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  #6841  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2019, 5:00 AM
Denver Dweller Denver Dweller is offline
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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
OMG you are so naive.

I was a part of an activist crowd that pushed to create the Environmental Protection Agency. At that time most people didn't even know what "Environmental" referred to or why a protection agency was a good idea.

https://www.epa.gov/history

After I graduated from CU in '71, I later lived in Aspen in the mid-1970's. Boulder and Aspen were two of the most environmentally active places in the country. The arguments were about promoting "clean air and clean water." Later conservation was added to the cause.

For 5 decades Colorado has been the center of environmentalism. Even the Western Slope Republicans have been friends. When your livelihood comes from tourism and/or ranching having clean air and water is important. Even the tourists who would come up from Texas for fly fishing preferred their trout have less rather than more mercury inside.

You should at least have some recall of Gov Ritter's pushing a New Energy Economy. He also got the state to spend tons of $'s on retrofitting the state buildings to be energy efficient. He served from 2007-2011.

https://energy.colostate.edu/people/bill-ritter-jr/


Hickenlooper was Denver's mayor from 2003-2011. He was strong on being green with his tree planting program as well as other things. He spearheaded the passage of the Better Denver Bond Program in 2007 which focused a lot of $'s to improving Denver's parks through waster conservation etc.

No president has done more for environmentalism than President Obama. If you are unfamiliar or have forgotten I'm sure you could still Google it.

It's amazing how today's activists act like saving the planet was just invented. I promise, I've forgotten more about the environment and pollution than you've ever learned.
Wow.....such arrogance. Your frequent derailing and political bullshit on this forum gets very old.
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  #6842  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2019, 10:13 PM
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spr8364 spr8364 is offline
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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
BTW, I panicked 30 years ago when I was told "we had ten years to reverse climate change." Fast forward 30 years and nobody has yet turned into dust.
I'd love to see an article citing this 10 year time frame. I recall the first article I read about "global warming" in 1980ish and there was no real urgency at that time.
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  #6843  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2019, 2:48 PM
laniroj laniroj is offline
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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
The very last thing we need is more Federal Nannyism. I don't want the Federal gubment dictating what morals or values should be enacted at the local level and unless it involves interstate commerce they should respect state's rights as well.

You greatly exaggerate the problem and where it exists. There's lots of land across this country where housing affordability varies substantially. There's loads of people in Denver who survive making minimum wage or at least a lower wage.
TakeFive - with all due respect, this is a view point of older generations. This is not the view point of younger folks who LITERALLY CANT AFFORD LIFE. They choose between healthcare and housing. They cannot save for retirement. They have to have roommates. They can't afford to start families. They pay 50%-75% of their income on housing, leaving little if any for any of life's other necessities. It's not a matter of the issue being widespread...it is - what data might you propose that says otherwise? The best paying jobs are in major metro areas for most people. There are exceptions to this, but for the vast majority this is the reality.

The issue is that the ruling/voting generation of America retains the decision making power and they are thus far resistant to meaningful change (put another way, they are unwilling to share the opportunities they so easily enjoyed). Say what you want, but this is a generational battle and it's only going to get worse.
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  #6844  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2019, 3:00 PM
laniroj laniroj is offline
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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
After I graduated from CU in '71, I later lived in Aspen in the mid-1970's.
To quantify how much the world has changed since then, and to point out the naivety of older generations as to the struggles of younger generations (particularly housing), I will point out the following:

You can no longer move to Aspen after you graduate from college. You couldn't even buy a trailer and park it to camp within 20 miles of Aspen. You couldn't even afford to rent a room in Aspen unless you and 6 of your friends built a bunk in a studio apartment/condo. If you're lucky, you might win a housing lottery (which is so vast you might as well buy a lottery ticket) in Basalt, or Carbondale, or Glenwood Springs, but chances are you're commuting to Aspen from Dotsero or Rifle. If you're really lucky you'd have a prosperous restaurant or the ski company with some housing for you in Glenwood. This is what older folks don't understand - young people do not have the same opportunity that old folks did. If you suggested to a college student that they move to Aspen, unless their folks are 0.5%'ers, that's completely laughable. It's the first time in 500 years that the previous generation of Americans didn't leave the next generation a more prosperous life - I'm a die hard libertarian, and federal nannyism on this topic would ABSOLUTELY promote smaller government and result in the government (as a concept in totality) having much less involvement and say with local matters because local government currently has way too much say. Just an opinion, but federal intervention would absolutely help in this case.
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  #6845  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2019, 3:27 PM
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That's why a little nannyism is improtant on many fronts. Education, safety net, public transit so people can get to work, pushing back on smoking, doing something about climate change, required immunizations...all of these avoid much larger public expenses in the future.

As for what it's like to be 20 today...speaking as a 50-year-old, I agree that costs are higher and opportunities harder to come by today. In my 20s I cooked for a living while paying cash for community college and going to Europe every year, then ended up in a good white collar career without a degree. That's all much harder now.
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  #6846  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2019, 3:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laniroj View Post
To quantify how much the world has changed since then, and to point out the naivety of older generations as to the struggles of younger generations (particularly housing), I will point out the following:

You can no longer move to Aspen after you graduate from college. You couldn't even buy a trailer and park it to camp within 20 miles of Aspen. You couldn't even afford to rent a room in Aspen unless you and 6 of your friends built a bunk in a studio apartment/condo. If you're lucky, you might win a housing lottery (which is so vast you might as well buy a lottery ticket) in Basalt, or Carbondale, or Glenwood Springs, but chances are you're commuting to Aspen from Dotsero or Rifle. If you're really lucky you'd have a prosperous restaurant or the ski company with some housing for you in Glenwood. This is what older folks don't understand - young people do not have the same opportunity that old folks did. If you suggested to a college student that they move to Aspen, unless their folks are 0.5%'ers, that's completely laughable. It's the first time in 500 years that the previous generation of Americans didn't leave the next generation a more prosperous life - I'm a die hard libertarian, and federal nannyism on this topic would ABSOLUTELY promote smaller government and result in the government (as a concept in totality) having much less involvement and say with local matters because local government currently has way too much say. Just an opinion, but federal intervention would absolutely help in this case.
Out of curiosity, I did a quick real estate search on Aspen. Holy crap! I think Aspen might make San Francisco look affordable!
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  #6847  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2019, 5:06 PM
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Interesting project underway in Cherry Creek, a major remodel/expansion of the Inn at Cherry Creek. There is currently a tower crane up and they are doing a lot of demolition work on-site.


http://www.4240architecture.com/on-t...-cherry-creek/

There is also a Shake Shack coming to Cherry Creek at 2nd & Josephine.
https://businessden.com/2019/09/23/s...-neighborhood/
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  #6848  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2019, 9:10 PM
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Looks like this could turn out interesting. The old day care north of city hall to be demo'd for 14 story hotel. This is old news, but the plans just changed from micro housing (yawn) to hotel. PLUS big bonus here, the architect has a pretty amazing portfolio of work i'm sure everyone on this forum recognizes.

https://businessden.com/2019/09/23/r...rom-city-hall/

https://studiogang.com/projects/architecture
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  #6849  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2019, 9:55 PM
SirLucasTheGreat SirLucasTheGreat is offline
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Originally Posted by fleury View Post
Looks like this could turn out interesting. The old day care north of city hall to be demo'd for 14 story hotel. This is old news, but the plans just changed from micro housing (yawn) to hotel. PLUS big bonus here, the architect has a pretty amazing portfolio of work i'm sure everyone on this forum recognizes.

https://businessden.com/2019/09/23/r...rom-city-hall/

https://studiogang.com/projects/architecture
That is an epic portfolio. I would be interested to see if they do something very modernist looking
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  #6850  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2019, 11:17 PM
JB1530 JB1530 is offline
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Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat View Post
That is an epic portfolio. I would be interested to see if they do something very modernist looking
We're working on it. We will likely have some images to share after the first of the year. The City set a very high bar for us in terms of design quality given the other buildings surrounding CC Park - DAM, Kirkland, Clyfford Styll, Central Library, etc. - and we're doing our best to respond. Has been a real treat working with an architect of this caliber, and the project is going to turn out great.
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  #6851  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2019, 3:50 AM
Utah_Dave Utah_Dave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laniroj View Post
To quantify how much the world has changed since then, and to point out the naivety of older generations as to the struggles of younger generations (particularly housing), I will point out the following:

You can no longer move to Aspen after you graduate from college. You couldn't even buy a trailer and park it to camp within 20 miles of Aspen. You couldn't even afford to rent a room in Aspen unless you and 6 of your friends built a bunk in a studio apartment/condo. If you're lucky, you might win a housing lottery (which is so vast you might as well buy a lottery ticket) in Basalt, or Carbondale, or Glenwood Springs, but chances are you're commuting to Aspen from Dotsero or Rifle. If you're really lucky you'd have a prosperous restaurant or the ski company with some housing for you in Glenwood. This is what older folks don't understand - young people do not have the same opportunity that old folks did. If you suggested to a college student that they move to Aspen, unless their folks are 0.5%'ers, that's completely laughable. It's the first time in 500 years that the previous generation of Americans didn't leave the next generation a more prosperous life - I'm a die hard libertarian, and federal nannyism on this topic would ABSOLUTELY promote smaller government and result in the government (as a concept in totality) having much less involvement and say with local matters because local government currently has way too much say. Just an opinion, but federal intervention would absolutely help in this case.
I’m going to chime in on this one if you don’t mind. I was born in 1978 so I’m on the tail end of generation X just so you know where I’m coming from. Your best opportunity is not going to be Aspen anymore. The younger generation can’t follow in the previous generations footsteps and have the same opportunities. You will need to create your own opportunities and generate your own incomes in new ways. I’m sure you already know this as well. I am concerned about anyone spending much more then 50% of their income on housing, unless it’s part of their investments. The key for the younger crown is living below your means, maybe further out or in the bad parts of town. There are also smaller towns that are plenty affordable compared to the Denver’s and Austin’s of the country. I’m not up to speed on current affordability in the smaller cities but Boise, Ogden, and other like sized cities are good bets to save on housing. Young folks also need multiple streams of income as they mature into the work force. 1-2 side incomes is a great goal that will come with time and I think is really key for the average person who didn’t get lucky in life or really have their shit together when they were young.

The biggest head wind to the younger group is the number of investors driving up costs, both locally and internationally. I would also recommend getting some experience in the trades. That’s such a great way to supplement your income on the side. Money makes money.

Last edited by Utah_Dave; Sep 24, 2019 at 4:05 AM.
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  #6852  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2019, 9:21 AM
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Originally Posted by laniroj View Post
TakeFive - with all due respect, this is a view point of older generations. This is not the view point of younger folks who LITERALLY CANT AFFORD LIFE. They choose between healthcare and housing. They cannot save for retirement. They have to have roommates. They can't afford to start families. They pay 50%-75% of their income on housing, leaving little if any for any of life's other necessities. It's not a matter of the issue being widespread...it is - what data might you propose that says otherwise? The best paying jobs are in major metro areas for most people. There are exceptions to this, but for the vast majority this is the reality.

The issue is that the ruling/voting generation of America retains the decision making power and they are thus far resistant to meaningful change (put another way, they are unwilling to share the opportunities they so easily enjoyed). Say what you want, but this is a generational battle and it's only going to get worse.
Sounds like not only is your glass half full it's running on empty. Sorry about you ongoing Boomer befuddlement. You're obviously insistent on stewing in your own strange brew.

Over the last decade twenty times as many young millionaires have been created in a given year than back in 'my day' (on inflation adjusted $'s).

This economy we live in is amazing; the continuous tech innovation has been fueled totally by free-market capitalism (using those terms in a general and not a pure sense). We had a Russian immigrant as a Google co-founder; Microsoft has an Indian immigrant CEO. Our tech economy would be floundering if not for venture capital - the epitome of free market capitalism.

Who do you think is building all those shiny new buildings in downtown Denver that everyone admires. They're capitalists. Same for Seattle which is a tech and Amazon on steroids-driven economy.

I'm confident that our tech world is just like me. They're socially tolerant and empathetic but otherwise capitalist loving geeks.

Do poor people own smart phones? Maybe not the latest I-phone but yes they do; how amazing is that? Do lower socioeconomic people own cars? Yes they do; often acquired through the gray market and studies by both USC and UCLA have shown how having a car has provided much better access to jobs and has raised their living standard. Do poor people own flat screen tee vee's? Yes, a great many of them do.

Other than to say that socialism has proven by those countries where it exists to not be an answer to anything, I'm not interested in re-debating all of today's problems and political talking points. I look to the right; I look to the left; you're all nuts.
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  #6853  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2019, 9:48 AM
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Originally Posted by laniroj View Post
You can no longer move to Aspen after you graduate from college. You couldn't even buy a trailer and park it to camp within 20 miles of Aspen. You couldn't even afford to rent a room in Aspen unless you and 6 of your friends built a bunk in a studio apartment/condo. If you're lucky, you might win a housing lottery (which is so vast you might as well buy a lottery ticket) in Basalt, or Carbondale, or Glenwood Springs
Yes, back in the day Aspen was ski-bum heaven but many of us found better housing in Basalt etc. And yes they still have lower paying jobs. And yes you can still find a cheap beer and some good grub.

A friend of my brothers has lived in Aspen for ~25 years; he's still has the same mid-west industrial roots he's always had.

And today commuting is much easier:


Image courtesy Aspen Times
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  #6854  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2019, 4:14 PM
mishko27 mishko27 is offline
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eh, nevermind
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  #6855  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2019, 4:15 PM
mishko27 mishko27 is offline
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That is an epic portfolio. I would be interested to see if they do something very modernist looking
I feel as though their talents may be wasted on a 14 story hotel. I wish we got a super tall from a studio like this.
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  #6856  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2019, 5:18 PM
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Took a neat perspective of Block 162 this weekend, I thought you all might like it:

https://denverinfill.com/blog/2019/0...-update-8.html



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  #6857  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2019, 5:33 PM
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Took a neat perspective of Block 162 this weekend, I thought you all might like it:
Me likey. Thanks for the picture.

Also, while walking through downtown this weekend I went by 15th & Stout Hotel and noticed the screening is up on the parking podium- chalk it up as a major visual improvement and the project is now solid filler material.
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  #6858  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2019, 6:01 PM
laniroj laniroj is offline
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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Sounds like not only is your glass half full it's running on empty. Sorry about you ongoing Boomer befuddlement. You're obviously insistent on stewing in your own strange brew.

This economy we live in is amazing; the continuous tech innovation has been fueled totally by free-market capitalism (using those terms in a general and not a pure sense).

Other than to say that socialism has proven by those countries where it exists to not be an answer to anything, I'm not interested in re-debating all of today's problems and political talking points. I look to the right; I look to the left; you're all nuts.
There is much agreement between us in your statement and we're largely of the same thinking, however your thoughts fail to address housing, my main point, and while we do have an economy, it's most definitely one of the haves vs the have-nots - so hopefully everyone "got theirs". Luckily for me, I am relatively unaffected by housing costs because 1) I bought a home before the insanity and 2) I am in a higher income category as I assume most other homeowners are. My thoughts pertain to the roughly 30-40% of Americans who rent and do not enjoy 30 years of predictable housing costs.

In large cities, everywhere, housing has become the #1 issue preventing working folks from living a better life and it doesn't have to be that way. Once cheap center cities are now pie in the sky to the masses (but not the exceptions) so folks live further and further away from their jobs (necessitating car ownership and contributing to environmental issues). Housing is a root cause of many other social issues. Could they live in Boise or Kansas City or Salt Lake City - yes, but why should they have to when we can make it work for everyone? Unaffordable housing affects everything from healthcare and life expectancy to the resilience of a family unit, successful educational outcomes for kids, household formation (and therefore economic growth) and labor market viability. Housing is quite literally the glue that keeps the American economy together and represents our best social safety net (or not).

The power class is choosing to prevent more people from enjoying more fruitful lives by denying housing to millions - it just doesn't have to be that way. We can choose to build more homes (of all types, everywhere) and provide more people a better life or we can choose to not build those extra homes and continue denying tens of million of Americans a better life.

I had the pleasure of meeting some health and human services workers several weeks back (those people work incredibly hard under terribly negative mental conditions and are generally saints). More and more, our collective social resources (both private and public) at the very highest of levels are abandoning one-off symptom treatment programs and focusing instead on housing. They are doing this because they finally realize you can't solve the problem if you're not addressing it's source and because they have dabbled with housing investments that have yielded terrific long term results.

If you look right, left, and center, the logical conclusion is that we need more homes, more affordable, to more people...which is why 17th/Sheridan was such a lost opportunity. Good news is there is a 5 story building designed for the Lakewood side across the street - but wait....that'll never get building permits now with Lakewood's growth initiative...
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  #6859  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2019, 6:04 PM
laniroj laniroj is offline
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Originally Posted by mishko27 View Post
I feel as though their talents may be wasted on a 14 story hotel. I wish we got a super tall from a studio like this.
Completely agreed. The good news is the more outside money that floods into Denver, the better chance we have at getting these types of archys.
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  #6860  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2019, 6:04 PM
SirLucasTheGreat SirLucasTheGreat is offline
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Does anyone know the fate of the Cottrell building? They had fencing up and they were taking down facade elements. Multiple staff members at 24 hour fitness have told me that they are opening a downtown location but I doubt that they were able to score a location as perfect as that.
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