Ottawa on the Cusp of Greatness?

[1overcosc]

Ottawa was already a sizeable community at the time it was selected as capital. It wasn't some little tiny village at the time, contrary to popular myth.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Ottawa was already a sizeable community at the time it was selected as capital. It wasn't some little tiny village at the time, contrary to popular myth.

It wasn't a village, but it was still fairly small. The lack of risk of riots due to a low population was apparently a factor.

[acottawa]

I agree that comparing Ottawa to former capitals of large empires is not going to go very far, but Ottawa tends to be missing a number of things that cities Ottawa's size (or much smaller) normally have, including:

A vibrant public square (bars, restaurants, interesting buildings, maybe a water feature). York St. would be good for this, but the city turned it into a parking lot.

Something to do in downtown parks. Ottawa's parks support the following activities: sitting, walking, maybe tossing a frisbee. No beach volleyball court, no rides, no refreshment stands. Even playgrounds, splash pads, tennis courts, etc. are rare.

A bandshell (seriously, why are they always putting up ugly temporary stages in the same place).

A place to get a beer along the waterfront (Mill St. was a huge improvement in this area but it is one place).

Streets that open and close depending on the time of day (streets like Elgin or Clarence should close at 6 in the summer).

Museums, pathways, parkways, monuments to victims and flowerbeds are nice, but they have sucked the life out of large chunks of the city.

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I agree that comparing Ottawa to former capitals of large empires is not going to go very far, but Ottawa tends to be missing a number of things that cities Ottawa's size (or much smaller) normally have, including:

A vibrant public square (bars, restaurants, interesting buildings, maybe a water feature). York St. would be good for this, but the city turned it into a parking lot.

Something to do in downtown parks. Ottawa's parks support the following activities: sitting, walking, maybe tossing a frisbee. No beach volleyball court, no rides, no refreshment stands. Even playgrounds, splash pads, tennis courts, etc. are rare.

A bandshell (seriously, why are they always putting up ugly temporary stages in the same place).

A place to get a beer along the waterfront (Mill St. was a huge improvement in this area but it is one place).

Streets that open and close depending on the time of day (streets like Elgin or Clarence should close at 6 in the summer).

Museums, pathways, parkways, monuments to victims and flowerbeds are nice, but they have sucked the life out of large chunks of the city.

We have multiple vibrant neighbourhoods rather than a central square. In a city of a million people I don't see how only one square would satisfy the demand. I'm with you on the parks thing the whole put some grass and trees everywhere is getting old.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I agree that comparing Ottawa to former capitals of large empires is not going to go very far, but Ottawa tends to be missing a number of things that cities Ottawa's size (or much smaller) normally have, including:

A vibrant public square (bars, restaurants, interesting buildings, maybe a water feature). York St. would be good for this, but the city turned it into a parking lot.

Something to do in downtown parks. Ottawa's parks support the following activities: sitting, walking, maybe tossing a frisbee. No beach volleyball court, no rides, no refreshment stands. Even playgrounds, splash pads, tennis courts, etc. are rare.

A bandshell (seriously, why are they always putting up ugly temporary stages in the same place).

A place to get a beer along the waterfront (Mill St. was a huge improvement in this area but it is one place).

Streets that open and close depending on the time of day (streets like Elgin or Clarence should close at 6 in the summer).

Museums, pathways, parkways, monuments to victims and flowerbeds are nice, but they have sucked the life out of large chunks of the city.

Hopefully, Lansdowne Park will become the vibrant square you are hoping for.

The Domtar site is also the opportunity to open up the waterfront for more public enjoyment.

I am not so sure that pathways, parkways, monuments, museums and flowerbeds suck the life out of the city. It seems to me that the pathways are heavily used in the warmer months. Not every part of the city is going to have a vibrant urban feel. Parts will naturally be more recreational and laid back. I don't think that is a bad thing. I think we are lucky that most of our waterfronts have not been ruined by industry and railways.

[Mikeed]

Originally Posted by Beedok

So, say selecting a small unimportant town because partway between the two main centres of the country that was roughly on the border of the two main provinces and a substantial distance from the border?

I think you missed the point. That was more in regards to the commonly spoken complaint from "the West wants in" politicians that Ottawa only focused on the "Laurentian elites" of Ontario/Quebec- imagine a Trudeau-type Western alienation politician taking power in the post war boom. That is the folly I was speaking off. Juscelino Kubitschek was President of Brazil and favoured "master planning", there's also a giant monument to him in Brasilia.

"This is what you get when people start thinking about space rather than place. Single rather than multiple meaning. It's what you get when you design for political aspirations and not real human needs." Robert Hughes

Something to think about.

The same could be said about Kazakhstan's capital which I know some individuals have lamented Ottawa isn't taking a page from their playbook and making the same mistakes Brazilia made. Though I do believe the notion of architecture as monument is valuable and should find a place in Ottawa; rather than building for the lowest bidder.

Moving the capital to straddle the two cultural groups and former Empires who fought over and then learned to work together to build this country- I wouldn't say would be the same folly.

[Mikeed]

Contextually I will post an episode of Robert Hughes "The Shock of the New'- a 1980 classic of art and architecture criticism. Skilled, artful criticism in the true sense of the word. This is episode 4- Trouble in Utopia - Examining the aspirations and reality of architecture.

Though a little verbose at times.

Also check out episode 2 The Powers That Be - Examining the relationship between art and authority. (Nazism, Fascism ect) Here's a clip on the topic of Empire State Plaza.

[Nepean]

There is a lot of disagreement on this board which is quite healthy. I would hazard to guess, however, that most of us would agree with these two points: 1) Ottawa is becoming a better place to live; 2) It has the potential to be a lot better.

I have lived here off-and-on since the 1990s and without a doubt this city has improved. Think about what Ottawa was like only a few years ago. Light-rail was in limbo during the disastrous reign of Mayor Larry O'Brien. Lansdowne was a partially abandoned dump with only flickers of life (think 67s). You would be laughed out of the room if you said there was a chance that the Senators would move to Lebreton. The Domtar lands were written off as as just another painful screwup that had no solution. Plans to substantially improve the NAC building where not a topic of conversation. The possibility of a vast bicycle network was only a hope, while Hintonburg and Westboro were not that appealing.

Now look where we are. The numerous threads on this Board document all the progress that has been made over the past several years. Are we close to where we should be? Of course not. But I can say with confidence that Ottawa in 2014 is better than what it was in the 1990s or 2000s, and that Ottawa in 2018 (post-LRT) will be better than today.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Streets that open and close depending on the time of day (streets like Elgin or Clarence should close at 6 in the summer).

Why?

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by Mikeed

I think you missed the point. That was more in regards to the commonly spoken complaint from "the West wants in" politicians that Ottawa only focused on the "Laurentian elites" of Ontario/Quebec- imagine a Trudeau-type Western alienation politician taking power in the post war boom. That is the folly I was speaking off. Juscelino Kubitschek was President of Brazil and favoured "master planning", there's also a giant monument to him in Brasilia.

"This is what you get when people start thinking about space rather than place. Single rather than multiple meaning. It's what you get when you design for political aspirations and not real human needs." Robert Hughes

Something to think about.

The same could be said about Kazakhstan's capital which I know some individuals have lamented Ottawa isn't taking a page from their playbook and making the same mistakes Brazilia made. Though I do believe the notion of architecture as monument is valuable and should find a place in Ottawa; rather than building for the lowest bidder.

Moving the capital to straddle the two cultural groups and former Empires who fought over and then learned to work together to build this country- I wouldn't say would be the same folly.

When Ottawa was chosen and such there were plenty of efforts to build grand monuments and whatnot to turn it into a proper capital. They just botched the job. I suppose Washington is closer to the idea that build Brasilia, tossing a monument filled capital in the middle of a swamp and whatnot.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Why?

Because on a street like Elgin, vehicles need to have access during certain times of day for deliveries, etc. and during rush hour streets are needed to move people and transit. In the evenings the pedestrian demand is significantly higher and the sidewalks are over capacity. Closing the street during these times decreases crowding and makes the street more lively.

Retractable Bollards are quite common in Europe, for example, this street in Florence

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.77458...NnHw!2e0?hl=en

[J.OT13]

I'm glad Ottawa didn't get the master planned capital treatment. With a few exceptions due to bad or questionable federal planning such as LeBreton Flats, Rideau Centre area, Tunney's, Hull, Sussex... the city was able to grow organically into a something with more variety. Nice privately owned buildings, distinct neighborhoods, a skyline (kind of). Planned capitals often results in a boring, uniform and sterile environment. Brasilia and Canberra are good examples of this. Washington DC is arguably the best of the master planned capitals IMO.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I'm glad Ottawa didn't get the master planned capital treatment. With a few exceptions due to bad or questionable federal planning such as LeBreton Flats, Rideau Centre area, Tunney's, Hull, Sussex... the city was able to grow organically into a something with more variety. Nice privately owned buildings, distinct neighborhoods, a skyline (kind of). Planned capitals often results in a boring, uniform and sterile environment. Brasilia and Canberra are good examples of this. Washington DC is arguably the best of the master planned capitals IMO.

How about St. Petersburg?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Beedok

How about St. Petersburg?

Think that's more of the Ottawa model: existing city chosen as the capital, not a city built from scratch as a master planned capital.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Think that's more of the Ottawa model: existing city chosen as the capital, not a city built from scratch as a master planned capital.

There was an existing Swedish fort, but Peter brought in massive numbers of conscripted peasants to build a capital city there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_P...rg#Before_1900

[harls]

The word "cusp" reminds me of the dentist.

I live in a pretty good place. My dentist is pretty hot, too.

[teej1984]

I think if Ottawa is ever going to be on the cusp of greatness, Ottawans need to participate. Great cities are not made of great buildings and spaces, they're made by people occupying great buildings and spaces doing interesting, provocative, interesting, engaging and attractive things. One can stand and marvel at a spectacular building, but for something to be memorable about it, one needs to be drawn into it by what's happening around or inside it. I'm encouraged that these developments will attract people to engage with Ottawa, but outside of the highly regimented clocks that Ottawa seems to exist on, we need to find ways that attract and keep greatness in this city.

[kwoldtimer]

Ottawa - on the cusp of adequacy.

[UrbOttawa]

Originally Posted by teej1984

I'm encouraged that these developments will attract people to engage with Ottawa, but outside of the highly regimented clocks that Ottawa seems to exist on, we need to find ways that attract and keep greatness in this city.

Hopefully the Bayview innovation centre will successfully contribute to this.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I'm glad Ottawa didn't get the master planned capital treatment. With a few exceptions due to bad or questionable federal planning such as LeBreton Flats, Rideau Centre area, Tunney's, Hull, Sussex... the city was able to grow organically into a something with more variety. Nice privately owned buildings, distinct neighborhoods, a skyline (kind of). Planned capitals often results in a boring, uniform and sterile environment. Brasilia and Canberra are good examples of this. Washington DC is arguably the best of the master planned capitals IMO.

Largely because it was planned before the planning fads of the 20th century.