolling and bashing Paris. What's new!
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Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
Oxford Street is busier than any street I have seen in Paris.
Personal opinion is not the same as proven fact.
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Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
The City of London is the densest place in Europe in terms of building density, daytime population, and commerical space.
Err... no. That would be La Défense. It was already shown in previous threads that it has a higher floor space and daytime population density than la City de Londres.
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Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
The West End of London is denser than any part of Paris in terms of shopping, nightlife, entertainment and general streetlife and buzz.
Claiming something without a source or reference, how convenient. One could also claim that Glasgow is more lively than London then. Why not.
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Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
Neither Manhattan nor any part of central Paris have such a large shopping, nightlife, and entertainment district as London's West End. The West End has no parallels anywhere in the western world. Shinjuku and Shibuya in Tokyo are the only comparable districts on the same scale that I've seen elsewhere in the world.
Personal opinion is not the same as proven fact.
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Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
The City of Paris is actually losing population.
Wrong. As Minato Ku has already explained, since the 1999 census the City of Paris has seen a population increase, a trend also seen in Manhattan, Inner London, and even the central wards of Tokyo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
The city becomes less and less competitive too. Paris has rallied against Frankfurt but seems to have fallen further behind London. As a financial centre it is now certainly less important than Hong Kong and will probably be overtaken by Dubai and Singapore before long.
Personal opinion is not the same as proven fact.
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Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
London has a much larger E/SE Asian community than Paris.
Nice try, but again it was already shown in previous threads that the Eastern/Southeastern Asian community is larger in Paris than in London. At the 2001 UK census there were 135,000 residents of Greater London who were born in Eastern and Southeastern Asia (http://www.london.gov.uk/gla/publica...te-2006-09.pdf). In Greater Paris in 2005 there were 208,000 immigrants from Eastern and Southeastern Asia (http://www.insee.fr/fr/recensement/n...s-immigres.xls), a figure which does not include 20,500 colonial citizens from French Indochina who were granted French citizenship at birth in Indochina and are therefore not counted as immigrants by French statistics.
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  #19  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2007, 7:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato Ku View Post
Mercurio if you have lived in Paris you show know the Eiffle Tower/Arc Du Triomphe/Louvre is not the real Paris. Parisians don't go here. Bercy is more the real paris than the Louvre.
Bercy? LOL!! How depressing for Paris. Oh well at least there's a decent cinema there....
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Originally Posted by Minato Ku View Post
The City of London is les than 1% of London, so it don't represent the entire city.
I mentioned both the City and the West End - and that is the core of central London.
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Originally Posted by Minato Ku View Post
London has more south asian but Paris has more east asian, even chinese sites said this.
No London has more E/SE Asians too. There are no accurate figures for the ethnic minority populations of Paris/France. However when we debated this before we found that the immigration figures of Chinese were nowhere near capable of supporting the absurd claims being made on some sites out there on the web and by Paris boosters such as Brisavoine. For your information the Chinese population of London is the fastest growing of any major defined group on the UK census. London has emerged as the favoured destination for Chinese investment and about half of all Chinese students in the EU are in Britain. Did you know ther are more daily flights from London to Hong Kong than there are from all french cities to all Chiniese cities combined? And if there are so many Chinese in Paris then how come there are more visits from British citizens to mainland China (source)? A large community in France should lead to a greater volume of contact with China surely! That's especially persuassive given that most of Britain's Chinese don't even come from China but rather from Hong Kong, Singapore, and ethnic Chinese from Malaysia. Britain's total of Chinese students is now comparable with the US (ie 5 x more per capita than the US). London also has Europe's largest Thai, Filipino, Malaysian and Korean communities. The only E/SE Asian communities that are larger in Paris are from Vietnam and Cambodia - and London has quite a lot of those too. I am dating a British-born Vietnamese girl now as it happens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato Ku View Post
Actually the oldest chinatown of Paris was distroyed in the 1980's, the second oldest is not atractive and become less active, Olympiade become much and much vibran every years, and with the newest subway station Olympiade it will be faster. The other chinatown is in Belleville, you ask Kilegoretrout (Canadian who as visited the ethnic district of London and Paris) about it.
Kilgoretrowt has just visited London and Paris for a few days each. I have lived in both cities. Frankly I think I know better than him both in terms of statistics and observation. I actually corrected some of his comments before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato Ku View Post

In this message I just see a blatant chauvinism.
OK tell me one district, just one, in either Manhattan or Paris, that has as large a concentration of shopping, nighlife, and entertainment as London's West End? Come on give up. Neither city has one that's even half the size!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato Ku View Post
This situation will change since Sarkozy does not like to see this.
I think the preferrences of the global markets are a lot bigger than Sarkozy!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato Ku View Post
And I know that Mercurio don't hate Paris, in some could be very positive about it (even in economy) but not he speaks of London.
Metropolitan threw down the gauntlet so....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato Ku View Post
I haven't created to prove that Paris is cooler than London or the oposite. It was just for show that the general vision of Paris is wrong.
But it's your "vision" of Paris that seems so improverished - almost insulting. You have boasted on other threads that Paris has lots of "dark brick buildings like in London or New York" (great! - those buildings are often ugly and are in generally unattractive parts of London and New York). You boast of having Starbucks (and that's a measure of progress? I thought every half arsed shitsville town in the American Mid West has Starbucks?). You boast of Paris's grafitti. I mean some grafitti is cool but most of it is just trashy and ugly. On this thread you are showcasing some utterly bland modern district. You seem fixated, thread after thread, on showing us all the very worst or blandest that Paris has to offer. And, when on SSC one of the other French forumers posted a thread of gorgeous photos he had taken of central Paris, you criticised them as being "too sterotypical". That's why I say I say that you hate Paris - or at least you hate the side of Paris that is actually valuable and attractive to anyone from elsewhere or with a bit of taste.

Last edited by Mercutio; Oct 12, 2007 at 9:25 PM.
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  #20  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2007, 7:59 PM
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stop !!
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