More transit improvements coming to Brampton. A model suburb for transit

[Doady]

In Mike's world, 11pm Sunday is only true measure of the amount of service. Having routes with Sunday frequencies of 14 minutes or 22 minutes for most of the day means nothing. Focusing on Sunday itself is pretty dumb. Really I can up with all sorts of criteria that makes Brampton look bad on a map compared to Mississauga, like for example the amount of Sunday routes with better than 30 min service, or the amount of express routes prior to 2010.

Originally Posted by miketoronto

Mississauga hates doing anything that is considered regional or of a benefit to their neighbours.

Mississauga is the city that believes in regional transit for every other area of the GTA, except for Peel.
So it is of no surprise they would not continue to Shoppers World, eventhough their very own residents go there to. They want to keep Mississauga residents in Mississauga
That is actually the reason the Living Arts Centre was built. The mayor did not want Mississauga residents going into Toronto for entertainment. Luckly that backfired

Umm...Brampton Transit doesn't want the 19 in Brampton either. This is policy of both Brampton and Mississauga. And Brampton provides service into Mississauga to benefit Brampton residents, not to benefit Brampton residents. Brampton is as opposed to Peel Region Transit as Mississauga is. It is lack of desire for regional cooperation from BOTH Brampton and Mississauga resutls in dumbass decisions like terminating the 19/202 at 407.

Furthermore, Mississauga currently provides way, WAY more service beyond its borders than Brampton does - MT routes 1, 1C, 3, 5, 7, 11, 12, 17, 19, 20, 22, 23, 26, 27, 30, 35, 35A, 45, 50, 57, 70, 76, 82, 89, 101, 102, 109, 201, 202 all provide service outside Mississauga, and some of this service is designed exclusively for Toronto residents (routes 17, 50, 70, 82). Not to mention until recently Mississauga paid for the TTC to extend provide the 32B in Airport Corporate Centre (even though the Toronto arguably should have paid for it itself), and still pay for the 58B and 58D to Malton.

Wanna talk about talk about lack of regional cooperation, Miketoronto? How about the complete lack of Toronto-funded TTC service outside of Toronto, aside from airport and Elson Drive in Markham? Seriously, the TTC ends the 36B and 37A at Mississauga border, a mere 1.2 km away from Westwood Mall. Even the 19/202 will still connect to the 407 bus service. The 36B and 37A connect to nothing.

And how about the lack of free transfers or any fare arrangement between TTC and 905 systems (including GO) compared to the transfer and fare arrangements that exist between 905 systems and GO? Or the TTC being the lone system that refuses to implement the Presto regional fare card?

Seriously Mike, you are grasping at straws here.

[J. Will]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

That Sprawl looks worse then the Sprawl in the Northeastern Megapolis and thats a model to go by

Great straw man argument

Nobody said anything about the "sprawl" being a model to go by. The discussion was about the level of transit service (coverage density, service frquency, hours of service) to service that sprawl. And the fact is that the level of transit service, especially for a suburb of only 4000 ppsm, is not "like every other major suburban in North America". If you bothered checking the schedules and maps, you'd see that it exceeds many "cities", let alone suburbs in levels of service.

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by Doady

In Mike's world, 11pm Sunday is only true measure of the amount of service. Having routes with Sunday frequencies of 14 minutes or 22 minutes for most of the day means nothing. Focusing on Sunday itself is pretty dumb. Really I can up with all sorts of criteria that makes Brampton look bad on a map compared to Mississauga, like for example the amount of Sunday routes with better than 30 min service, or the amount of express routes prior to 2010.

No. There was a talk about Mississauga and Brampton. So taking Brampton's service levels, I applied that to Mississauga and York, and that is the map.

Doady, sadly I wish your comments about MT were right. However after going through the schedules to make that map, the Sunday service on MT really proved to be even more dismal than I thought.
Most routes end service early, and the service is like every 45-60 minutes.

So I do with MT did have a ton of 15 minute frequency routes, etc. But on Sunday's it just does not.

So all that map was made to do was to see how the neighbouring systems stack up compared to Brampton's standards.

Umm...Brampton Transit doesn't want the 19 in Brampton either. This is policy of both Brampton and Mississauga.

So why don't both cities want the 19 to serve Shoppers World? What is the premise behind that?

and some of this service is designed exclusively for Toronto residents (routes 17, 50, 70, 82). Not to mention until recently Mississauga paid for the TTC to extend provide the 32B in Airport Corporate Centre (even though the Toronto arguably should have paid for it itself), and still pay for the 58B and 58D to Malton.

We all know why that service is provided. Mississauga needs to provide those buses from Islington to Meadowvale, because people don't want to work in Meadowvale and can't get out there if there is no transit. So Mississauga has to make Meadowvale viable for the people who live in the inner city, but are forced to work in Meadowvale, due to their companies vacating downtown Toronto.

Wanna talk about talk about lack of regional cooperation, Miketoronto? How about the complete lack of Toronto-funded TTC service outside of Toronto, aside from airport and Elson Drive in Markham? Seriously, the TTC ends the 36B and 37A at Mississauga border, a mere 1.2 km away from Westwood Mall. Even the 19/202 will still connect to the 407 bus service. The 36B and 37A connect to nothing.

I totally agree. The TTC needs to be much more into regional cooperation. That being said, there are rules and the TTC should not have to fund routes in the outer suburbs, when it has routes being cut within Toronto borders.

But for sure there needs to be improvements with the TTC and cross border service.

And how about the lack of free transfers or any fare arrangement between TTC and 905 systems (including GO) compared to the transfer and fare arrangements that exist between 905 systems and GO? Or the TTC being the lone system that refuses to implement the Presto regional fare card?

That is one of my biggest issues and I always complain about the TTC not offering a discount for GO riders.

[goodthings]

Originally Posted by Justin10000

In September, Mississuaga Transit is going to terminate the 19 at the 407 GO stop. This is going to go down as one the dumbest service charges MT has implemented.

Actually, all of MT 19's stops within Brampton will be serviced by 502 Zum Main and 2 Main, and majority of them go to/from Eglinton and express stops southward (Square One, Elm, Dundas, Paisley, Port Credit, etc.).

So it's more of a realignment.

[Justin10000]

Originally Posted by goodthings

Actually, all of MT 19's stops within Brampton will be serviced by 502 Zum Main and 2 Main, and majority of them go to/from Eglinton and express stops southward (Square One, Elm, Dundas, Paisley, Port Credit, etc.).

So it's more of a realignment.

You're correct, I retract my statement. I forgot the 502 Zum will travel all the way to Square One. 19 passengers travelling to Brampton will actually get a faster ride with the Zum service.

[Doady]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

No. There was a talk about Mississauga and Brampton. So taking Brampton's service levels, I applied that to Mississauga and York, and that is the map.

Doady, sadly I wish your comments about MT were right. However after going through the schedules to make that map, the Sunday service on MT really proved to be even more dismal than I thought.
Most routes end service early, and the service is like every 45-60 minutes.

So I do with MT did have a ton of 15 minute frequency routes, etc. But on Sunday's it just does not.

So all that map was made to do was to see how the neighbouring systems stack up compared to Brampton's standards.

MT's Sunday service is DISMAL. But I think your map is not an accurate picture of the difference in level of service. It is is an exaggeration of (e.g. 30 minute vs 33 minute on the 26), ignores the actual frequencies (14 minute frequencies on 1 and 19), and doesn't show the actual service span (e.g. until 2 am for Dundas). And of course, there's the fact that Sunday is only one day of the week and not indicative of overall quality of service.

So why don't both cities want the 19 to serve Shoppers World? What is the premise behind that?

Beats me. As I said, I don't agree with the policy. 19 and 202 should serve Shoppers World, especially 202, being an express route (should be designed for regional connection and long distances) and a precursor to one the three planned Hurontario-Main LRT routes. I know the Zum Main Line will serve Square One but still, it is not enough (and that's why the LRT will have three difference routes).

I should also point out also that MT will eventually introduce the 105 Dixie Express service between Long Branch and Bramalea City Centre as payback for the Zum service to MCC, so it's not like Brampton is getting nothing out of it.

We all know why that service is provided. Mississauga needs to provide those buses from Islington to Meadowvale, because people don't want to work in Meadowvale and can't get out there if there is no transit. So Mississauga has to make Meadowvale viable for the people who live in the inner city, but are forced to work in Meadowvale, due to their companies vacating downtown Toronto.

But the point is, Mississauga recognizes the need, and is willing to fund service for Toronto residents, while Toronto isn't willing to do the same for its own residents.

I totally agree. The TTC needs to be much more into regional cooperation. That being said, there are rules and the TTC should not have to fund routes in the outer suburbs, when it has routes being cut within Toronto borders.

But for sure there needs to be improvements with the TTC and cross border service.

I think Toronto can start by lifting the ban on 905 transit in Toronto including GO. The 905 systems and GO aren't allowed service trips within the City of Toronto boundaries (incoming buses are drop-off only and outgoing buses are pickup only). This is of course not only an inconvenience for regular MT riders, but also Toronto residents (e.g. Etobicoke residents are prohibited from using MT routes 11, 26, etc.).