Florida's newest commuter rail Sunrail gets state Senate approval

[atlantaguy]

I honestly believe SunRail is going to be huge for Central Florida.

It's opening just in time too, since the massive reconstruction of I-4 through the core of the metro gets underway next year.

[Prahaboheme]

Originally Posted by Prahaboheme

Winter Park Station:


Winter Park Station and Track Construction by Ride SunRail, on Flickr


Winter Park Station Platform Brickwork by Ride SunRail, on Flickr


Winter Park Station Canopy by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Florida Hospital Station:


Florida Hospital Station Canopy and Platform Construction by Ride SunRail, on Flickr


Amtrak Passing Through Florida Hospital Station by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Sand Lake Road Station:


Sand Lake Road Station Platform by Ride SunRail, on Flickr


Sand Lake Road Station Platform by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Orlando Amtrak / ORMC Station:


Orlando Amtrak/Orlando Health Station Platforms by Ride SunRail, on Flickr


Orlando Amtrak/Orlando Health Station Canopies by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Lynx Central Station:


LYNX Central Station Platforms by Ride SunRail, on Flickr


LYNX Central Station Platforms by Ride SunRail, on Flickr


LYNX Central Station Platforms by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Maitland Station:


Maitland Station by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Altamonte Springs Station:


Altamonte Springs Station Platform by Ride SunRail, on Flickr


Altamonte Springs Station Platform by Ride SunRail, on Flickr


Altamonte Springs Station Bus Shelter by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Longwood Station:


Longwood Station Canopy Support by Ride SunRail, on Flickr


Longwood Station Platform by Ride SunRail, on Flickr


Longwood Station Platforms by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Lake Mary Station:


Lake Mary Station Platforms by Ride SunRail, on Flickr


Lake Mary Station by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

Sanford Station:


Sanford Station Pedestrian Crossing by Ride SunRail, on Flickr


Sanford Station Art in Transit by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

DeBary Station:


DeBary Station and Parking Lot by Ride SunRail, on Flickr


DeBary Platform Passenger Announcement Panel by Ride SunRail, on Flickr

These are the Phase I stations. Phase II has begun preliminary construction and will open a year after Phase I (which begins daily operation in April 2014). This is definitely a milestone in Orlando / Central Florida history! What is also very important about this commuter line is that it runs through the heart of Central Florida communities, where people actually live, interact, and where sustainable development can easily be integrated into the landscape.

atlantaguy, I think you are right -- this will have a huge impact on the region.

[Jasonhouse]

That's a shame that they couldn't afford more roofing on these stations. The more shade and rain protection, the better in Florida.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by Jasonhouse

That's a shame that they couldn't afford more roofing on these stations. The more shade and rain protection, the better in Florida.

I believe there's plenty of cover for the number of passengers that will be waiting to board the trains at these stations. Not every station along the corridor needs to be Grand Central. If you want more, I suggest carrying an umbrella when the weather looks bad. What I see missing isn't what's overhead, it's wind screens.

[Prahaboheme]

FDOT and the Feds chipped in for the basic train station "template" for each SunRail stop. The most basic you'll see in these pictures is Maitland Station, which is really a park n ride with the station landing and canopy cover.

The majority of these stations have had some sort of boost from the local city / entity where it will reside. For instance, the Longwood Station will be incorporated into a mixed-use development (designed to look a bit like Forest Hills Queens) and you'll notice that the canopy cover is more elaborate.

The Winter Park Station will feature a new train station building and larger pavilion -- the city fronted the cost for this.

Kissimmee (part of Phase II) will also have a much more integrated station as it will be incorporated into an Intermodal Center (Amtrak, SunRail, Lynx, Greyhound, and downtown circulator).

The Orlando Central Station (Lynx) will have direct connection to the Lynx Terminal as well as the Central Station development which will feature retail (hopefully a CVS or Walgreens which is desperately needed at this location).

[mrnyc]

wow this is great to see, i could not be more impressed with a place like greater orlando getting its act together for new rail transit. i'm thinking of so many other places that struggle with doing this, it should give inspiration -- if it can happen there, it can happen anywhere.

[Lakelander]

^Yes, many in Tampa and Jacksonville are closely following what's taking place in Orlando. The immediate success or failure of Sunrail and AAF will have a significant impact on the expansion of fixed transit throughout the rest of Florida.

[Eightball]

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

I honestly believe SunRail is going to be huge for Central Florida.

It's opening just in time too, since the massive reconstruction of I-4 through the core of the metro gets underway next year.

I hope you are right. We shall see. Oftentimes these commuter rail projects have pretty low ridership, especially in places (like Florida) with low transit mode share.

Gotta start somewhere though, and hopefully there can be some synergy between this and AAF.

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by Eightball

I hope you are right. We shall see. Oftentimes these commuter rail projects have pretty low ridership, especially in places (like Florida) with low transit mode share.

Gotta start somewhere though, and hopefully there can be some synergy between this and AAF.

I hope I'm right too, and I think I am. Despite the low transit mode share, this is breaking new ground.

Excluding the attractions zone on the SW side of the Metro, Orlando is very linear. This route connects all of the traditional suburbs to the City in a North/South axis right through the core of the Metro. Almost all of the white collar employment centers that have nothing to do with the attractions area are along this line. It also roughly parallels the I-4 Corridor for most of its length, which functions as the 'Main Street' of Central Florida. I-4 will be undergoing a massive, multi billion $$$ reconstruction starting next year that will take several years. As I mentioned above, the timing is perfect.

This is a definite game changer. The connectivity to AAF will come eventually, but really has no bearing on the initial success of SunRail. This is designed for local commuters. I predict the ridership will exceed TriRail in South Florida within a few years of operation, if not sooner.

[simms3_redux]

Originally Posted by Eightball

I hope you are right. We shall see. Oftentimes these commuter rail projects have pretty low ridership, especially in places (like Florida) with low transit mode share.

Gotta start somewhere though, and hopefully there can be some synergy between this and AAF.

Agreed. As someone from FL with a bit of hometown pride left, I want to see Sunrail succeed and be copied in Tampa and Jax, but I'm not holding my breath. Not sure what ridership expectations are, but along the even more congested 95 in one of the top 5 most densely populated urban corridors in the US I would say that ridership on the Tri-Rail between WPB and Miami is dismal and that the system is essentially a waste of money...15,000 riders along 72 miles? Direct connections to 3 major airports and several major employment centers, as well as direct connections/transfers to Metrorail? And then Metrorail - a system developed around the same time as BART and MARTA, in one of the most densely populated areas in the country, directly connecting several huge employment centers, three more modes of public transit including the FREE people mover downtown and Tri-Rail, and finally connecting several huge hospitals AND the airport, and yet not only has one of the lowest ridership numbers in the country, it has one of the lowest riders/mile in the country.

Caltrain and Tri-Rail were completed in the same year and traverse similar lengths across similarly dense and narrow urbanized areas. The former has 3x the ridership and ridership/mile than the latter. Having spent mucho tiempo in Miami and ridden Tri-Rail several times, it's not necessarily that Miami isn't dense enough or hasn't connected the system well or hasn't done TOD to the extent it should - it's a complete car culture in SoFla and all over FL and that's the only way to explain it.

Good luck to Sunrail. Unfortunately while I-4 is congested as hell (and about to get worse with more construction), DT Orlando and areas around stations aren't even the major employment centers. Lots of people who work in DT Orlando already live there. Otherwise you're working in a suburban office park north of the city or in the service industry south of the city, and there is no easy way for rail to really connect either employment center to dense residential areas where residents can walk to the train and then walk from train to office. Plus there's the whole "Orlando from April through October" thing where you're out of your mind if you want to walk around outside and you aren't at Disney or Universal or a pool.

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

Good luck to Sunrail. Unfortunately while I-4 is congested as hell (and about to get worse with more construction), DT Orlando and areas around stations aren't even the major employment centers. Lots of people who work in DT Orlando already live there. Otherwise you're working in a suburban office park north of the city or in the service industry south of the city, and there is no easy way for rail to really connect either employment center to dense residential areas where residents can walk to the train and then walk from train to office. Plus there's the whole "Orlando from April through October" thing where you're out of your mind if you want to walk around outside and you aren't at Disney or Universal or a pool.

You're wrong about several points. The major non-attraction jobs in the Metro ARE near SunRail. Maitland Center is not next door within walking distance, but there will be shuttles. The same thing goes for Lake Mary. There are thousands of jobs within walking distance at the Florida Hospital Station, the two Downtown Stations and around the Amtrak/ORMC station.

You should probably stick to what you know about Florida, which is Jacksonville.

[simms3_redux]

^^^I'm well acquainted with both Maitland Center (one of my best friends lived off of Maitland Blvd) and Lake Mary (which I passed every time I came to Orlando from JAx...and you know I'm from Jacksonville how?), and I'm saying as pro transit as I am, I wouldn't go through the effort of coordinating shuttles or spending more than 30 seconds outside in my suit or what have you as I wait for a train or walk to and fro station, in FL. I wouldn't in my own hometown either!

If Tri-Rail can't get more than 15,000 daily riders in flipping South Florida, one of the most densely populated urban corridors in America, then I sure as hell don't see how SunRail is going to top that. Not to mention Tri-Rail connects to 2-3 major airports, heavy rail, people mover, etc etc etc.

Also, never said that non-attraction jobs weren't "near" Sunrail (read maybe?). What I did say, which I do believe is mega-complimentary for Orlandoans (are you even from there? Your SN says otherwise AND why are you stalking me, btw? I'm not flattered), is that many people who work downtown ALREADY basically live downtown. DT Orlando is probably even further ahead than Miami in many aspects...it's got one of the highest live-work quotients in the country. That eliminates a ton of SunRail ridership right there because people already live where they work!

I only think SunRail will work if over time metro Orlando properly integrates TOD, and policy-wise works to "mold" a less autocentric mentality amongst citizens and voters. Simply laying the rail and running the cars isn't going to make the system an automatic success, but I would think I'm preaching to the choir here (less a few apparently). I would also hope that they find a way to make it at least tolerable for workers in suits or heavy construction clothing or what have you because no rational person wants to sweat in their work clothes, especially suits/business shirts, before work. Might as well ride your bike and then shower at your building/office gym IF the option is there because you're going to sweat as much simply standing and waiting.

[Eightball]

1) Sun rail is only on the weekdays right now, right? That's a bad sign.

2) A huge interstate expansion near a transit project is almost always a hugely negative thing. Takes away a lot of the rationale for the transit, especially in a place like Florida.

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by Eightball

1) Sun rail is only on the weekdays right now, right? That's a bad sign.

Yes, it just only weekdays, but no service on weekends. I think they should have more service on weekends & holidays.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Is it Rush hour service only? , that would be a terrible idea...

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

^^^I'm well acquainted with both Maitland Center (one of my best friends lived off of Maitland Blvd) and Lake Mary (which I passed every time I came to Orlando from JAx...and you know I'm from Jacksonville how?)

How could I or anyone that's been here for more than a few years NOT know you are from Jacksonville? You've made multiple posts and references to it.

Also, never said that non-attraction jobs weren't "near" Sunrail (read maybe?). What I did say, which I do believe is mega-complimentary for Orlandoans (are you even from there? Your SN says otherwise AND why are you stalking me, btw? I'm not flattered), is that many people who work downtown ALREADY basically live downtown.

If it's any of your business, I used to live there and still have friends and family there. I wasn't aware that it was required to list all of your former locations in your signature here?

And LMFAO as far as stalking you, seems to me you have that backwards sporto. You respond to every thread I post in, just as you have done here. Just who is stalking who?

Basically what you and a few others are saying is why even attempt this. That is backwards and negative thinking in my view. I still predict this will be a big success and a game changer for Central Florida.

[Eightball]

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

Basically what you and a few others are saying is why even attempt this. That is backwards and negative thinking in my view. I still predict this will be a big success and a game changer for Central Florida.

Not sure if this is somewhat directed to me, but there is nothing wrong with being realistic. The new similar commuter rail in Austin has quite low ridership, also (although it has improved some). I agree with you about taking a long term view. These stops are going to need significantly improved local transit, though.

And I am really curious how you think a huge increase in nearby interstate capacity helps competing nearby transit

Originally Posted by N830MH

Yes, it just only weekdays, but no service on weekends. I think they should have more service on weekends & holidays.

That's sad, hopefully they change in to 7 days a week (on decent headways!) within a year or two. Any plans to do so?

[electricron]

Originally Posted by Eightball

Not sure if this is somewhat directed to me, but there is nothing wrong with being realistic. The new similar commuter rail in Austin has quite low ridership, also (although it has improved some). I agree with you about taking a long term view. These stops are going to need significantly improved local transit, though.

And I am really curious how you think a huge increase in nearby interstate capacity helps competing nearby transit

That's sad, hopefully they change in to 7 days a week (on decent headways!) within a year or two. Any plans to do so?

You're comparing apples to oranges when comparing CapMetroRail to anything else. The only destination station it visits is downtown Austin. SunRail will be visiting many destinations along its route, from hospitals to shopping centers and downtown Orlando. There will be a synergy when more transit lines are built and the rail arrives at more destinations.

DART's busiest light rail lines run parallel to freeways. Charlotte's and Norfolk's sole light rail lines are also next to freeways. As long as there are sufficient riders and destinations to attract riders, I don't think it matters how much other transportation facilities are nearby. Price and connivence are important too.

It seems most projections for transit riders on new lines are usually short that what actually rides it. New light rail systems seem to fair better than commuter rail at attracting passengers - but the accuracy of the projections are about the same.

[lrt's friend]

Tri-Rail's ridership is being limited by two things, the fact that the line ends at the airport instead of downtown, and the lack of train frequency. The fact that they recommend arrival at the station 20 minutes in advance of departure reflects the poor service frequency. If service was quite frequent, say at least every 15 minutes, you could arrive even 1 minute before departure knowing that you won't have to wait too long for the next train if you happen to miss it.

Given the proposed 30 minute frequency during peak periods, and two hour frequency during off-peak hours, how can substantial ridership for Sunrail be expected?

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by Eightball

And I am really curious how you think a huge increase in nearby interstate capacity helps competing nearby transit

What in the world made you come to this conclusion?

I mentioned the upcoming reconstruction of I-4 meaning that SunRail is opening just in time to provide an alternative.

I don't know how familiar you are with Central Florida, but I-4 is the absolute spine of the region. And it is a disaster, but it is also where most of the development is clustered. The SunRail line roughly parallels I-4, slightly to the east - which is a very good thing, as it goes through the hearts of the various suburbs clustered to the north of the City.

SunRail will provide a very attractive alternative to the even greater nightmare that I-4 is certain to be over the next few years while it is being totally rebuilt, and will also be a huge catalyst for true TOD around the various stations. The planning is already underway. By the time the I-4 project is completed in several years, SunRail should be established enough to provide a true, permanent alternative option to commuters.

Some of you may not realize it, but TriRail in SE Florida was intended as a temporary alternative solution during the massive rebuilding of I-95. SunRail is much more than that.