Salt Lake Transit News Thread

[SLCdude]

I live less than a block from a #2 bus stop now, so I've ridden it a couple of times to and from the university. During rush hour, there's hardly any standing room. I haven't heard any complaints yet, but I'm sure the charm of being in an overcrowded bus will wear off eventually.

As I've mentioned before, i would welcome a hub to university line. There are issues with running too many trains downtown, as electricon has mentioned, but I'm hoping UTA can find some kind of solution for this.

[RC14]

Maybe in the mean time they could run some of those 60ft buses on route 2. If they dont already, I dont usually ride it so I don't know.

[chad.farnes]

I saw this article on the Trib the other day. I thought it was really interesting, although the article wasn't there later in the day when I looked. Makes me wonder if it will actually happen or if the Trib jumped the gun...

Back in frontier days, the Union and Central Pacific railroads met in Utah after racing to see which could lay more track for the first transcontinental railroad. Now, the Utah Transit Authority is starting a different type of great train race.

Its board just set a goal calling for one of three railroad lines now under construction to be finished sometime next year, instead of 2013 or 2014 as called for by current schedules (which are already before the original 2015 deadline set for all three).

That goal is setting off an internal race for extra resources among the UTA teams building TRAX extensions to Salt Lake City International Airport and to Draper, and a Frontrunner commuter train extension to Provo.

“Is it the great train race?” asked UTA General Manager Michael Allegra. “It sounds like fun. It sounds like a little internal competition.”

He noted that UTA had budgeted for the airport and Draper lines to open in 2013, and the Frontrunner extension to open in 2014 — but all are on similar construction schedules and it may be possible to accelerate any of them for potential completion next year.

He said the recession has allowed UTA to receive construction bids well below projections, and construction has sped along, propelled by contractors hungry for work. Also, interest rates for bonds have been low and saved money.

“So we have the opportunity to open one of the lines a little earlier,” Allegra said.

But he said UTA isn’t sure which of the three lines should or could be opened first. So teams are scrambling to see if they could speed things along and win the contest for resources for earlier completion.

“We’re looking to be faster and get this service out to the community so they can enjoy the benefits of it,” Allegra said. But he warns that any hiccups in federal funding — which are possible amid congressional budget battles — could end the train race early.

The board at a meeting last week held some early debate about which line might bring the most benefits with an early completion.

For example, some noted that finishing the airport line early could help businesses along North Temple in Salt Lake City that have been suffering during construction. Others said finishing Frontrunner before Interstate 15 reconstruction in Utah County is complete could convince some drivers to switch to the train.

Also, Allegra said the Draper line is “a relatively short, easy job” and might be easier to certify for startup and with less disruption to connecting bus lines than the other two big projects.

Allegra said UTA will probably stagger the openings of the three new lines and not try to roll them out at the same time — as it did a few weeks ago with the West Valley City and Mid-Jordan TRAX extensions.

He said the process of receiving federal and other certifications to open — and reworking related bus routes — is complicated and, in the case of launching the West Valley City and Mid-Jordan lines together, took “superhuman effort.”

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politic...ction.html.csp

[Old&New]

I think Frontrunner South is the most pressing, with the airport line following at a close second.

[Makid]

I agree.

Let's get Frontrunner South up and running before the I-15 reconstruction is complete. That way we get more people used to taking the train so that they are more likely to continue to take the train after I-15 reconstruction is complete.

[Makid]

I would like to see Frontrunner South opened by September 2012, Airport March 2013 and Draper by September 2013.

I think that the current construction completed and what is left could easily fit into these timeframes. With costs coming in on average of 20% under budget, we could put some of the cost savings to speed up the last lines to get them all done before 2014 which would be a huge win for the valley as well as UTA for getting things done well in advance of the original estimates.

I think this would also go far in increasing the success of future ballot measures to increase transit expansion going forward for Trax, Street Car, BRT and Frontrunner initiatives.

[Old&New]

Perhaps the surplus funds can go toward the construction of rail down 400 South, between the intermodal hub and Main Street.

I really wish the 400 South viaduct had been designed to split into two viaducts just on the east half of the viaduct (with west bound traffic on one side of the split and east bound traffic on the other) providing enough room to send TRAX down 400 South from the intermodal hub, under the viaduct and through the gap directly to the center of 400 south, avoiding the need to cross any east-west traffic.

[Makid]

I don't think the funds can go to any rail on 4th South as an environmental impact statement hasn't been completed on that section.

I do feel that an extension along 4th south and connecting to the Hub is the next logical expansion of the Trax system. We will probably begin to hear about that section for expansion within the next year or 2 due to the increased amount of transit being used within the downtown area and increased traffic heading to the University of Utah.

I don't think that the Courthouse stop can handle the extra transfers once the Airport line and Frontrunner South open as people try to get to the U via Trax with the current Trax configuration.

[(Eco)nomy_404]

Originally Posted by ajiuO

SF has both BART and MUNI. They both run under ground on the main part of market street but are actualy above ground quite a lot.

I'm glad someone brought SF up... They should be an example for any city.

There is no reason this can't be managed... Even if they need to add 2 blocks of track to take the stress of a single intersection... Which I don't think they would need to do.

True enough. SF has both a regional metro (BART) and a local light rail/cable car system (MUNI). All lines go down town. True, some go under ground, but many stay on the surface. If you have ever been to down town SF you know what I`m talking about - there is almost more heavy vehicle traffic than automobile - bus, train, cable car, trolley, etc. There are so many buses that at any given moment you can look around you and count at least 15 within sight. You could think of SF`s Market St. like Salt Lake`s Main. Salt Lake could quadruple it`s heavy vehicle traffic and have nowhere near as much traffic as SF. Then there`s the fact that the SF streets are WAY smaller than Salt Lake`s wide avenues. SF`s mayors have adopted a public transit oriented development approach to down town SF. They put automobile traffic as their lowest priority to encourage more mass transit.

A car-free endorsement: If the responses from mayoral candidates are any indication, there's a good chance Market Street could be closed to cars in the very near future. The idea, of course, isn't a new one, but it has gotten renewed attention in recent months. A number of candidates at a Monday forum on architecture and planning agreed that closing Market to private cars would speed transit, make bicycling safer, and be an all-round good thing for the city.

Closing Market to car traffic could speed public transit along the busy boulevard, traffic experts say. More than 20 transit lines run down the street, with 125,000 boardings each day, said Paul Rose, spokesman for the Municipal Transportation Agency.
On average, each bus travels 4 to 8 mph, about the speed of a brisk walk.
Removing cars would make the streetcars and buses that rumble down Market speedier, said Jeffrey Tumlin, who studies transit with Nelson\Nygaard, a local consulting firm.
Most cars driving down Market are confused tourists or locals orbiting for parking, so closing Market wouldn't have huge impacts on car traffic, he said.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...#ixzz1WdzGjEqJ

Just as SF has many other major thoroughfares besides Market St in the down town area, Salt Lake has many others beside Main (3rd West, State St, West Temple, etc.) Shutting off traffic to an already pedestrian and public transit oriented corridor wouldn`t make many disruptions in down town SF just as I imagine it wouldn`t in SLC. And it improves train efficiency. SF has more than 20 transit lines running down Mraket St and Salt Lake couldn`t squeeze in 4 or 5? SLC`s Main is probably even wider than SF`s Market.

Personally, I don`t think it would piss off drivers too much. You don`t drive down town to jump on an expressway. You expect lots of lights and traffic. If you wanted to avoid lots of traffic and intersections you would take another route going around down town or just take mass transit.

If you want a city more comparable to SLC, here`s a map of Denver`s system:



You can see that they have centralized their system with a "grand central station" but the lines soon dissipate after leaving the central station to improve efficiency. Either way you cut it (Denver or SF) you would have a central corridor. I like the Denver and San Francisco models a lot better. UTA had the potencial to do the same in SLC but didn`t. It`s really too bad that it didn`t. Ideal, I think, would be a line going from the U to the airport following North Temple, then the other 3 lines (daybreak, sandy, and west valley) going all the way to the "Hub." That way all 4 lines would go through the Main St corridor from Galavan to the Arena with only the U-Airport line diverging at the Gateway to head down North Temple.

Other examples of centralized systems:

Portland:



Someone mentioned Calgary:



From what I can tell, SLC stands alone with only two lines going to the central station.

[(Eco)nomy_404]

Thinking positively, maybe the current alignment will help spur more development on the south end of down town I mean, we do have a central corridor like the previously mentioned cities, it just doesn`t go through the economic/cultural center of town. But maybe that`s a good thing - it can help encourage development farther south. It`s just too bad that a bit of investment was taken out of the "Hub".

[Sight-Seer]

I was in San Fransisco two or three years ago and I couldn't turn left on Market Street at all because of the buses in the middle. It was very confusing. I guess you turn right, go around the block, and cross it that way.

[John Martin]

Proof that TRAX can and does run 4-car trains with the new vehicles.

I didn't think it would fit at the station, but it did.


TRAX by John Martin K, on Flickr

[s.p.hansen]

That's awesome.


So I heard the U of U fight song in the train while going down the S curve today! And there were a TON of people wearing U of U gear coming up the Red Line and just as many coming down via FrontRunner.

[CountyLemonade]

You know, I really do lament the fact that we have only two lines going to our "central station." In European cities the vast majority of lines connect with the main stations (like Germany with its Hauptbanhofs, Amsterdam with its Centraal station, et al). However, logistically, I don't see how we can do it. I know this would be prohibitively expensive, but it would be neat to, as in larger German cities, move light rail tracks underground. Let's say from Courthouse to Central Station. It wouldn't be a subway per se, but rather an underground light rail.

[StevenF]

Originally Posted by CountyLemonade

You know, I really do lament the fact that we have only two lines going to our "central station." In European cities the vast majority of lines connect with the main stations (like Germany with its Hauptbanhofs, Amsterdam with its Centraal station, et al). However, logistically, I don't see how we can do it. I know this would be prohibitively expensive, but it would be neat to, as in larger German cities, move light rail tracks underground. Let's say from Courthouse to Central Station. It wouldn't be a subway per se, but rather an underground light rail.

There is one issue with putting light rail under main street and that's because the LDS church has underground parking under some sections of it.

[RC14]

I think Seattle has underground light rail. I know some cities do.

[John Martin]

Originally Posted by StevenF

There is one issue with putting light rail under main street and that's because the LDS church has underground parking under some sections of it.

Let's not take money for granted either.

[Orlando]

You guys should definitely check this out! The link has some demo reels of the proposed high-speed rail lines, and other transportation development related 3d stuff. Super cool!!!

http://www.nc3d.com/demo

go to demo reels> 2008 Transportation Demo Reel.

[s.p.hansen]

John's right about the money.

The reason Utah doesn't have underground rail is because we are one of the few states that has the restraint of a conservative money saving state coupled with aims at transit expansion.

I like it that way. I would rather us think large in system scale rather than engineering.

According to thetransitpolitic.com UTA spent $50.5 million and $72.5 million per mile on the Mid-Jordan and West Valley lines.

"[UTA is] on the low end compared to similar projects currently under construction in Portland ($204 million/mile), Houston ($145 million/mile), and the Twin Cities ($87 million/mile)."
http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2...re-on-the-way/


It cost billions for Seattle to build light rail and it costs millions to Salt Lake City to build light rail. That is partially why the Wasatch Metro, as spread out and small as it is, can do so much damage in getting things done with transit.

[s.p.hansen]

North Temple Viaduct at Night