CHICAGO | Wolf Point - West Tower | 493 FT | 48 FLOORS

[jarta]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

I'm honestly not paying too much attention to the actual design of the individual towers, because they will of course change, perhaps markedly, between now and (even after entitlements granted) until Hines approaches the time when they deem each individual tower financially feasible within a 6-12 month period, or thereabouts.

However, I'm very happy to hear that BKL is planned to be part of the team, designing the planned first tower. This is fantastic news. Kudos to Hines for bringing in Magellan, and speaking of Magellan - how about it? Over the last decade they've gone from being a developer pushing out horrid residential high-rise design, one after the next, to being somewhat of a major patron of true high-quality design among the city's private developers. Hopefully this spurs other players in Chicago to do the same.

Also, the pressure really needs to be put on Reilly to see through this transparently view obstruction-motivated 'neighborhood group' and approve a dense, tall development (leaving an appropriate amount of open space) at Wolf Point, which is the right thing to do. I'd like to see Rahm lobby hard for approval as well, over Nimby nonsense arguments (for a good laugh, see the tortured rationale layed-out on the group's website for - apparently what would amount to a downzoning, or at least inappropriately small PD entitlements....)

There needs to be an appropriate amount of park (not just open) space at Wolf Point. Open space is mainly for those who work and live at the site. Park space is for everyone to use (doesn't matter who owns it). There is a difference.

BTW, there is a document called a Development Rights Agreement recorded against the Wolf Point/Apparel Center PD property on March 9, 1998 as Document 98284705. It creates the view rights in favor of the Apparel Center that force the narrow, north-south oriented configuration of the first 2 towers in the current plan.

The recorded document also includes a self-limitation on the number of structures to be built on Wolf Point. It states that: "The Wolf Point Development shall consist of a one or two-tower multi-use facility" plus a separate parking structure, if necessary. Deleting one of the three towers from the plan of development would leave lots of room for an actual park and unclutter the site.

The Wolf Point owner filed yesterday to amend the existing PD. We will just have to see what the Plan Commission does to refine the current development plan.

[BraveNewWorld]

Originally Posted by jarta

There needs to be an appropriate amount of park (not just open) space at Wolf Point. Open space is mainly for those who work and live at the site. Park space is for everyone to use (doesn't matter who owns it). There is a difference.

BTW, there is a document called a Development Rights Agreement recorded against the Wolf Point/Apparel Center PD property on March 9, 1998 as Document 98284705. It creates the view rights in favor of the Apparel Center that force the narrow, north-south oriented configuration of the first 2 towers in the current plan.

The recorded document also includes a self-limitation on the number of structures to be built on Wolf Point. It states that: "The Wolf Point Development shall consist of a one or two-tower multi-use facility" plus a separate parking structure, if necessary. Deleting one of the three towers from the plan of development would leave lots of room for an actual park and unclutter the site.

The Wolf Point owner filed yesterday to amend the existing PD. We will just have to see what the Plan Commission does to refine the current development plan.

The Wolf Point owner filed yesterday to amend the existing PD. We will just have to see what the Plan Commission does to refine the current development plan.

Any idea when we will know if they approved the plan, or approved the amendment ?

[jarta]

Originally Posted by BraveNewWorld

Any idea when we will know if they approved the plan, or approved the amendment ?

The aldermen have always had a lot of say-so on how quickly things move (and if they move at all) for Chicago zoning matters in their wards.

Ald. Reilly said 2 days ago there would be more public meetings before the current proposal gets to the City Plan Commission. I don't know there is any set schedule. The mystery of Chicago government is that sometime things move lightning fast - and sometime glacially slow. Go figure!

[Standpoor]

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop

Also, the pressure really needs to be put on Reilly to see through this transparently view obstruction-motivated 'neighborhood group' and approve a dense, tall development (leaving an appropriate amount of open space) at Wolf Point, which is the right thing to do. I'd like to see Rahm lobby hard for approval as well, over Nimby nonsense arguments (for a good laugh, see the tortured rationale layed-out on the group's website for - apparently what would amount to a downzoning, or at least inappropriately small PD entitlements....)

This has fourth floor written all over it. We defer to the alderman on zoning issues but this is wolf point and the Kennedys, if they convince Rahm that this is a good deal, game over. Reilly will not be able to stop it if Rahm is behind it nor would he even try. This is $40 million a year in tax revenue and no tif money, Rahm will be a booster and so will Reilly.

As an aside, if the residents of 333 want to pay $40 million dollars a year more in taxes to keep wolf point a park, I would be ok with nothing being built there. Otherwise...(I will let you fill in whatever profanity laced tirade you want towards them).

[rgolch]

Ok couple of points.

To start, I'd like a someone to explain to me how several posters are upset that the south and east towers look like lazy, recycled material for Pelli, yet they sing praise for the west tower. Admittedly, the western edge of the west tower is interesting in how it interfaces with the riverwalk. But doesn't it look similar to about a hundred other buildings in Chicago. It's a glass box with balconies. To the casual observer, it won't even get noticed. Look at it from the point of view of River North resident, and not the view of an architect.

Second, there is a lot of criticisms of the similarity of the south and east towers with Pelli's other works. But isn't that the point? I think that once you hit a certain level of international recognition, you have to stick to your "branding." Before these renderings were released, I went the the Pelli et al. website, and looked at a lot of the projects. And after the WP renders were released, I have to say it's pretty much what I expected. Admittedly, I was hoping for a little more, but I think this project is far from set in stone. It'll get tweaked for sure. As someone else said, a spire might be nice.

Finally, as I've said in other posts, I think we have to temper expectations for what this particular site deserves. Ask any normal person living in Chicago what Wolf Point is; very few people outside of the real estate or architecture world will know about Wolf Point. I'm not denying that it has significance, but it's not sacred ground. It only deserves what the market determines will be built there. A lot of posters say "we should demand only the best!" But I seriously doubt the Kennedy family, and other developers put much stock in the casual observers opinions. Our opinions may, on some microscopic level, trickle to the city approval process, but that's about it. I only reinforce these points because I think some forumers may be setting themselves up for another Block 37 category disappointment.

[BraveNewWorld]

Originally Posted by Standpoor

This has fourth floor written all over it. We defer to the alderman on zoning issues but this is wolf point and the Kennedys, if they convince Rahm that this is a good deal, game over. Reilly will not be able to stop it if Rahm is behind it nor would he even try. This is $40 million a year in tax revenue and no tif money, Rahm will be a booster and so will Reilly.

As an aside, if the residents of 333 want to pay $40 million dollars a year more in taxes to keep wolf point a park, I would be ok with nothing being built there. Otherwise...(I will let you fill in whatever profanity laced tirade you want towards them).

As an aside, if the residents of 333 want to pay $40 million dollars a year more in taxes to keep wolf point a park, I would be ok with nothing being built there. Otherwise...(I will let you fill in whatever profanity laced tirade you want towards them)

This has fourth floor written all over it. We defer to the alderman on zoning issues but this is wolf point and the Kennedys, if they convince Rahm that this is a good deal, game over. Reilly will not be able to stop it if Rahm is behind it nor would he even try. This is $40 million a year in tax revenue and no tif money, Rahm will be a booster and so will Reilly.

Yeah, so are you saying this is pretty much a done deal, excluding the possibility of Rahm not acting like a Chicago mayor ?

[Standpoor]

Originally Posted by BraveNewWorld

Yeah, so are you saying this is pretty much a done deal, excluding the possibility of Rahm not acting like a Chicago mayor ?

This is a done deal. Rahm is more of a Chicago mayor than Daley ever was. These community meetings are to let the NIMBY's blow off steam, nothing will come of it.

I should also ask: Does anyone think Rahm will allow a $1,000,000,000 development be scuttled by a bunch of NIMBYs or any group for that matter?

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by rgolch

I only reinforce these points because I think some forumers may be setting themselves up for another Block 37 category disappointment.

are we not allowed to be disappointed with sub-par development in our city?

the architecture of the pelli-designed towers, as seen thus far, is woefully bland, generic, and uninspired. given the high profile and visibility of the site, it WILL BE a block 37 category disappointment if that's what we really end up getting.

[BraveNewWorld]

Originally Posted by Standpoor

This is a done deal. Rahm is more of a Chicago mayor than Daley ever was. These community meetings are to let the NIMBY's blow off steam, nothing will come of it.

I should also ask: Does anyone think Rahm will allow a $1,000,000,000 development be scuttled by a bunch of NIMBYs or any group for that matter?

Haha true. So now that we know he is a Chicago mayor, should we throw in bets about how tall the spire will be ?

[headcase]

Originally Posted by Standpoor

As an aside, if the residents of 333 want to pay $40 million dollars a year more in taxes to keep wolf point a park, I would be ok with nothing being built there. Otherwise...(I will let you fill in whatever profanity laced tirade you want towards them).

...as well as paying the Kennedys market value for the land, plus all of the various interests their share of the development profits....


Can you imagine THAT special assessment?

SSDD

[Zapatan]

the architecture of the pelli-designed towers, as seen thus far, is woefully bland, generic, and uninspired. given the high profile and visibility of the site, it WILL BE a block 37 category disappointment if that's what we really end up getting.

I personally like it, not every biulding is going to be a super masterpiece, it will definitely be a postive addition to the Chicago skyline though for sure.


I count about 55 floors for the tallest tower,

I guess we should change the title to 950 feet then (290m).

[Standpoor]

One more, even though the Tribune won't like me changing their image.



Enough fun, now I have to get back to work.

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

Originally Posted by rgolch

To start, I'd like a someone to explain to me how several posters are upset that the south and east towers look like lazy, recycled material for Pelli, yet they sing praise for the west tower. Admittedly, the western edge of the west tower is interesting in how it interfaces with the riverwalk. But doesn't it look similar to about a hundred other buildings in Chicago. It's a glass box with balconies. To the casual observer, it won't even get noticed. Look at it from the point of view of River North resident, and not the view of an architect.

You know what else looks similar? All the Second Empire buildings that line the streets of Paris. The Neoclassical blocks in DC. Many of the Art Deco towers in New York. The "casual observer" would probably have a hard time telling most of these apart, but that doesn't necessarily diminish the individual significance of any one or the overall effect of the whole.

Originally Posted by rgolch

Second, there is a lot of criticisms of the similarity of the south and east towers with Pelli's other works. But isn't that the point? I think that once you hit a certain level of international recognition, you have to stick to your "branding."

People aren't upset because of the similarity itself. They're upset because what they're similar to is garbage: meaningless shapes the soul purpose of which is to dazzle, and which barely respond to their context (physical, historical, architectural)—if they respond to it at all. That kind of design philosophy rarely makes for good architecture, and certainly has no place in Chicago.

Originally Posted by rgolch

Finally, as I've said in other posts, I think we have to temper expectations for what this particular site deserves. Ask any normal person living in Chicago what Wolf Point is; very few people outside of the real estate or architecture world will know about Wolf Point. I'm not denying that it has significance, but it's not sacred ground. It only deserves what the market determines will be built there. A lot of posters say "we should demand only the best!" But I seriously doubt the Kennedy family, and other developers put much stock in the casual observers opinions. Our opinions may, on some microscopic level, trickle to the city approval process, but that's about it. I only reinforce these points because I think some forumers may be setting themselves up for another Block 37 category disappointment.

Again: Outcry from the architecture community led to major design revisions to the Trump Tower, and I can't think of anyone with a bigger ego than that douchebag. Anyway, I think you're confusing desires and expectations. A lot of us desire something great for Pelli's portion of the site even though, at this point, we don't really expect it.

[Zapatan]

it's ashame this development is going to take so long, it would be nice if Chicago got another supertall before this was completed.

[rgolch]

Originally Posted by Ch.G, Ch.G

Again: Outcry from the architecture community led to major design revisions to the Trump Tower, and I can't think of anyone with a bigger ego than that douchebag. Anyway, I think you're confusing desires and expectations. A lot of us desire something great for Pelli's portion of the site even though, at this point, we don't really expect it.

Well, it's good to know that the architecture community can make an impact. I still don't think what's presented thus far is as much of a disaster as some of you are making it out to be, but it's fun reading everyone's opinions.

[BraveNewWorld]

I did a little photo editing, and came up with some spire ideas












So what do you think ?

[rgolch]

^^^ not bad Brave. You might be on to something.

[BraveNewWorld]

Originally Posted by rgolch

^^^ not bad Brave. You might be on to something.

I will do some less choppy edits later, when I have some more time

[Chief Blackhawk]

Originally Posted by rgolch

Well, it's good to know that the architecture community can make an impact. I still don't think what's presented thus far is as much of a disaster as some of you are making it out to be, but it's fun reading everyone's opinions.

Please share with us what you see as sound architecture; what is your philosophy?

[rgolch]

Originally Posted by Chief Blackhawk

Please share with us what you see as sound architecture; what is your philosophy?

Well, if I'm being honest, I really don't have a philosophy. I'm certainly much less of form follows function guy, and am much more concerned with aesthetics. Not that I don't have an appreciation for some great modernist buildings that we have in Chicago, like the IBM building. But I like to see more variety in our city, and hopefully Pelli and associates will rework what we've seen to give us something special. I will admit, I certainly don't look at these buildings with the same degree of sophistication that a lot of the rest of you do. But neither will the vast majority of Chicagoans.