Amazon HQ2 thread

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by Capsule F

Yea you do, but it still won't happen.

pfft I have absolutely ZERO interest in accomodating 50,000 millenial newbies while even more middle class and poor minorities, immigrants, young families and seniors are forced out. No señor.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

Walmart is certainly not a tech company in the sense that Apple, Google, or Facebook are, but they do employ people with those skills to manage/develop websites, apps, self check out, etc. I have friends who work as programmers for insurance companies. Hardly the sexiest gig, but it pays well and is certainly less competitive/stressful than Apple, Google, and Facebook.

So few STEM grads go on to work for companies like Facebook, Apple, and Google. These are the sexy tech jobs. Most STEM grads who end up working as programming professionals are going to be employed by less "sexy" employers who require these skills, albeit for less glamorous purposes.

1,000x this. I think people think the only companies that deal with "tech" are the names that are associated with "tech" like Google or Microsoft rather than just about every company or organization on the planet that has an IT department.

As for Amazon, they need to find a away to stop hemorrhaging money from their retail end and if it were not for AWS, they would be losing money quarter after quarter. Their stock continues to jump because of their continued market dominance, not performance beyond their cloud services.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

Walmart is certainly not a tech company in the sense that Apple, Google, or Facebook are, but they do employ people with those skills to manage/develop websites, apps, self check out, etc. I have friends who work as programmers for insurance companies. Hardly the sexiest gig, but it pays well and is certainly less competitive/stressful than Apple, Google, and Facebook.

So few STEM grads go on to work for companies like Facebook, Apple, and Google. These are the sexy tech jobs. Most STEM grads who end up working as programming professionals are going to be employed by less "sexy" employers who require these skills, albeit for less glamorous purposes.

As has been stated, the startup culture in Chicago and other non coastal metros is certainly improving. I think it's unlikely that another Facebook or Google crops up in SV given the insane costs, but it could still happen. It's unlikely Amazon cares about the location of Google, Facebook, etc. If anything, it's probably better to be further away from them. These are companies that can certainly poach Amazon's best. It's a lot easier to say no to a job that requires you to move 1,500+ miles. Not so much when you can keep your apartment, friends, etc.

I agree. Tech companies are not limited to Facebook or Google. But just because a company has an IT department does not make it a tech company. I was merely using an example to show the peculiar lengths someone is willing to go to perpetuate misguided views that industry standard terminology is offensive.

Also, you're right about Amazon not wanting to set up a second shop in the Bay Area. I know they've tried to poach local Facebook, Google, and Salesforce workers, but have been unsuccessful. The top talent here have the luxury of being very selective with who they choose to work for.

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Also, you're right about Amazon not wanting to set up a second shop in the Bay Area. I know they've tried to poach local Facebook, Google, and Salesforce workers, but have been unsuccessful. The top talent here have the luxury of being very selective with who they choose to work for.

I've frequently heard from friends who went to school at Waterloo and moved to Silicon Valley that Amazon is one of the least desirable of the "big name" tech employers. Brutal hours that at some points require you to essentially be on-call, available at a moments notice for over two weeks without the pay the match. Maybe that's changing as they finally hit (probably) perpetual profitability.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

I've frequently heard from friends who went to school at Waterloo and moved to Silicon Valley that Amazon is one of the least desirable of the "big name" tech employers. Brutal hours that at some points require you to essentially be on-call, available at a moments notice for over two weeks without the pay the match. Maybe that's changing as they finally hit (probably) perpetual profitability.

Exactly. There is little incentive for employees at other top tech companies to switch to Amazon. The culture at the other companies is much better. And especially with Google expanding to downtown San Jose with a 6-8 million sq ft campus for 15k-20k employees, Amazon would have a tough time acquiring and poaching enough talent to support a second HQ. They want to stand out and be the top dog somewhere else, not blend in, which is why they are looking elsewhere.

[Shawn]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

I've frequently heard from friends who went to school at Waterloo and moved to Silicon Valley that Amazon is one of the least desirable of the "big name" tech employers. Brutal hours that at some points require you to essentially be on-call, available at a moments notice for over two weeks without the pay the match. Maybe that's changing as they finally hit (probably) perpetual profitability.

I will so no more than this: Amazon is the E&Y of the tech world - you put in three solid years after you graduate, sort of an extended part of your education, and then get the hell away as fast as humanly possible. Interviewers will see you survived 3 years of Amazon on your CV and you'll practically have your pick of positions.

[Shawn]

Re: Tech vs. IT: you can be a tech worker and not work for an IT company, and you can work for an IT company and not be a tech worker.

Most of the pure tech companies I work with are digital ad infrastructure companies. DSPs like The Trade Desk and AppNexus, SSPs like Pubmatic, ad safety and verification companies like Integral Ad Science and Moat . . . none of these companies offer "online products" in a B2C sense. This isn't Pets.com or "hey, let's do what other stores do, but do it - wait for it - online!". To do the type of work these people do, you need to know how to code in multiple languages, you need to be on the cutting edge of machine learning, you need to have an advanced understanding of the application of complex statistical models to real-world client data (all STEM knowledge), and you need to thoroughly understand marketing, communications, and media planning (all liberal arts knowledge). There are no university programs in the world set up to mint these types of people. The only way you become an ad tech specialist is through very specific work experience. The pool of people who qualify for this is minuscule, globally. I am perfectly comfortable using "talent" to describe these type of employees.

And to my first point: I would guess that out of the 50,000 positions Amazon is looking to eventually fill, not a lot of these will be pure tech positions. A sizable amount will be in Account Servicing, Media Rep, Publisher Relations, Yield Management, Agency Relations, and Vendor Relations. These are people with marketing comms and advertising degrees, not STEM graduates.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by homebucket

Regarding your list, raw numbers favor places with higher population. Also, my source is CBRE, which you also source.

Whether Chicago is 5th on your list or 15th on mine really does not matter to me. The primary purpose of my post was to address another poster's irrational disdain for the term "tech" and/or "talent".

Raw numbers do favor higher populations, but percentage changes are decidedly more difficult for higher populations to achieve. So if the 5th largest tech community by raw numbers is showing the third highest percentage growth, that's actually far more impressive than a much smaller city showing the third highest percentage growth. It's easy to show 33% growth when you are going from 3 workers to 4 workers. It's very hard to show 33% growth when you are going from 150K workers to 200k workers. You need to add 1 worker to achieve the former, you need to add 50,000 to achieve the latter.

[skyscraperpage17]

Yet another list. It seems reasonable to me.

https://www.inc.com/zoe-henry/6-citi...dquarters.html

...National weekly business magazine Inc. reported that it gathered data from a number of sources to build a Top 6 list of contenders for the future $5 billion site. The sources included betting sites, shipping experts, investors, and people familiar with Amazon, for a ranking that was "(more or less) in order of likelihood.," Inc wrote.

Atlanta sat atop the list, followed by Chicago, Austin, Philadelphia, Boston and Washington D.C...

[10023]

Originally Posted by dimondpark

pfft I have absolutely ZERO interest in accomodating 50,000 millenial newbies while even more middle class and poor minorities, immigrants, young families and seniors are forced out. No señor.

You don't want millennials but you want young families? Have I got some news for you...

[10023]

Originally Posted by skyscraperpage17

Yet another list. It seems reasonable to me.

https://www.inc.com/zoe-henry/6-citi...dquarters.html

This is actually a pretty good shortlist, IMO, but obviously none of us have a damn clue what order it should be in. Would add Denver and Nashville as the next two out, though latter may be too small.

[dimondpark]

Originally Posted by 10023

You don't want millennials but you want young families? Have I got some news for you...

Haha

I dont want the only millenials here to be single, white, affluent techie/hipster transplants.

Dont get me wrong, they are more than welcome, but far too many other millenials are being priced out.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by 10023

This is actually a pretty good shortlist, IMO, but obviously none of us have a damn clue what order it should be in. Would add Denver and Nashville as the next two out, though latter may be too small.

Nashville's metro isn't that much smaller than Austin's metro. I'd also throw Dallas, Charlotte, and Raleigh onto your "next out" list.

[themaguffin]

This thread is a great example of how echo chambers works - a lot of lists pushed of which - none - zero have any true insight, only speculation...

and coupled with too many chamber of commerce ads.

Still, nearly 80 pages on. Still.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by 10023

This is actually a pretty good shortlist, IMO, but obviously none of us have a damn clue what order it should be in. Would add Denver and Nashville as the next two out, though latter may be too small.

Denver isn't a realistic option if they are actually trying to avoid what is happening to them in Seattle. Exact same situation in Denver but worse. The entire city of Denver is Millennials now and they've systematically sought out and eliminated any and all pockets of affordable housing in that city. Denver has room to grow unlike Seattle or SF, but it's too hot, particularly for it's size, to absorb the kinds of numbers Amazon is talking about. It would be another case of out of the frying pan into the fire for Amazon.

This is going to end up in some big boned city with a decent tech scene and room for Amazon to grow without choking itself off again. That means a large post industrial city like Philly or Chicago, or a roomy Sunbelt city that isn't already overrun with millennials like Atlanta or Dallas.

[skyscraperpage17]

I don't get the hate (for the lack of a better term) being expressed over millennials. It defies logic.

For one, it would be in any company's best interest to locate to a city that is "overrun with millennials" if they want a sufficiently large enough labor pool to replace the baby boomers will be retiring en mass over the next 5-10 years.

Second, someone's going to have to be around pay for and use all of the infrastructure that was overbuilt (via urban sprawl) and the pension funds once the baby boomers are no longer contributing to the government's coffers in retirement. That means having plenty of people who are still in their prime working and baby-making years (I.E. millennials).

[skyscraperpage17]

Originally Posted by 10023

This is actually a pretty good shortlist, IMO, but obviously none of us have a damn clue what order it should be in. Would add Denver and Nashville as the next two out, though latter may be too small.

While Nashville on paper is smaller in comparison, it is quickly narrowing the gap. Nashville's rate of growth right now is very similar to what Atlanta experienced when it started to take off back in the 1970s.

And actually, Nashville has better highway and airport infrastructure than Austin. Not to mention, it's in a more central location than Austin. So in many ways (except access to talent), it would be a somewhat better candidate for HQ2 than Austin.

[cannedairspray]

All the talk of tech vs IT and "sexy" jobs seems to miss one component that is a decided advantage for the DC/Baltimore area when considering the potential HQ2: cyber-security.

Whether you consider it to be part of tech or just IT or its own thing, between NSA, the military, and all of the associated contractors, there's tens of thousands of people with IT/Tech skills in between DC and Baltimore. NSA is probably Maryland's second largest employer just by itself, not counting the other groups that technically has their paychecks signed by someone else but ultimately flows from the Agency. Northrop, Raytheon, L-3, etc. And of course not counting the cyber elements of DIA/CIA/FBI/State that aren't in Maryland but very much in the DC area.

There's sexy jobs and then there's sexy jobs that have TV shows and movies about them. Other than "Silicon Valley" and "Jobs", of course.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by cannedairspray

All the talk of tech vs IT and "sexy" jobs seems to miss one component that is a decided advantage for the DC/Baltimore area when considering the potential HQ2: cyber-security.

Whether you consider it to be part of tech or just IT or its own thing, between NSA, the military, and all of the associated contractors, there's tens of thousands of people with IT/Tech skills in between DC and Baltimore. NSA is probably Maryland's second largest employer just by itself, not counting the other groups that technically has their paychecks signed by someone else but ultimately flows from the Agency. Northrop, Raytheon, L-3, etc. And of course not counting the cyber elements of DIA/CIA/FBI/State that aren't in Maryland but very much in the DC area.

There's sexy jobs and then there's sexy jobs that have TV shows and movies about them. Other than "Silicon Valley" and "Jobs", of course.

I would say working as a military, defense, or NSA contractor qualifies as a sexy tech job. Those jobs go to the best and the brightest. The guy who's applying to work as a contractor with the NSA is likely not the same guy applying to write the script for Allstate's website...

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by 10023

This is actually a pretty good shortlist, IMO, but obviously none of us have a damn clue what order it should be in. Would add Denver and Nashville as the next two out, though latter may be too small.

I question any list that does not include at least one Canadian city as a top contender.