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  #4761  
Old Posted May 5, 2018, 4:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Prezrezc View Post
Larry might very well have no choice here coz the well of potential big-time corporate anchor tenants is running dangerously dry.
It will never run dry. There is a history to the city, it didn't just start building office towers today, and everything doesn't have to be built today. Think of the volume of office space in the City, and how much it has to turn over. Not everyone has the same timeline. There will be large leases signed every year.

However, because DB hasn't signed, which I hoped they would, doesn't mean it won't get a tenant.




https://nypost.com/2018/05/04/deutsc...lumbus-circle/

Quote:
The asking rent at the Time Warner Center was $135 per square foot.

“Related transformed Columbus Circle into a thriving mixed-use neighborhood and world-class destination. We are very pleased to work with our long-term partner as they re-imagine their north American headquarters,” said Jeff T. Blau, chief executive of Related Cos.

The first term of Deutsche’s lease at 60 Wall St. ends in June 2022. The bank had several renewal options and the building had new owners that laid out the red carpet for a lease renewal.

But the bank “wanted a fresh start,” one source said.

It loves the thriving Upper West Side neighborhood around the Time Warner Center — with its European feel as well as the stunning Central Park, river and city views, sources said.

The One Columbus economics will also work, sources said. Deutsche Bank will relocate roughly 500,000 square feet of occupancy to a new building in Jacksonville, Fla., where it already has a large presence.

Quote:
“This is a decision they made because of their business and financial health,” said a disappointed Jessica Lappin, president of the Alliance for Downtown, who said she believed the bank’s employees wanted to remain in the area. “They are retrenching and reorganizing, and (that’s) why I can see being the anchor tenant at 2 World Trade was a bridge too far for them.”

The 2 World Trade Center tower would have been developed by Larry Silverstein, but it has taken several years to flesh out details, build and turn over for a move in.

“While today’s news is disappointing, we are very happy with Downtown’s growing momentum and optimistic about the World Trade Center’s continued success,” said a Silverstein spokesman. The area will welcome 4,000 GroupM and 2,000 Spotify employees to 3 WTC and 4 WTC, respectively, over the rest of the year.



https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...eet-to-midtown

Quote:
The firm, which has been leasing offices at 60 Wall Street, will begin the move in the third quarter of 2021.

One mock-up of the bank’s new trading floor shows an expansive view of Central Park.




https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/...Q/v0/-1x-1.jpg



Quote:
The departure from Wall Street is a milestone for the historic financial district in lower Manhattan, following a long exodus of major firms to other parts of the city. Banks remaining closest now include Goldman Sachs Group Inc., headquartered near the site of the original World Trade Center at 200 West Street, while Citigroup Inc. is a stone’s throw away in Tribeca. More of the industry is further uptown.

“The relocation is an investment in our clients, in our employees and in our future long-term presence in the U.S.,” Patrick wrote in the memo. “The new location will result in closer proximity to key clients, consolidate New York activities and provide employees with access to modern, state-of-the-art facilities, technology and amenities while retaining access to critical transportation links.”
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Last edited by NYguy; May 5, 2018 at 5:10 AM.
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  #4762  
Old Posted May 5, 2018, 11:14 AM
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I wouldn’t be surprised to see this redesigned as a mixed use tower with 1m sf of office, 500k sf of condo, and 300k sf of hotel.

While I find downtown to be much nicer than Midtown, firms just don’t want to be there. The subway ride from GCT and Penn can add another 20 minutes onto already long commutes.

Consequently, the current designs, which require a very big pre-lease in order to commence construction, are not viable. Those businesses that do locate downtown seem to be smaller, niche businesses.

A redesigned, mixed-use tower could be way taller than the current proposal.

Unless a tenant is found this year, I think that a new, mixed-use design will emerge in 2019. I'd just like to see 2 WTC under construction by 9-11-21.
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Last edited by JMKeynes; May 5, 2018 at 6:22 PM.
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  #4763  
Old Posted May 5, 2018, 11:59 AM
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^^^

Yes yes yes. I think that will be the trajectory too.
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  #4764  
Old Posted May 5, 2018, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
^^^

Yes yes yes. I think that will be the trajectory too.
This could yield a building that’s 1,775’ feet to the roof.
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  #4765  
Old Posted May 6, 2018, 1:01 PM
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Isn't DB the only tenant at 60 Wall? That was just purchased for $1.2B, wonder what happens there having to compete with the WTC for downtown tenants.
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  #4766  
Old Posted May 6, 2018, 6:04 PM
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A redesign might spark interest.
After 16½ years, I wonder why Larry doesn’t just sell.
It’s been a bad deal from the start.
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  #4767  
Old Posted May 6, 2018, 7:29 PM
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If it weren't for the HY, this would have been built long ago. Now with the Midtown East (and possibly Penn) rezoning, building a 2.5m sf tower will be even harder. This needs to be downsized to a 1m sf office component with another 750k sf of condo and hotel.
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  #4768  
Old Posted May 6, 2018, 8:05 PM
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Originally Posted by TechTalkGuy View Post
A redesign might spark interest.
After 16½ years, I wonder why Larry doesn’t just sell.
It’s been a bad deal from the start.
No one else is likely to do a better job landing a tenant, and finding a buyer would probably be difficult. Increasingly so with Hudson Yards and Midtown rezoning. I agree with those who say a mixed use tower makes sense.
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  #4769  
Old Posted May 6, 2018, 9:17 PM
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No one else is likely to do a better job landing a tenant, and finding a buyer would probably be difficult. Increasingly so with Hudson Yards and Midtown rezoning. I agree with those who say a mixed use tower makes sense.
The clock is ticking...
Massive projects including taller towers are under construction.
Many are finished.

Say what you will, but face the facts; "Ground Zero" won’t sell without a stellar redesign.

Something new, exciting, bold, daring & attractive!

Where’s the 53W53 designer?
Build a tower people want!!
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  #4770  
Old Posted May 7, 2018, 2:35 AM
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I think bank trading floors shouldn't have distracting views of Central Park ... and maybe should be in windowless warehouses instead ... so that the bankers can focus on the tasks rather than be pampered.
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  #4771  
Old Posted May 7, 2018, 4:23 PM
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Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
I wouldn’t be surprised to see this redesigned as a mixed use tower with 1m sf of office, 500k sf of condo, and 300k sf of hotel.

Not gonna happen. For one thing, residential is currently not permitted on site. For another, there are already multiple residential towers in the works. There is no reason they will change the programming just to get something on site. That hardly happens anywhere, no reason to think it should happen here. Do people really think there will never be demand for new office space in lower Manhattan again? With some of these comments, I wonder.


Quote:
“This is a decision they made because of their business and financial health,” said a disappointed Jessica Lappin, president of the Alliance for Downtown, who said she believed the bank’s employees wanted to remain in the area. “They are retrenching and reorganizing, and (that’s) why I can see being the anchor tenant at 2 World Trade was a bridge too far for them.”

There are many factors that go into a tenant signing a long term lease, and there are lease signings every year in the city. It's a large city, with a large amount of office space, and turnover is a part of the process. What you try to do is get the tenants that are nearing lease expirations, or looking for new or consolidated space. There will always be those tenants. If you don't get one, you keep looking.

As for a redesign itself, no reason for that either. The current design has pretty much all of the amenity space the current crop of towers must have. As far as the view of Central Park, maybe some people would prefer looking out at that. I don't think it was a major factor though.




For comparison, some of the TWC renders...


https://commercialobserver.com/2018/...street/#slide0
























By comparison, the current 2 WTC design...



https://www.6sqft.com/bjarke-ingels-...-trade-center/

















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  #4772  
Old Posted May 8, 2018, 9:46 PM
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I'm sure that New Yorkers would be more familiar with the downtown market than I would, but speaking as an observer and an enthusiast, I think that a mixed-use tower would be a great idea. I think that having residential and hotel programming gives a building more life and makes it more enjoyable for more people. I also think that the external form of 200 Greenwich's current design would be particularly conducive to mixed-use, with the garden setbacks easily defining the different kinds of internal spaces from outside. If there were to be such a change, it would certainly require an internal redesign at a minimum.

Personally, there are a lot of aesthetic things that I dislike about how each of the new WTC towers have turned out, including the current design of this one. I think it's okay, though, that redevelopment has taken so long. I just hope that however this last piece of the puzzle turns out, it harmonizes well with the best parts of its neighbors. 200 Greenwich has all the potential to be the crown jewel of Lower Manhattan, if everyone involved pays attention to the importance of the location.
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  #4773  
Old Posted May 8, 2018, 10:17 PM
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The original twin towers were boring, but very impressive.
One look at the "Twin Towers" & you instantly knew that they were office buildings.
No "mixed use" crap!

Norman Foster had a beautiful design.
One look & you knew that it was an office building.


Instead, we get this:
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  #4774  
Old Posted May 8, 2018, 11:26 PM
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All the more reason to build a temporary rooftop bar and restaurant on top of the site.
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  #4775  
Old Posted May 8, 2018, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TechTalkGuy View Post
The original twin towers were boring, but very impressive.
One look at the "Twin Towers" & you instantly knew that they were office buildings.
No "mixed use" crap!

Norman Foster had a beautiful design.
One look & you knew that it was an office building.


Instead, we get this:
Neither of these will be built. Disney is looking to build its own tower of over 1m sf, and they have no interest in this site. Nothing will rise here for a very long time because a tower this huge requires a lease of at least 1m sf, and there aren't many fish in that sea. Further, those "fish" that did seek such leases in the past few years all stayed in (or went to) Midtown/HY.
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  #4776  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 1:28 AM
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Very true.
The Time Warner Center at Columbus Circle is more attractive than 2 WTC.
The reason that’s the case has nothing to do with "new" office buildings, but location.
Keep reminding yourself that there is "demand" at "Ground Zero" after 9/11/2001.

What can be built is a mile high monument with an observatory & gift shop.
Add a restaurant up there & make easy money from the tourists.
Then construction can begin immediately.

You’re welcome!
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  #4777  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
Neither of these will be built. Disney is looking to build its own tower of over 1m sf, and they have no interest in this site. Nothing will rise here for a very long time because a tower this huge requires a lease of at least 1m sf, and there aren't many fish in that sea. Further, those "fish" that did seek such leases in the past few years all stayed in (or went to) Midtown/HY.
I think it is 500k sf they need to get the tower going.

I'm glad that the temporary plaza is going in, it will be nice for both 3WTC and 2WTC's construction fences to be gone in the next few months.
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  #4778  
Old Posted May 9, 2018, 8:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan de California View Post
I'm sure that New Yorkers would be more familiar with the downtown market than I would, but speaking as an observer and an enthusiast, I think that a mixed-use tower would be a great idea. I think that having residential and hotel programming gives a building more life and makes it more enjoyable for more people.
That may make sense in some cases, except in this case, there are a number of new residential towers already going up and planned bordering the site. But the most important factor in why it is NOT a good idea is because there aren't any sites at all in the financial district where you can build a tower of this size. It sits on top of a transit hub, it makes sense to concentrate the office space on these sites.

There was a time when it was thought there would be no commercial activity built on the site at all, yet here we are with two towers already built and open, and a third tower opening soon. That doesn't take into account the numerous towers that have sprung up around the site, commercial and residential alike. Other than simply having the complex complete, there is no reason all of the office space had to be built at once. This isn't the Hudson Yards where they needed a critical amount of space to be built at once in order to make the site attractive. It's an already established area, one that will remain so.

As I keep repeating, the original complex took years to fill, and Downtown doesn't get this much office space dumped on it at once. But the office space has to be rebuilt, and its being rebuilt by a private developer, who also happens to lease all of the space from the Port Authority. Banks aren't going to finance this tower without a tenant, otherwise it would have been built already.
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  #4779  
Old Posted May 11, 2018, 2:39 PM
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I think the best compliment to One WTC would be to build Foster's design but ~1,365' to the parapet and maybe ~1,450 to the tip.

In any case it seems like BIG's design is out of the picture which is certainly for the best, because well... I'm not even going to sugar coat it, it sucked.
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  #4780  
Old Posted May 11, 2018, 3:51 PM
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^ Fosters was a masterpiece if built according to their schematics.




http://newyorkyimby.com/wp-content/u..._2wtc_02-1.gif
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