James North

[highwater]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

the James North StudioWorks project

Again with the lame-ass names. What is it with this town?

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

This building should be residential...

The 9,000-square-foot building will also include a shared boardroom, kitchen and washrooms with showers.

Sounds like a cushy version of the classic cold-water flat. Throw a bar fridge, hot plate and cot in your studio and you're gold.

[omro]

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

Yup - the business case is clear in the short run - but an oversaturation of studios and nowhere for the artists to live is a bad long term recipe...

We thought that too, that there was perhaps a potential for too many studios in that area causing a lack of demand. Especially when you consider the costs of paying for studio space and living space. Our thought process was to have small living spaces (kitchen, bathroom, bedroom) attached to a larger studio/sitting room.

However, the thing that stopped us persuing the building was that it's not the entire building anymore, the last unit on the north end of James (with yellow signage) is actually a separate entity, so that reduced the internal space and also the ability to create a consistent aesthetic on the exterior of the building. With the reduced internal space, we couldn't see how it would be possible to create enough apartments of legally conforming sizes which would generate enough income to cover the renovation costs, so the studio idea with shared facilities does make the most logical sense. Also what we considered too great an issue with the separated section was that it reduced control over the entire building and that rear access was through the rear space of the separated section. The article does meantion 4 retail units, as the building was marketed with 4: 3 on James, 1 on Mulberry. They could have brokered a deal to buy back the separate section, however we were told that that would be at least an additional $200k on top of the marketed price of $579k or $599k (I forget which) that the building was up for.

As for a coffee shop... James North seriously lacks a decent young trendy arty something geared coffee shop, so we actually thought that was a decent business to put there. Your young trendy arty something is not that likely to spend their days in the other places on that street that serve coffee, mainly because they cater to middle aged italian or middle aged portuguese men and lack that young trendy arty something look that would attract them into the place.

Though, also of note, when we were looking at the building, the Martini bar across the way was still a bar and it now is going to be a cafe/coffee shop/gallery which probably will compete for business. That could have an impact upon the viability of this business.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by highwater

Again with the lame-ass names. What is it with this town?

Yeah, I would have called it This Ain't Hollywood. What do you mean taken! Then lets go with Street Meat BBQ. Huh, what do you mean that's gone too.....

Let's do a brainstorm, and see if we can get something better.

[adam]

What about just keeping the original name Hotel Hamilton? Especially if they are keeping a lot of the original features.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by adam

What about just keeping the original name Hotel Hamilton?

Yes, that would be the best name, it doesn't matter that it won't be a hotel anymore. If anything, that would be super kewl, when you think about it.

[Jon Dalton]

I wonder if something like this could make it in the ground floor: http://www.greenbeanery.ca/bean/home.php

[FairHamilton]

Hotel Hamilton works well, and if they wanted to differentiate it from the recent past they could do something like the following;

• Hamilton Hotel Arts
• Hamilton Hotel Studios
• Hamilton Hotel Collective

The could also leverage a previous name, i.e. The Drake Artist Collective. Or how about Siesta Fiesta (that one was a joke).

[emge]

Originally Posted by Jon Dalton

I wonder if something like this could make it in the ground floor: http://www.greenbeanery.ca/bean/home.php

I've been there a few times. It's a great space. It would be amazing to see something like that on James North.

I also agree that a coffee shop that's easy to walk into (no "intimidation" factor") would be nice to have on James North. If there's not familiarity like there is with a chain, there needs to be a very welcoming atmosphere, signage, and product.

Although I do wonder if James North has the foot traffic required (I think coffee shops generally rely on 1 in 200 people who walk by stopping, though I could be wrong, that's one figure I've heard) to keep up anything of that calibre - the Green Beanery in the Annex has packed sidewalks past it all day and is across the street from Honest Ed's.

Pretty great to dream, though, isn't it?

[omro]

It'll definitely get foot traffic one night a month if it's open late enough

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by emge

I also agree that a coffee shop that's easy to walk into (no "intimidation" factor") would be nice to have on James North. If there's not familiarity like there is with a chain, there needs to be a very welcoming atmosphere, signage, and product.

If you said that about somewhere like Mex-I-Can, it would be heresy.

[Blurr]

Ragin Cajan will be opening on James St N on August 14th. Louisiana cuisine. North of Robert St on the east side.

I also noticed a soccer store open at 240 James N. I think it is new... I have never seen it before.

[adam]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

If you said that about somewhere like Mex-I-Can, it would be heresy.

I could be wrong but isn't Mex-i-can a cultural gathering place for Hamilton's Mexican population? What does this have to do with a coffee shop?

[omro]

Originally Posted by adam

I could be wrong but isn't Mex-i-can a cultural gathering place for Hamilton's Mexican population? What does this have to do with a coffee shop?

Nothing, but it's a comment on the theme (which was brought up in the discussion about coffee shops) about certain places on James North already providing a good service, but potentially putting off "young trendy" or "out of town" types by its lack of inclusivity.

[thistleclub]

I've never thought of Mex-I-Can as a Hispanic-centric cultural centre. What I was getting at was the idea that you might be able to draw more people to somewhere like Mex-I-Can if you dressed it up for maximum market penetration, but that in doing so you would sacrifice something ineffable about what makes a place great. The Gown and Gavel, for example, as opposed to The Winking Judge.

It's also possible that for people who've frequented James North for more than five years (some of them WASP!), the "cultural" valuation of the street doesn't merely hinge on the gallery set.

That said, coffee places seem to be fairly blue chip. (I wouldn't have thought three blocks of Locke South would need four java joints, but there you are.) I'm sure it'll serve a market.

[SABBATICAL!]

Originally Posted by emge

I've been there a few times. It's a great space. It would be amazing to see something like that on James North.

I also agree that a coffee shop that's easy to walk into (no "intimidation" factor") would be nice to have on James North. If there's not familiarity like there is with a chain, there needs to be a very welcoming atmosphere, signage, and product.

Although I do wonder if James North has the foot traffic required (I think coffee shops generally rely on 1 in 200 people who walk by stopping, though I could be wrong, that's one figure I've heard) to keep up anything of that calibre - the Green Beanery in the Annex has packed sidewalks past it all day and is across the street from Honest Ed's.

Pretty great to dream, though, isn't it?

Green Beanery is largely focused on bulk sales of green coffee, though, not so much prepared coffee retail, so it's a bit of a different model...

However:

I'm part of an organization starting up this fall called Ethical Coffee Chain. We're rebuilding the coffee supply chain from the ground up to lower the price of fairly traded coffee while maximizing returns for the farmers, creating as direct a relationship between the two as possible.

We're planning on shipping containers of coffee right into Hamilton Harbour and would like to locate somewhere near the harbour, so James North would be a perfect location for us to put a storefront!

I've already been talking to the owners of the James Market stretch about their properties, Dave at Mixed Media a bit, and some others, trying to sketch out potential locations. Didn't realize this building would be an option, potentially!

Anyone have the contact info for the guys working on this project? I'd love to chat with them... adam@ethicalcoffeechain.org

[highwater]

Wow. Great idea. Good luck.

Originally Posted by SteelTown

To inquire about the project, contact Glen Norton at 905-870-1632 or glennorton@quickclic.net or Jeremy Freiburger at 905-548-0111.

[emge]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

I've never thought of Mex-I-Can as a Hispanic-centric cultural centre. What I was getting at was the idea that you might be able to draw more people to somewhere like Mex-I-Can if you dressed it up for maximum market penetration, but that in doing so you would sacrifice something ineffable about what makes a place great. The Gown and Gavel, for example, as opposed to The Winking Judge.

It's also possible that for people who've frequented James North for more than five years (some of them WASP!), the "cultural" valuation of the street doesn't merely hinge on the gallery set.

That said, coffee places seem to be fairly blue chip. (I wouldn't have thought three blocks of Locke South would need four java joints, but there you are.) I'm sure it'll serve a market.

I understand what you're saying, and I agree... you don't just want to stick a Starbucks on the corner, but that may be the only way a coffee shop (in some areas) would get enough business to thrive.

I've been a barista at chains and independents, Toronto and Hamilton, and my current perspective is coming from the International Village area of King Street... where two cafes have opened and shut down, another one survives by being a restaurant as well, and the last is a nonprofit staffed by volunteers. People have tried to make it, and even with foot traffic and everything else they can't make a single cafe survive on that stretch on its own merits.

Thinking of the non-gallery nights in particular, when one doesn't have a somewhat-guaranteed clientele, I'm just emphasizing that there needs to be a good business model in place, and people need to be aware of what goes into making a successful coffee business and business in general.

Coffee's not so much of a niche market (like authentic Mexican food in the heart of the city!) that people won't just wait till they come upon a boring-but-familiar Tim Hortons instead if it's not welcoming.

It doesn't necessitate anything being watered down, but it does mean things as boring as good lighting and a well-designed entryway are important if someone does hope to open a coffee shop that will thrive on the day-to-day foot traffic in the area.

Adam/sabbatical! -- that is a fantastic idea, and all the best. Keep us updated here!

[thistleclub]

Maybe it seemed that was oversimplifying the business case for coffeehouses. Not my intent at all. I'm aware of the turnover in IV (not just in cafes, but small business in general) and it can be demoralizing. I'm sure that a brand franchise would do decently well, but I guess we'll see how much it takes to put consumers at ease. You'd hope that authenticity is something they'd crave from an urban experience, but everybody has their comfort zone.

Another challenge is City Hall's return to Main West in 2010. True, James and Mulberry is three blocks away from the City Centre offices, but it's a large number of customers who would have figured out that the distance is only slightly farther than the walk to Tims in Jackson Square. (And the urban planning office seems to be the closest, which would be a natural.) Hopefully the Hotel Hamilton project stirs some imaginative investments that will offset that migration.

[jgrwatson]

Coffeeshops in Hamilton is such an oddity. You have Starbucks on Locke, a trial store, turned out to be one of the busiest in Canada. They are planning another 10 or something in the Niagara region. Then you had Main Street/Infusions, etc, that couldn't last. Sadly, Hamilton can't support a local coffeeshop - Hamilton NEEDS a name, like Starbucks, downtown.

There is a demand. There is a demand b/c I live in Gore Park and I walk all the way to Locke to get coffee (and so does everyone I know living in the dt area).

I support local business, but I have a hard time sometimes drinking my coffee in a mall...

Don't you think Starbucks has done its research or even attempted about coffee in Gore Park? Rumour had it there is a Starbucks locating around John and King (maybe McKay?), and the property manager said there has been talks. Would you all support?