Would you move to the US?

[drew]

Pre kids - maybe.

Post kids - no.

I don't really have any explanation for that opinion - but I just wouldn't want to raise any kids in the States.

[le calmar]

I find the idea of living with the average Trump supporter as depicted in the news scary (hostile to anything non-american, xenophobic, clueless about the geopolitics, etc). I am aware that everything is not black or white, but I can't help but think that moving to the Arkansas countryside is a scary idea. I would not have a problem living in a more diverse, larger city though. Or probably anywhere in California or New England.

[J.OT13]

I need my free health care, so no, never.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by le calmar

I find the idea of living with the average Trump supporter as depicted in the news is scary (hostile to anything non-american, xenophobic, clueless about the geopolitics, etc). I am aware that everything is not black or white, but I can't help but think that moving to the Arkansas countryside is a scary idea. I would not have a problem living in a more diverse, larger city though. Or probably anywhere in California or New England.

Am I the only one not bothered by the idea of living next to people who don't necessarily think like me politically?

For instance, I find much of Texas political culture odious with the open carry bullshit, the jingoistic tea party politics and all that, but I'd still live there under the right circumstances. I'm usually pretty good at getting along with people who don't vote the same way I do.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by le calmar

I find the idea of living with the average Trump supporter as depicted in the news is scary (hostile to anything non-american, xenophobic, clueless about the geopolitics, etc). I am aware that everything is not black or white, but I can't help but think that moving to the Arkansas countryside is a scary idea. I would not have a problem living in a more diverse, larger city though. Or probably anywhere in California or New England.

Every time I leave the blue glass building at 200 Belvédère Nord (where the Régie du Logement is) I have dreams of liquidating all I own in this city in order to buy an Arkansas portfolio - the most landlord-friendly place in the entirely of the civilized world, where failure to pay rent will land you in jail after about a week.

[Laceoflight]

It wouldn't be the end of the world, but...
I've always felt a stronger connexion with other countries such as France, Belgium or Switzerland (values, language, cultural references...) I'd even consider the other latin countries (Portugal, Italy, Spain...) before the USA.

The free healthcare program and the low tuitions for post-secondary education reflect important values that I wouldn't give up on easily.

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I need my free health care, so no, never.

Free healthcare does you no good if you have to wait an extremely long time to get surgery. Something I'm witnessing first hand with my parents.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by esquire

Am I the only one not bothered by the idea of living next to people who don't necessarily think like me politically?

For instance, I find much of Texas political culture odious with the open carry bullshit, the jingoistic tea party politics and all that, but I'd still live there under the right circumstances. I'm usually pretty good at getting along with people who don't vote the same way I do.

For me, I don't have a problem with living with people who disagree with me. I don't know anyone who doesn't already.

That said, for better or worse, I've found that the American political culture is more 'in your face' on both the right and the left - people are less shy to tell you what they think. And as a visible minority, I think that I would probably fare worse in more places south of the border than I do here. Unlike a political ideology which you can keep to yourself depending on the context, I can't make myself paler in order to get along.


I'll always remember visiting Chicago at age 15; I was sitting in a café with my siblings and a lady came up and asked nicely if we had seen her purse which had apparently vanished from her chair moments earlier. Assuming she was asking everyone, I just told her I hadn't and expected her to move on to the next table. Instead, she lingered, asking again and again if we had really reeeally not seen her bag. I'd never experienced something like that in Canada and it was only afterwards that I realized that she assumed that we had taken the bag, presumably because we were the only black kids in the upscale café.

Similar things happen in Canada (I'm thinking of Aboriginal people in certain parts of the country, for example), but I find that even when Canadians harbour racism or whatever-ism, we tend to keep it quietly to ourselves a lot more.

[Acajack]

For me, it's mostly a question of before kids and after kids.

Before kids, I could have lived anywhere in the world. The U.S. would have been one of the places where the practical adaptation would have been the easiest.

Of course, there are elements of francophone culture that are generally only available in situ that I like that I would have missed after a while. This latter aspect would also have been true to some degree had I moved to most other areas of Canada, I must say.

As for kids, moving to the U.S. for me means that they will have a very different cultural and national identity. This is primarily but not solely related to language as one might expect.

Of course, in a big American city I could send my kids to one of those "French schools abroad" they have around the world. This would be good for acquiring a functional ability in French but not so good from a cultural and identity perspective - especially for francophone Canadians.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

That said, for better or worse, I've found that the American political culture is more 'in your face' on both the right and the left - people are less shy to tell you what they think. And as a visible minority, I think that I would probably fare worse in more places south of the border than I do here. Unlike a political ideology which you can keep to yourself depending on the context, I can't make myself paler in order to get along.

This is mostly down to Americans having Freedom of Speech and Canadians having Freedom of Expression.

It always kills me when Canadians harp on about freedom of speech rules as if they're the same here. They aren't, at all. It's why we deny some people entry at the border at times.

[CanSpice]

No. I lived in the US for eight years. The healthcare issue alone is enough to keep me from living down there again. I don't want to live in a country where a broken arm costs me thousands of dollars, or anything more serious threatens me with bankruptcy.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

As for kids, moving to the U.S. for me means that they will have a very different cultural and national identity. This is primarily but not solely related to language as one might expect.

Of course, in a big American city I could send my kids to one of those "French schools abroad" they have around the world. This would be good for acquiring a functional ability in French but not so good from a cultural and identity perspective - especially for francophone Canadians.

To what end would one try to keep their kids' identity chained to a place where they no longer live? It usually fades away after a couple of generations anyway. Some cultures tend to stick to the homeland's customs longer (I've heard this said about people with Chinese backgrounds), but eventually people let go of the homeland and embrace where they were born and raised. If I moved to the US, I would have no expectation whatsoever that my young children would grow up caring about the Winnipeg Jets, Burton Cummings and Louis Riel... if I tried to force them to care, it would only be for my benefit and certainly not for theirs.

[Acajack]

I think many Canadians make too much of the "political climate" down in the U.S. More Americans voted for Clinton than Trump in November. If you're a progressive Canadian there are more people living in the U.S. that share your views than there are people of all ages living in Canada.

It's really not that bad even if you bump into a Tea Party-type person from time to time.

A few years ago I was in Washington with my family and at the hotel's daily reception (free booze and hors d'oeuvres) we kind of befriended this lady from Texas who was in town for the right-wing Conservative Political Action Convention. She was Tea Party all the way. She had tons of questions about Canada, and we asked her questions about her "movement". She also hit it off with my kids. Over the course of a week, we met at the end of every day down there for a drink and just chat.

Maybe it would have been different had we been Americans... I dunno.

But for me personally, it wasn't really less pleasant than dealing with fellow Canadians who bring up Bill 101, equalization, separatism, "money and the ethnic vote", ethnocentrism, and racial purity (pure laine) as soon as they learn you're "French" (sic).

It doesn't happen all the time or even frequently, but Canadians can be unpleasant and odious too.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

To what end would one try to keep their kids' identity chained to a place where they no longer live? It usually fades away after a couple of generations anyway. Some cultures tend to stick to the homeland's customs longer (I've heard this said about people with Chinese backgrounds), but eventually people let go of the homeland and embrace where they were born and raised. If I moved to the US, I would have no expectation whatsoever that my young children would grow up caring about the Winnipeg Jets, Burton Cummings and Louis Riel... if I tried to force them to care, it would only be for my benefit and certainly not for theirs.

Oh, I agree. If I were to move to the U.S. permanently I wouldn't want my kids to be "French Canadians Living in the United States". I would want them to have an idea of their roots, but would primarily want and expect them to become full-fledged members of the society that would be, after all, their home.

But that's a choice I would consciously make when I decide to move down there.

[esquire]

^ I find most Americans pleasant on a one-on-one basis. I think a lot of people get their conceptions of the US framed by the news (either on TV or online), where the tone is always adversarial if not outright antagonistic.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Oh, I agree. If I were to move to the U.S. permanently I wouldn't want my kids to be "French Canadians Living in the United States". I would want them to have an idea of their roots, but would primarily want and expect them to become full-fledged members of the society that would be, after all, their home.

But that's a choice I would consciously make when I decide to move down there.

I said my piece as the child of an immigrant (with the other parent being born in Canada to immigrant parents)... my parents did not go out of their way to shield me from the old country stuff, but they didn't really go out of their way to expose me to it either. I picked some up by osmosis which certainly helps form a common understanding with the parents, but I really don't have much inclination to expose my children to that. It won't bother me any that they won't speak the ancestral languages, not least because everyone in the family except for a few members of the over 75 crowd speaks English anyway.

I guess I'm a heartless pragmatist on these issues.

[niwell]

Generally speaking I find it's easier to get into random conversations at the bar in the US than it is here. And I usually don't have an issue getting into them at bars here either, but it takes a few drinks longer on average! People are more likely to insert themselves into your conversation very quickly. I do make a point of avoiding political talk (particularly related to gun control) when I meet people there, but that's a good idea in general.

[SignalHillHiker]

It depends where exactly, really. Boston, sure; Bangor, no. I'd be more than a little concerned with Trump as president, and guns being so common, and healthcare being so expensive.

I'd also likely run into the same problem I've faced in most cities except my own: I'd have to be able to afford to live in the neighbourhood I want. I can't do Mount Pearl or Markham; I can't be out in the suburbs. I'd have to be able to live in Rabbittown, or Cabbagetown, or Back Bay, or wherever. Now, really large cities like NYC, that's less of an issue. I wouldn't mind being a bridge and tunnel person because what's on the far side of those is usually more than urban enough.

And I'd have to be able to afford to return home every summer break and at Christmas.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by niwell

Generally speaking I find it's easier to get into random conversations at the bar in the US than it is here. And I usually don't have an issue getting into them at bars here either, but it takes a few drinks longer on average! People are more likely to insert themselves into your conversation very quickly. I do make a point of avoiding political talk (particularly related to gun control) when I meet people there, but that's a good idea in general.

Exactly. Savvy people figure out pretty quickly which topics are best avoided with strangers.

[esquire]

Everyone says this "Trump as president" is a reason not to move to the US as though he's going to personally grab everyone by the genitals.