Boise Transportation Thread

[BoiseAirport]

Great hearing from you ATLonthebrain, I too share your optimism for future service here. I suspect that Southwest may add a 3rd daily flight, and United may convert one or two of their CRJs into an A319, or something to that effect. Another thing I've been contemplating... Spirit has been expanding like crazy out of Las Vegas. I wonder if we might see them enter markets like LAS-GEG/BOI.

Personally, I would LOVE to see more 757 service here, but that's just because I think the 757 is 2nd only to the 747-400 in the sexiest airliners category.

[isangpogi]

Strange there has been no announcement from Frontier on cessation of service... I'll take your word for it though. Frontier has been cutting tons of routes and is in the process of dismantling their Milwaukee hub so if this were a breakup, I'm sure it would be Frontier saying to BOI "it's not you, it's me." It certainly is frustrating to see air options at BOI be so limited just over the past year. I was getting excited to see what kinds of changes Frontier would make as they transitioned to a low-cost carrier.

I agree with BoiseAirport about Spirit, I could totally see them coming in to serve Boise in the near future. If I were to make a list though of least desirable airlines to come into BOI then Sprit would be right up there with Allegiant.

[BoiseAirport]

Delta has added a 4th daily flight between Boise and Minneapolis to the schedule in June, which if true will mark the first time this route has been served with more than 3 daily flights. The equipment is showing 1 737-800, 1 A320, and 2 CRJ-900s which is a heavy increase over the 3 CRJ-900s we've seen in recent years and about matches the most amount of seats the route has ever seen.

It appears their schedule to Salt Lake City in the summer is still a dummy schedule, so if we're getting the 757 in March through May, I'm really curious to see how the schedule will look in the peak summer months. Also, I'm very curious to see United's schedule and how they react, if they do, to the recent cuts.

[isangpogi]

Originally Posted by BoiseAirport

Delta has added a 4th daily flight between Boise and Minneapolis to the schedule in June, which if true will mark the first time this route has been served with more than 3 daily flights. The equipment is showing 1 737-800, 1 A320, and 2 CRJ-900s which is a heavy increase over the 3 CRJ-900s we've seen in recent years and about matches the most amount of seats the route has ever seen.

It appears their schedule to Salt Lake City in the summer is still a dummy schedule, so if we're getting the 757 in March through May, I'm really curious to see how the schedule will look in the peak summer months. Also, I'm very curious to see United's schedule and how they react, if they do, to the recent cuts.

I'll be interested in knowing how full those Delta 757s end up being. I've never flown in one before that I know of... Are they similar to 737s just longer? I've been in small planes like CRJs, Q400s and 737s and the big guys like 777 and 747 but never the middle ground planes.

To me it would make good sense for United to add one more nonstop to LAX, at least for the summer months. As it is, United flies BOI to LAX at 11 am and at 8 pm. The earliest UA flight is a 5:45 through SFO that arrives in LA just after 9. It would be smart for them to add an early flight for people going down on business. This would keep competitors (Horizon or Delta) from trying to do the same route and starting a fare war. A fare war would be good for travelers though... Boise could support three daily CRJ nonstops to LAX if scheduled well, four (American and United) was too much capacity.

I keep hearing that good things are coming to BOI, but so far nothing but bad news... Both Alaska and Southwest made some adjustments recently and neither involved Boise...

[ATLonthebrain]

There will be good things coming to BOI, but developments with airlines considering new service don't happen overnight. Some of this recent bad news is what will allow good news to be announced. New opportunities are created by these flight reductions. I somewhat disagree that 4-flights to LAX was overcapacity. I was told American filled 85% of its seats in January, right before the flights ended. United continued to do about as well as it had been before American arrived. I agree it would be wise for United to add another frequency. 3-flights would be perfect and likely do as you suggest in keeping out competition. Only time will tell whether United agrees with you and I.

The 757-200 typically holds about 180-186 passengers in a 2-class config. It is virtually the same fuselage length as a 737-900, if you've ever been on one of those. It's been around for 30-years now, but is still very much in demand, thankfully, as it's a great looking airplane!

[boi2socal]

I don't think American gave the route a chance. As you noted loads were fine, they just have really high costs. Assuming SkyWest has available aircraft, I would think Delta would be able to make LAX work. They too have a hub, code share with Alaska and other international carriers, and already have a presence in Boise.

[BoiseAirport]

If I were to guess, I'd say don't be surprised to see Alaska/Horizon restart Boise to Los Angeles. They'd have a far better chance, IMO, than Delta would at making it work, since AS/QX has a larger FFer base and has such a close relationship with Delta anyway. The reason I think they'd restart it is that Southwest almost certainly cut into the Boise-Los Angeles market with easy one-stops via Reno. With the Reno service ended, that lessens the competition on the route even if only slightly. 85% load factor on an ERJ-145 would be enough to make a Q400 profitable with AS/QX's cost structure.

The only problem is that it's a longer route, and we have to see where fuel prices are going. If they indeed will skyrocket like some folks are predicting, then a longer Q400 route may not make sense. For better or worse, I think AS/QX has a major opportunity on their hands. After a very very close battle for market share in the last 2 decades, Southwest "blinked" by cutting Boise to Seattle/Reno/Salt Lake City and shedding frequencies. If AS were to strike fiercely now, adding Reno/Los Angeles, perhaps restarting Spokane and Oakland, even if they temporarily lose money on the routes, they could drive Southwest to leave Boise entirely, which would suddenly give them a significantly larger share of the market. If that were to happen, I think we could even see a renaissance of the Boise hub that AS/QX used to have.

[isangpogi]

Originally Posted by boi2socal

I don't think American gave the route a chance. As you noted loads were fine, they just have really high costs. Assuming SkyWest has available aircraft, I would think Delta would be able to make LAX work. They too have a hub, code share with Alaska and other international carriers, and already have a presence in Boise.

I have no inside information about American but my hunch is that they pulled out for the same reason Frontier is pulling out, because the airline is in trouble. American came in with service to only LAX, and likely planned to add service to their other hubs like DFW and ORD. When American's parent company, AMR, declared bankruptcy, American had to cut costs. At that point it didn't make sense to invest more money into expanding Boise service and keeping a destination open for just two roundtrips a day to one destination wasn't sustainable. Over the past several months, American has continued to decrease capacity systemwide (although I'm not aware of any other destinations cut off completely).

Any one of several airlines could restart BOI-LAX service. Skywest now flies CRJs for Alaska in addition to Delta so either could be an option, also Horizon's Q400s would make sense.

@BoiseAirport- AS/QX may be able to bully Southwest out of PDX-BOI but I doubt they pull out entirely. There is still demand for BOI-LAS, PHX and DEN which I don't see AS/QX serving in the foreseeable future from Boise.

As an aside, as we're talking about air service while the Hawks are trying to get a new stadium built, how cool would it be for them to build an Alaska Airlines Field??

[boisechev]

Have they started construction on the new freeway that will be built from the Emmett highway towards I-84?

The website for ITD says they were going to start in January but I haven't heard anything.

What would be the timeframe for the completion of this project once they start part 2 from Chinden to I-84?

[BoiseAirport]

Delta's 757s have arrived in Boise! I just got back from the airport to snap some pics, looks great seeing this sexy beast at the airport!


Delta 757-200 in Boise (Gate B22) by N437QX, on Flickr


Delta 757-200 in Boise (Gate B22) by N437QX, on Flickr

[Hawk]

What a Beauty!

[ATLonthebrain]

Great shots of the B757! You should drop by on Sun night when there will be 2 of them in town..there are a couple of other days this week with two B757 overnights, but Sun is for sure. That would be soooo sweet to get a pic of!

[isangpogi]

Hey great pictures! I agree with ATL, a picture of the two 757s would be a neat shot. I might try and get over to the airport on Sunday night as well. Just out of curiosity, any idea what kind of equipment FedEx flies into Boise? That FedEx plane in the background looks massive in comparison to the Delta bird pulling in... Is it a widebody?

[electricron]

The 757 is no longer in production. They had the exact same cockpit as the 767, which allowed pilots of one qualified for the other plane via common type rating.

757s were built between 1983–2004, a total of 1050 planes were produced, capacity of 200 to 234 persons (-200), and up to 289 persons (-300), with a maximum range of 3,100 to 4,100 nautical miles (5,700 to 7,600 km), depending on variant with the -200 units having greater range than -300 units because they share same sized fuel tanks.

Boeing was building the -300, -400, and -500 models (Classic series) of the 737s in the 1980s, and introduced the -500, -600, -700, and -800 (Next Generation) models in the 1990s. Keeping the discussion limited to the Classic series, 1988 were produced, capacity of 108 to 189 persons, with a maximum range of 2,270–2,400 nautical miles ((4,200–4,400 km).

Therefore the 757s had both larger capacity and longer range than the existing 737s at the time both planes were in production.

[ATLonthebrain]

FedEx flies the Airbus 300 and B757 into BOI. The Airbus is a widebody and goes to SLC & OAK from BOI, I think. The B757 goes to MEM, the granddaddy of cargo hubs worldwide.

Delta's 2 757's probably won't be on the ground until after 11pm, fyi. You can check on their website to see if they have arrived before making the trip to the airport. One is coming from MSP and the other from SLC, both the last flights of the night from those cities into BOI.

[BoiseAirport]

Originally Posted by ATLonthebrain

FedEx flies the Airbus 300 and B757 into BOI. The Airbus is a widebody and goes to SLC & OAK from BOI, I think. The B757 goes to MEM, the granddaddy of cargo hubs worldwide.

Delta's 2 757's probably won't be on the ground until after 11pm, fyi. You can check on their website to see if they have arrived before making the trip to the airport. One is coming from MSP and the other from SLC, both the last flights of the night from those cities into BOI.

LOL, reminds me of a story that happened about two years ago. In January 2010, US Airways sent the A321 into Boise for a couple weeks, thanks to Boise State going to the Fiesta Bowl in Phoenix. So naturally, I HAVE to get some photos of this rare event. I was pulling an all-nighter thanks to school, and wide-awake at 3am with a break in my homework, I decide it's a good time to check it out.

I drive around the terminal trying to find a easy place to park and go see it since it was freezing outside and I didn't want to walk too far. At that point I didn't realize that I was doing it in the most suspicious way possible, and when I finally get out and snap some pics, I see a police car driving up toward me. Had a good talking to by the police officer to please call ops before driving around the terminal at 3am so they know what I'm doing.

Here were two shots I got... funny night that was.


US Airways A321 in Boise (Gate B18) by N437QX, on Flickr


Delta Connection CRJ-900 in Boise (Gate B16) by N437QX, on Flickr

[BoiseAirport]

In the Horizon Air magazine, a great article about Boise.

http://horizonair.journalgraphicsdigital.com/mar12/

[BoiseAirport]

Minor news:

US Airways is adding a third daily flight starting in July on Boise to Phoenix. Flight will depart Boise at 8:45pm and arrive in Phoenix at 9:47pm connecting with red-eye departures to the Eastern US.

I was pleasantly surprised to see this change considering the schedule on this route has remained almost exactly the same for around 6 years.

[isangpogi]

Originally Posted by BoiseAirport

Minor news:

US Airways is adding a third daily flight starting in July on Boise to Phoenix. Flight will depart Boise at 8:45pm and arrive in Phoenix at 9:47pm connecting with red-eye departures to the Eastern US.

I was pleasantly surprised to see this change considering the schedule on this route has remained almost exactly the same for around 6 years.

Ah... Some positive news out of BOI! Great to hear BA! Good to hear Delta is increasing service to MSP and US is adding service to PHX. Just waiting to hear now who is going to pick up LAX service where American Eagle left off...

Anyone know what happened with Alaska's Idaho Falls service? Someone on the Idaho Falls thread seemed to indicate knowledge that the route was in fact profitable but they pulled out anyway . I tried to follow up but my question went unnoticed. I think it's a shame that the only intra-idaho service is Boise to Lewiston. I understand not having Sun Valley service, but it would be nice to have an affordable air option to the other side of the state. Sea Port was far too expensive to be sustainable at ~$350 r/t!

United flies between Seattle and Portland 8x daily on Embraer 120 Brasilia props which seat thirty. They might be able to make BOI-IDA work a couple times a day. They already have a presence at both airports so they wouldn't be dedicating staff solely to the route like Sea Port and Horizon did. Also, pax from Idaho Falls could continue from Boise on to San Francisco or Los Angeles or Phoenix on partner US Airways. For SEA-PDX service United charges as low as about $160 r/t. I would think they could make BOI-IDA work for not much more...

Delta has the same equipment used for routes like SLC-Sun Valley and SLC-West Yellowstone. Delta already has a presence at both airports as well but connecting to Delta destinations in Boise wouldn't make much sense since Delta only flies back to the east from here to SLC and MSP.

Anyway, just bouncing some thoughts around... If Alaska's Q400s were too big for the route then maybe EMB 120's could be a good fit...

[BoiseAirport]

Originally Posted by isangpogi

Ah... Some positive news out of BOI! Great to hear BA! Good to hear Delta is increasing service to MSP and US is adding service to PHX. Just waiting to hear now who is going to pick up LAX service where American Eagle left off...

Anyone know what happened with Alaska's Idaho Falls service? Someone on the Idaho Falls thread seemed to indicate knowledge that the route was in fact profitable but they pulled out anyway . I tried to follow up but my question went unnoticed. I think it's a shame that the only intra-idaho service is Boise to Lewiston. I understand not having Sun Valley service, but it would be nice to have an affordable air option to the other side of the state. Sea Port was far too expensive to be sustainable at ~$350 r/t!

United flies between Seattle and Portland 8x daily on Embraer 120 Brasilia props which seat thirty. They might be able to make BOI-IDA work a couple times a day. They already have a presence at both airports so they wouldn't be dedicating staff solely to the route like Sea Port and Horizon did. Also, pax from Idaho Falls could continue from Boise on to San Francisco or Los Angeles or Phoenix on partner US Airways. For SEA-PDX service United charges as low as about $160 r/t. I would think they could make BOI-IDA work for not much more...

Delta has the same equipment used for routes like SLC-Sun Valley and SLC-West Yellowstone. Delta already has a presence at both airports as well but connecting to Delta destinations in Boise wouldn't make much sense since Delta only flies back to the east from here to SLC and MSP.

Anyway, just bouncing some thoughts around... If Alaska's Q400s were too big for the route then maybe EMB 120's could be a good fit...

I totally agree that the E-120 is probably the perfect sized aircraft for the route. Horizon for years used to operate 3-5x daily Dash-8 Q200 flights between Boise and Lewiston, Sun Valley, Idaho Falls, Lewiston and Twin Falls each. And there was two huge reasons that operation was profitable: fuel was low, and there was high frequency so it became far more convenient to fly rather than drive.

Contrary to what some folks think in Idaho Falls, the route was just not profitable in its final years of operation. The problem is that for this route to be attractive to the business customer and effectively compete with the car, it needs frequency -- at least 2-3x daily. Fuel is just too high right now for that to be feasible. SeaPort couldn't make it work because they were using entirely the wrong airplane for the mission. Horizon really did all they could to stimulate demand but one flight just wasn't enough and there was just too much risk and not enough reward in trying to stimulate demand through frequency, with fuel being the price it was and numerous other circumstances.