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  #61  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2009, 5:20 AM
urban_planner urban_planner is offline
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I think it needs to be 30,000 not 40,000 NHL doesn't even attract that many people and its a far more popular sport. However it needs to be more then 25,000. I honestly think that if we get a new stadium and the cats are playing more fan will show up just to see the stadium and that would attract some new fans. Also some people don't go to games because then don't like Ivro Wyne, whether its the seating itself or the location in the middle of a neighbourhood.

Just a few thougts
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  #62  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2009, 6:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Rottie View Post
The estimated price of Regina's stadium is 350 mil.
I read an article the other day, I think it was on the Sportsnet website and the new estimates range between 400-600 million. Thats the first I had heard of the proposal, so I was just repeating what I read. It would be great if it gets built. Their fans deserve it.
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  #63  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2009, 7:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Gurnett71 View Post
My vision of Hamilton is one where a downtown core is alive and thriving and has seamless access to a waterfront area that all Hamiltonians can enjoy, rather than one marred by a stadium of interest to only a few.
I wouldn't call 30,000 people only a few people. Why can't the waterfront be shared? You talk about the enjoyment of all Hamiltonians, then turn around and deny a significant portion of the population their enjoyment. Isn't it a little selfish to want all of the waterfront?
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  #64  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2009, 7:26 AM
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Originally Posted by urban_planner View Post
I think it needs to be 30,000 not 40,000 NHL doesn't even attract that many people and its a far more popular sport. However it needs to be more then 25,000. I honestly think that if we get a new stadium and the cats are playing more fan will show up just to see the stadium and that would attract some new fans. Also some people don't go to games because then don't like Ivro Wyne, whether its the seating itself or the location in the middle of a neighbourhood.

Just a few thougts
It definitely needs to be 30,000 seats, no smaller. Most teams see a bump in attendance with a new facility. Ivor Wynne is so old that it's not a stretch to imagine a rather permanent bump in attendance. There are always some fickle people who won't show up unless you pamper them.

Hopefully the Bills will move to Los Angeles, and the Tiger-Cats will get an additional bounce.
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  #65  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2009, 7:33 AM
isaidso isaidso is offline
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Just to clear things up, this is the stadium at 15,000 seats for the Pan American Games.



After the games, the Hamilton Tiger-Cats will expand the stadium to 30,000 seats. The plan is for it to look like this. Note the upper deck added to the other side, and seating at the other end zone to create a complete 'bowl'.

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  #66  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2009, 12:02 PM
thistleclub thistleclub is offline
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I realize that this is just an artist's rendering, but if expansion plans involve mirroring half of the seating in a 15,000-seat venue (ie upper deck, endzone crescent), how would that bring you to 30,000 seats? My math at this hour isn't the greatest.
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  #67  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2009, 12:07 PM
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Stadium 'outlived its usefulness'
City on right track erecting new waterfront venue, some fans say

November 11, 2009
Dana Brown
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/670425

Philip Pickles has been attending games at Ivor Wynne Stadium for at least 25 years and he's ready for a change.

Although he's "a little" attached to the east-end stadium, the 39-year-old Hannon resident thinks a new waterfront venue at the old Rheem Canada site is the way to go.

"It's had its time," said Pickles of aging Ivor Wynne. "The stadium's outlived its usefulness."

Pickles would like to see a new venue offering some shelter to shield fans from blustery weather.

And he's not the only one ready to say goodbye to the old stadium.

Several fans at the Ticats' last home game said they supported the city's initiative to move forward on a new stadium, a move given a huge boost when southern Ontario recently won the right to host the 2015 Pan Am Games.

Hamilton is to provide the track stadium and velodrome and a practice pool at McMaster.

"It would be nice to have a new facility," Art Shore said. "Every major city seems to be spending money on a new facility. Why can't we?"

Shore, 72, has been heading to games at the stadium since he was a young man and suggested the site might suit a downsized venue for high school football.

As for losing a local landmark?

"We have a lot of great local landmarks," he said.

The Pan Am win means millions in federal and provincial funding to help construct a new 15,000-seat stadium. For a full-size venue for football, the cost would top $150 million, with the extra money to come from the private sector.

Keeping Ivor Wynne safely operating for the next several years will cost up to $20 million and a proper renovation carries a price tag of around $94 million.

The city has already purchased the former Rheem Canada plant to prepare for building a Pan Am stadium.

Carol Nagy, 44, of Burlington called having a new facility a "fabulous idea."

"I'm not terribly tied to a stadium," she said, noting that things change and modernize.

An educational centre or something that supports business would be good for the Balsam Avenue site, Nagy said.

Dave Howse, 47, said a new waterfront venue would be a great draw for the city and would be more accessible than Ivor Wynne.

He does concede, though, he will miss the legendary venue.

"It's a great old stadium."

Not everyone thinks the project is in the best interests of the city right now.

"I'm thinking that Hamilton could use the money better somewhere else," Eden Pearson said.

Pearson, 40, said with issues such as ongoing flooding, there are other things the city needs to take care of first.


A look back at Ivor Wynne Stadium:

Source: Hamilton Tiger-Cats

Originally called the Civic Stadium, Ivor Wynne opened its doors to the public for the first time in 1930.

The venue was initially constructed to hold the British Empire Games, the first major athletic event Canada hosted. With only about 2,000 seats, the stadium got a revamp after the Hamilton Tiger-Cats became permanent tenants at the venue in 1950.

Capacity was boosted with about 15,000 new seats and construction was completed in 1959.

In 1970, Civic Stadium, which was showing its age, was renamed in honour of Ivor Wynne, the McMaster University athlete, athletic director and first dean of students. The city ultimately shelled out $2 million for stadium renovations, bringing seating in the venue up to about 30,000, the largest venue in the Canadian Football League.

Hundreds of thousands of dollars have been poured into subsequent renovations over the years, including a new scoreboard and sound system, a new drainage revamp, new sewer connections and sky boxes for the 1996 Grey Cup which cost $1.2 million.
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  #68  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2009, 1:05 PM
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Just because the Ti Cats didn't average many fans over the past years (when they barely ever won a game) doesn't mean they might not attract 30,000 or more fans in the future, with a better stadium and a better team on the field. It's pretty silly to say, oh we've only been getting 20,000, so let's build a stadium to fit exactly that many. If I were the owner of a professional team I would try to increase attendance, not strive for the status quo.
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  #69  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2009, 2:02 PM
thistleclub thistleclub is offline
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Originally Posted by flar View Post
Just because the Ti Cats didn't average many fans over the past years (when they barely ever won a game) doesn't mean they might not attract 30,000 or more fans in the future, with a better stadium and a better team on the field. It's pretty silly to say, oh we've only been getting 20,000, so let's build a stadium to fit exactly that many. If I were the owner of a professional team I would try to increase attendance, not strive for the status quo.
True. At the end of the team's golden age, they were pulling 31,000 average -- and at the time, even the Grey Cup games were only pulling a few thousand more than that. But there have been a few seasons since then that they have rallied fewer than 15,000 a game. This is a team, lest we forget, that was bankrupt in 2003 and almost had its franchise yanked by the league a decade earlier. I agree that a larger facility potentially changes the dynamic, but it's an investment that the club needs to sort out, not taxpayers.

As far as a $200+ million arena, the additional investment would almost certainly have to be mostly private sector-based. If the team owners (and their local business afiliates) don't believe that much in the future of the franchise, why should the city? Take the Cats out of the picture and consider how many working and ideally profitable days a 40,000-seat open air venue would see in this city. Remember as well that taxpayers are already on the hook for dark days at Copps. And that, thanks to the Coyotes kerfuffle, the Bulldogs -- the venue's principal tenants -- are once again looking for an exit.

The idea that a Grey Cup win is a game changer as far as attendance goes is not as bankable as you'd think, either. In the 30-year sample that produced an average regular season home game attendance of 20,200, the team went to the Grey Cup seven times (1980, 1984-1986, 1989, 1998 and 1999) bringing it home twice -- in 1986 and 1999. In the 20-year period that produced and profited from those showings (1980-2000), average regular season home game attendance was just over 19,000.

Attendance bump from those Grey Cup wins?

1986 - 17,287
1987 - 16,999

1999 - 20,051
2000 - 20,057

As I said earlier, with this team anything is possible.
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  #70  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2009, 2:20 PM
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30,000 seats is fine, it should be the minimum. If needed you could add temporary seats to expand 40,000 seats. During Grey Cup perhaps have the ability to increase it to 50,000 seats.

If you have a stadium that's 40,000 you are increasing the break-even point and the city could lose money each year. With 30,000 the break-even point should be zero.
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  #71  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2009, 2:38 PM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
I wouldn't call 30,000 people only a few people. Why can't the waterfront be shared? You talk about the enjoyment of all Hamiltonians, then turn around and deny a significant portion of the population their enjoyment. Isn't it a little selfish to want all of the waterfront?
Just to clarify: please note that the portion of my post that you quote above is actually a letter to the Spec. http://thespec.com/Opinions/Letterto...article/669179

For the record, I am for the waterfront location for the new stadium.
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  #72  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2009, 2:45 PM
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I think everybody is generally on board with a waterfront stadium at SSP Local: Hamilton.
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  #73  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2009, 3:05 PM
Gurnett71 Gurnett71 is offline
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I think everybody is generally on board with a waterfront stadium at SSP Local: Hamilton.
Yeah, I think the location of the stadium really isn't that much of a debate here on SSP but it seems that there is still a lot of uncertainty in the general public.

I guess we can continue to argue the relative size of the stadium here...
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  #74  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2009, 3:12 PM
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We'll get more concrete information in February when Tourism Hamilton presents the business plan for the stadium to council. At that time we'll start to hear about private donation towards the stadium. The bunsiness plan will also require council to make the final decision on the stadium and velodrome location.

I think we're going to have a 30,000 stadium and not 15,000 during the 2015 Pan Am Games. It’ll be much cheaper to build a 30,000 at once than coming back to add more seats from a 15,000 seat stadium.
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  #75  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2009, 4:59 PM
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I am not a fan of the idea of expanding a stadium over time simply because any stadium built that way seems to be on the cheap side and tends to look amateurish or lopsided.

It would be nice if a substantial, symmetric structure with 30K - 35K permanent seats were built.
I agree. make a nice stadium. Do it right in the first place. If it's worth doing then its worth doing properly.
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  #76  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2009, 5:05 PM
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Originally Posted by flar View Post
Just because the Ti Cats didn't average many fans over the past years (when they barely ever won a game) doesn't mean they might not attract 30,000 or more fans in the future, with a better stadium and a better team on the field. It's pretty silly to say, oh we've only been getting 20,000, so let's build a stadium to fit exactly that many. If I were the owner of a professional team I would try to increase attendance, not strive for the status quo.
Exactly. a new stadium would easily attract more ticket sales.... plus sustain them with a stadium that is far more comfortable and offers a better location and amenities.
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  #77  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2009, 5:17 PM
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I can't wait for the day to sit on an actual chair with a cup holder for my drink. Enough with the bench! A day after going to Ivor Wynne my back is totally screwed up.
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  #78  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2009, 5:30 PM
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to further support a 30,000 stadium. Won't there be other uses? like concerts. what else could this stadium be used for?
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  #79  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2009, 5:37 PM
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Training for track and field, a field for people to run in circles. Over the wintertime they'll put a bubble over the field to keep it open all year around. Basically a North End recreational centre. And yes to concerts as well.

Plus don't forget it'll be the future home of a new USL soccer team in Hamilton, Bob Young would like a USL team in Hamilton. He's co-owner of a USL team in the states.
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  #80  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2009, 10:41 PM
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I can't wait for the day to sit on an actual chair with a cup holder for my drink. Enough with the bench! A day after going to Ivor Wynne my back is totally screwed up.
I couldn't agree more with this. I have only gone to a few Ti-Cat games but the seating and atmosphere was my biggest complaint. Almost no shelter from the wind or extreme temperature and good god, benches? Definitely hard to sit through an entire football game in those things unless you bring/buy some booze to help you not notice. Call me a pampered Toronto boy but when I go to a sporting event I'd like to be comfortable.
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