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  #201  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2019, 6:41 AM
PurpleWhiteOut PurpleWhiteOut is offline
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Looks like PES may actually finally close. This would be huge news for the city's air quality.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-r...-idUSKCN1TR09E
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  #202  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2019, 10:20 AM
eixample eixample is offline
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Originally Posted by japmes View Post
I agree with this. Given the land area, location and industrial history, returning the area to nature or parkland is probably the best option if the facility closes permanently. It could be a nice nature reserve. Or maybe a golf course?
A golf course is one of the worst possible redevelopment alternatives. Especially considering the city is already planning to get rid of the golf course at FDR park a short distance from here.

Slowly developing it for housing with some parkland retained along the river makes the most sense to me. That's a lot of row homes you could add to a city that at some point is going to become unaffordable.

My big question is what would happen to the freight rail lines (both the high line that runs on the west side of the Schuylkill and the one that runs along the east side by the river trail - I think these merge farther south but not too sure). There are still freight rail uses but would they so drastically reduce that you could also use these as a transit line?
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  #203  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2019, 11:21 AM
jsbrook jsbrook is offline
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Originally Posted by japmes View Post
I agree with this. Given the land area, location and industrial history, returning the area to nature or parkland is probably the best option if the facility closes permanently. It could be a nice nature reserve. Or maybe a golf course?
And closing permanently seems likely to happen sooner rather than later. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-r...POcQZJoXp13qtQ I wonder what the remediation cost and timeframe will be. I would think this will be a superfund site and a federal responsibility and project: https://www.epa.gov/superfund/superf...KCXeNhHUrpHO94
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  #204  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2019, 12:20 PM
Nova08 Nova08 is offline
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Originally Posted by eixample View Post
My big question is what would happen to the freight rail lines (both the high line that runs on the west side of the Schuylkill and the one that runs along the east side by the river trail - I think these merge farther south but not too sure). There are still freight rail uses but would they so drastically reduce that you could also use these as a transit line?
There will be minimal change to the rail lines outside of the trackage directly in the facility.

I believe CSX only runs 1-3 oil trains a week into PES. At the peak, they ran 1-3 a day. CSX still has a number of non-unit oil trains into and through South Philly every day.
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  #205  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2019, 1:22 PM
Larry King Larry King is offline
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Originally Posted by eixample View Post
A golf course is one of the worst possible redevelopment alternatives. Especially considering the city is already planning to get rid of the golf course at FDR park a short distance from here.

Slowly developing it for housing with some parkland retained along the river makes the most sense to me. That's a lot of row homes you could add to a city that at some point is going to become unaffordable.

My big question is what would happen to the freight rail lines (both the high line that runs on the west side of the Schuylkill and the one that runs along the east side by the river trail - I think these merge farther south but not too sure). There are still freight rail uses but would they so drastically reduce that you could also use these as a transit line?
Yes I agree, cap the contaminated soil and subdivide the land for rowhouses.
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  #206  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2019, 2:09 PM
Skintreesnail Skintreesnail is offline
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That's probably some pretty crazy contamination after 150 years of pollution. Not sure of what sort of remediation can be done to make it habitable again. Even wetlands seems like it would risk leeching whatever is captured in the soil into the water. Maybe parkland or grassland (I think I remember reading about certain grasses that remove contaminates from soil) would be safer. Being able to salvage the tracks for some sort of transit line would be cool; they go right through center city past the art museum and would be able to connect to the navy yard. That would probably contingent on the land being habitable though, unless the 25th street high line gets abandoned too. They still have all the shipping to serve though.
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  #207  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2019, 2:20 PM
Skintreesnail Skintreesnail is offline
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another closure:

https://www.inquirer.com/business/ha...-20190626.html

Quote:
Hahnemann University Hospital is closing, senior hospital staff were told in meetings Wednesday.

The closing will be orderly and will happen over several months
Sounds like Drexel is fighting it.
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  #208  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2019, 2:34 PM
Redddog Redddog is offline
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Originally Posted by PurpleWhiteOut View Post
Looks like PES may actually finally close. This would be huge news for the city's air quality.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-r...-idUSKCN1TR09E
Does some one have an areal view of where this refinery is and how much land it takes up?
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  #209  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2019, 2:55 PM
Skintreesnail Skintreesnail is offline
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Does some one have an areal view of where this refinery is and how much land it takes up?
Isn't it everything between 76 and the river (Girard Point and Point Breeze complexes)?



https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...223083zs-1.htm
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  #210  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2019, 3:55 PM
Justin7 Justin7 is offline
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Originally Posted by Skintreesnail View Post
another closure:

https://www.inquirer.com/business/ha...-20190626.html



Sounds like Drexel is fighting it.
This is a pretty huge mess for Drexel, isn't it? Is there any reasonable chance at all that the university could buy the hospital?
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  #211  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2019, 4:19 PM
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mcgrath618 mcgrath618 is offline
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Originally Posted by Skintreesnail View Post
another closure:

https://www.inquirer.com/business/ha...-20190626.html



Sounds like Drexel is fighting it.
Good that it’s closing down, it’s a terrible hospital especially comparative to others we have in the area.

I’ve heard that the building itself will be demolished. Hopefully the gorgeous Neo-Gothic one is staying, but if the building fronting Vine goes I will be one happy camper. It would be nice to see that lot developed into something new.
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  #212  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2019, 6:04 PM
Skintreesnail Skintreesnail is offline
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Originally Posted by Justin7 View Post
This is a pretty huge mess for Drexel, isn't it? Is there any reasonable chance at all that the university could buy the hospital?
I was wondering that too, but then they're moving their medical school buildings back over to university city. Maybe they should just start from scratch; "Drexel University Health System". I feel like Hahnemann has some sort of stigma attached to the name.
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  #213  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2019, 6:14 PM
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summersm343 summersm343 is offline
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Originally Posted by Skintreesnail View Post
I was wondering that too, but then they're moving their medical school buildings back over to university city. Maybe they should just start from scratch; "Drexel University Health System". I feel like Hahnemann has some sort of stigma attached to the name.
Agree. I was against Hahnemann closing until you brought up this point. They should just restart in UCity as Drexel Med.

Sell Hahnemann and their several blocks in Center City to be redeveloped.
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  #214  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2019, 6:21 PM
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iheartphilly iheartphilly is offline
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Drexel's School of Medicine is in a pickle. I don't think they alone can make the hospital solvent and that's maybe one reason why they sued. Also, where are they going to send their medical students for clinical rounds, residencies, and other real world learning opportunities?
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  #215  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2019, 8:26 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
Agree. I was against Hahnemann closing until you brought up this point. They should just restart in UCity as Drexel Med.

Sell Hahnemann and their several blocks in Center City to be redeveloped.
Awww, man, I have memories there.

I lived in Stiles Hall from 1998-1999 when I was doing pre-med post-grad schooling at what was then MCP Hahnemann. That was my first year living in a real city, carless, eating food from street vendors (back when food trucks weren't a fad).

I used to go to Westy's Tavern: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9596...7i16384!8i8192

I don't remember if it was called that back then, but a good place for pub grub, brew, and more brew.....

Ahhhh, the Philly days...
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  #216  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2019, 11:31 PM
eixample eixample is offline
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The redevelopment opportunities for the hospital closing down are enormous and that is where my mind went first, but won't this be awful for other hospitals in the area to have to absorb all those new patients?

Plus we could lose a ton of great jobs (renters, homeowners, taxpayers, and tax revenue)...a totally uninformed guess but I would bet that a higher proportion of Hahnemann people live in the city compared to the refinery workers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova08 View Post
There will be minimal change to the rail lines outside of the trackage directly in the facility.

I believe CSX only runs 1-3 oil trains a week into PES. At the peak, they ran 1-3 a day. CSX still has a number of non-unit oil trains into and through South Philly every day.
Thanks for the info!
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  #217  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2019, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova08 View Post
There will be minimal change to the rail lines outside of the trackage directly in the facility.

I believe CSX only runs 1-3 oil trains a week into PES. At the peak, they ran 1-3 a day. CSX still has a number of non-unit oil trains into and through South Philly every day.
FWIW, I believe more than 3 unit oil trains off of the BNSF pass through every week, but I'm pretty sure they go somewhere else in south Philly. I've heard that we have some natural gas plant that is unique on the East Coast (though, I can't remember if it was the one that, y'know, exploded!).
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  #218  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2019, 12:53 AM
japmes japmes is offline
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Originally Posted by jsbrook View Post
And closing permanently seems likely to happen sooner rather than later. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-r...POcQZJoXp13qtQ I wonder what the remediation cost and timeframe will be. I would think this will be a superfund site and a federal responsibility and project: https://www.epa.gov/superfund/superf...KCXeNhHUrpHO94
https://www.inquirer.com/news/philad...-20190626.html

Redeveloping the area as a major port facility might be the most realistic idea given the environmental issues.
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  #219  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2019, 10:22 AM
eixample eixample is offline
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Originally Posted by japmes View Post
https://www.inquirer.com/news/philad...-20190626.html

Redeveloping the area as a major port facility might be the most realistic idea given the environmental issues.
I can't read that article because of site limits, but do we really need a new port and is the Schuylkill anywhere close to the depth needed for a port?
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  #220  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2019, 1:09 PM
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Originally Posted by eixample View Post
I can't read that article because of site limits, but do we really need a new port and is the Schuylkill anywhere close to the depth needed for a port?
The Schuylkill is being dredged down to a 45 ft depth to accommodate larger ships and additional port traffic. Expected to be done in 2020. The State is investing $300m in capital improvements at our existing port facility. So it's possible I suppose, but they'll definitely want to wait and see how those improvements shake out first.
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