PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

No one has even mentioned the parking for the US Steel employees. I assume there will be an 8 story parking garage next to the 5 story "headquarters".

Parking in Block D is supposed to go under the buildings. We'll see I guess, although that might be a parking entrance off Street 2 in this overhead:

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Maybe we can hope that the Pens/City will push them to at least build up to 160'... though I definitely won't count on that happening.

If US Steel really wants their own building but this is all the building they want, and the numbers are good enough for the Penguins, then I think the odds the City will stand up to a combination of US Steel and the Penguins are slim and none, and none just dumped slim's body in the Ohio River.

Of course fundamentally, this all goes back to handing the Penguins these development rights, rather than bidding them out. That process is virtually guaranteed not to use those development rights to their full potential. We've seen it on the North Shore and we're seeing it here, and it is depressingly predictable.

[Jonboy1983]

Please somebody tell me that this is just a proposal and nobody has final approval to build this squat monstrosity! I'd reject this thing in a heart beat. It does NOT belong that close to Downtown!!! You need to go taller. Sorry, US Steel, but something that short for that parcel of land is not going to fly...

What a waste...

So they stated that they wanted upwards of 800k to 1 million square feet, only to announce this shoe-box of a building that won't even contain a quarter of the square footage! US Steel, I'd be happier if you would've left NYC to become the anchor tenant at Two WTC... I'd rather you have done that!

I don't care about the design. This whole thing all around is an utter disgrace and a bitter disappointment. Pittsburgh deserves better!

Can someone at Comcast please coach US Steel on how to build a world-class Downtown headquarters, PLEASE?!! They've lost touch...

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

Please somebody tell me that this is just a proposal and nobody has final approval to build this squat monstrosity! I'd reject this thing in a heart beat. It does NOT belong that close to Downtown!!! You need to go taller. Sorry, US Steel, but something that short for that parcel of land is not going to fly...

What a waste...

So they stated that they wanted upwards of 800k to 1 million square feet, only to announce this shoe-box of a building that won't even contain a quarter of the square footage! US Steel, I'd be happier if you would've left NYC to become the anchor tenant at Two WTC... I'd rather you have done that!

I don't care about the design. This whole thing all around is an utter disgrace and a bitter disappointment. Pittsburgh deserves better!

Can someone at Comcast please coach US Steel on how to build a world-class Downtown headquarters, PLEASE?!! They've lost touch...

There's been no final approval... but like BrianTH and I just said, there is very little chance the City would go against the Penguins and US Steel... particularly since this project was on very shaky ground from day one.

Something that short is going to fly based on the Penguins plan for the site... so there's potentially more where that came from on some of the parcels of the site.

It sounds like you are giving way more credit to US Steel than they deserve in terms of corporate status and interest in good urban design. US Steel is no Comcast. We should all remember that US Steel has been losing money for over 5 years... lots of money. Comcast posted profits of almost $7B. US Steel has ZERO ability right now to build a "world-class Downtown headquarters", nor to become the anchor tenant for one of the tallest buildings in NYC.

[Jonboy1983]

Ok, I guess those remarks about US Steel losing money were valid, but even if they were losing cash over the last 7 years why would they say a couple of years ago that they were looking for upwards of a million square feet of office space? They have what, about 500k square feet in US Steel, and they're going to move out of there, consolidate a call center into a fraction of the space? Still, it doesn't make sense.

I guess the ones to blame for this monstrosity are those in bureaucracy and the Penguins organization. They couldn't have been more short sighted with this plan if they were blind...

Why couldn't they just be the anchor tenant of a major commercial development rather than the sole tenant of an unimpressive piece of suburban garbage?

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

but even if they were losing cash over the last 7 years why would they say a couple of years ago that they were looking for upwards of a million square feet of office space?

Why couldn't they just be the anchor tenant of a major commercial development rather than the sole tenant of an unimpressive piece of suburban garbage?

Different US Steel leadership existed a couple years ago.

Well, for one thing, it seems that US Steel wants their own building. And who else is going to occupy this "major commercial development" that has US Steel as its anchor tenant? Being involved with urban real estate development, I haven't heard about any major interest in the site.

[BrianTH]

My read is US Steel worked the system perfectly. They came up with superficially plausible reasons they couldn't renew their lease. They extorted a bunch of public subsidies to stay in Pennsylvania. Now they are getting a cheapo new HQ in a prime central location.

We can and should blame the politicians who fall for this sort of thing every time, but we also have to blame the electorate who enables those politicians. And the fact is, most people probably don't see a problem with the scale or quality of this project (heck, a substantial number of the comments I am seeing are blatantly racist people wondering why a nice respectable company like US Steel would want to be on the Hill at all).

I hate to sound defeatist, but we are probably still at least a generation away from a political climate where the prevailing attitude is no longer that Pittsburgh is lucky to get anything at all out of big name entities, such that we can never tell them no. Which is why part of me is coming to the view that maybe slowing things down in some of these areas is not a bad idea. I'm fine with the sorts of things going on around East Liberty, the South Side Works, Lawrenceville, etc.--maybe the areas immediately around Downtown, however, could stand to wait a while longer.

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

My read is US Steel worked the system perfectly. They came up with superficially plausible reasons they couldn't renew their lease. They extorted a bunch of public subsidies to stay in Pennsylvania. Now they are getting a cheapo new HQ in a prime central location.

We can and should blame the politicians who fall for this sort of thing every time, but we also have to blame the electorate who enables those politicians. And the fact is, most people probably don't see a problem with the scale or quality of this project (heck, a substantial number of the comments I am seeing are blatantly racist people wondering why a nice respectable company like US Steel would want to be on the Hill at all).

I hate to sound defeatist, but we are probably still at least a generation away from a political climate where the prevailing attitude is no longer that Pittsburgh is lucky to get anything at all out of big name entities, such that we can never tell them no. Which is why part of me is coming to the view that maybe slowing things down in some of these areas is not a bad idea. I'm fine with the sorts of things going on around East Liberty, the South Side Works, Lawrenceville, etc.--maybe the areas immediately around Downtown, however, could stand to wait a while longer.

I guess what you're saying is things are eventually going to turn a corner and we should be patient. Given that, I wonder who is next to speculate on a new high-rise development in the Steel City. Will I hit 50 by the time that happens?

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Different US Steel leadership existed a couple years ago.

Well, for one thing, it seems that US Steel wants their own building. And who else is going to occupy this "major commercial development" that has US Steel as its anchor tenant? Being involved with urban real estate development, I haven't heard about any major interest in the site.

Well, in that sense, they deserve this building. It's everything US Steel has become, pretty much...

[Private Dick]

What are people really upset about?

That US Steel cannot do much better than a 5-story suburban-looking building for their corporate HQ or that they don't have any interest in doing anything better than that?

Look at it like this... if this was just the first office building with ground floor retail proposed for the overall site, with no specific tenant... would the reaction be as negative? I doubt it.

Let's hope for for those tall buildings suggested by the site plans can get built... because US Steel was quite obviously not going to be one of the companies to occupy them anyway.

[Urbana]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

US Steel was quite obviously not going to be one of the companies to occupy them anyway.

At 250,000 sq ft they could have been a solid anchor tennant for one of those towers. What other company would be looking for that amount of space downtown? As far as I can tell, US Steel was the last hope for the site's office component. I hate to be an armchair developer, but it seems a great waste that the deal could not be used to leverage more development on spec. But what do you expect from a hockey team? A real developer might have had better motivation.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

What are people really upset about?

That the development rights, formerly owned by the public, were given to the Penguins on a no-bid basis as part of a bribe to stay in Pittsburgh.

That US Steel was given public subsidies as a bribe to stay in Pennsylvania.

That as a result of this sequence of events, the Penguins and US Steel are both effectively being paid by the public to underutilize this land.

We'll never know for sure what might have happened if these development rights had been put out to competitive bid. But in theory it is very unlikely the process we put in place will produce the best possible outcome, and in practice this doesn't look good.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

My read is US Steel worked the system perfectly. They came up with superficially plausible reasons they couldn't renew their lease. They extorted a bunch of public subsidies to stay in Pennsylvania. Now they are getting a cheapo new HQ in a prime central location.

We can and should blame the politicians who fall for this sort of thing every time, but we also have to blame the electorate who enables those politicians. And the fact is, most people probably don't see a problem with the scale or quality of this project (heck, a substantial number of the comments I am seeing are blatantly racist people wondering why a nice respectable company like US Steel would want to be on the Hill at all).

I hate to sound defeatist, but we are probably still at least a generation away from a political climate where the prevailing attitude is no longer that Pittsburgh is lucky to get anything at all out of big name entities, such that we can never tell them no. Which is why part of me is coming to the view that maybe slowing things down in some of these areas is not a bad idea. I'm fine with the sorts of things going on around East Liberty, the South Side Works, Lawrenceville, etc.--maybe the areas immediately around Downtown, however, could stand to wait a while longer.

Oh yeah, they totally worked the system. A state grant worth over $30M, tax credits, abatements, etc... and having the Penguins and their contractor build them a building... which they will likely leave when their 18 year lease expires. Now that's commitment to Pittsburgh!! 18 year lease! Woohoo!

Though the politicians didn't fall for anything. They know the game... and it looks good for them to go out and talk about being a "Pittsburgh boy" and show love for US Steel and reap some of the credit for keeping one of the city's foundations from leaving town. It's all for show. That press conference was nauseating.

[TBone7281]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

That press conference was nauseating.

My wife said I was being crude when I called it a circle jerk. But I couldn't think of a more accurate description.

At least they aren't taking up development space on one of the unrestricted height blocks.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

That the development rights, formerly owned by the public, were given to the Penguins on a no-bid basis as part of a bribe to stay in Pittsburgh.

That US Steel was given public subsidies as a bribe to stay in Pennsylvania.

That as a result of this sequence of events, the Penguins and US Steel are both effectively being paid by the public to underutilize this land.

We'll never know for sure what might have happened if these development rights had been put out to competitive bid. But in theory it is very unlikely the process we put in place will produce the best possible outcome, and in practice this doesn't look good.

Exactly, I completely agree. It goes much deeper than just a bad building. That the Pens have had sole development rights and have sat on the land while producing some pretty terrible plans is bad enough... but now that the city's iconic brand and top Fortune 500 firm just took a 5-story dump on that land makes it all that much worse.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by TBone7281

My wife said I was being crude when I called it a circle jerk. But I couldn't think of a more accurate description.

At least they aren't taking up development space on one of the unrestricted height blocks.

Total circle jerk


If they had done that, I think there would actually be some sort of violent uprising among us.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Though the politicians didn't fall for anything. They know the game... and it looks good for them to go out and talk about being a "Pittsburgh boy" and show love for US Steel and reap some of the credit for keeping one of the city's foundations from leaving town. It's all for show. That press conference was nauseating.

Fair enough. I think it is both carrot and stick--no politician wants to be the one to "lose" the Penguins, US Steel, etc. (that's the stick), but they also don't mind taking the credit for keeping them (that's the carrot).

[Wave]

My Alternative name for the new building: Mellon Client Services Building, Phase II

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Wave

My Alternative name for the new building: Mellon Client Services Building, Phase II

If only! That's a 14-story, 200', 910,000 sqft building.

[BrianTH]

Sort of a perfect Pittsburgh business story--apparently this deal was put together by a bunch of local business leaders and the Penguins, who then approached the US Steel CEO at a BBQ Mario Lemieux was hosting:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburg....html?page=all