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View Poll Results: Should Portage and Main be open for pedestrian traffic?
Yes 113 92.62%
No 9 7.38%
Voters: 122. You may not vote on this poll

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  #821  
Old Posted Nov 10, 2018, 5:50 AM
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I dont see Winnipeg being much like Toronto for the foreseeable future. Also keep in mind that the amount of people commuting downtown will obviously increase but as those numbers rise and the number of residents does likewise, Winnipeg will be forced at some point to build proper reliable transit. Its gonna have to be hub and spoke. So that sort of increase in commuters won't (hopefully) directly translate into cars on the road. Traffic issues keep being brought up but no one seems to notice that we seriously need to improve mass rapid transit access to and within the core. That would definitely help alleviate some of the traffic woes that seem to have some on the closed team so worked up.
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  #822  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2018, 3:55 AM
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On a related note, Calgarians today voted "NO" by a 65% margin, not to host the Olympics in 2026. I'm becoming convinced that people are going to vote "no" on anything that is placed on a referendum. The disappointing thing is that when all was said and done, most experts agree that Vancouver 2010 was a resounding success, giving the area money for infrastructure, public housing, and a Skytrain line to Richmond.

City Council should have just made a decision and stuck to it. Imagine if Duff Roblin left the people to decide if the Floodway should be constructed or not. Winnipeg would have been underwater at least three times in the last 50 years.
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  #823  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2018, 4:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Jets4Life View Post
On a related note, Calgarians today voted "NO" by a 65% margin, not to host the Olympics in 2026. I'm becoming convinced that people are going to vote "no" on anything that is placed on a referendum. The disappointing thing is that when all was said and done, most experts agree that Vancouver 2010 was a resounding success, giving the area money for infrastructure, public housing, and a Skytrain line to Richmond.

City Council should have just made a decision and stuck to it. Imagine if Duff Roblin left the people to decide if the Floodway should be constructed or not. Winnipeg would have been underwater at least three times in the last 50 years.
What was the voter turnout rate like? I cant find any news reports stating the no side one, right at this very minute.
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  #824  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2018, 5:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Pinus View Post
What was the voter turnout rate like? I cant find any news reports stating the no side one, right at this very minute.
According to my source there was a large turnout. Currently it is 56% NO 44% YES.
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  #825  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2018, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
I would like to see results of the ballot question by ward but I can't seem to find them. Anyone able to locate them?

In particular, was the Yes vote significantly stronger in the six inner city wards and especially in Daniel MacIntyre and Pt. Douglas (which between them house the entire downtown population)? I don't think the arguments the Yes side made were clear or tangible enough to persuade suburban voters. Strength in the inner city though would mean it's worthwhile to keep the issue alive and see if there's any desire for a reconsideration in 2022.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...main-1.4877508

The black lines represent wards.

Much more detailed by-polling-area map available here: https://wfpdata.s3.amazonaws.com/181...yVOIc_y_-oX9Ig

As far as your comments on Yes arguments not being as good - maybe, but it's hard. It's so easy to oppose things, especially easily-understood things like more money or time spent. How do you explain the importance of pedestrian accessibility and of walkable downtowns to people who neither know about it nor really care? Other arguments, like personal safety and accessibility, didn't seem to resonate really at all, according to polling. So how much could the Yes side really do?

Frankly I'm just not sure Winnipeg was ready for this conversation. And I don't mean that in any sense of judgment of Winnipegers' traits. But Winnipeg's downtown is basically the last major Canadian downtown to start gentrifying. Houses continue to be developed on fields because Winnipeg's geographic area is still small enough where you can live by the perimeter and still be less than 30 mins driving from downtown. And the city's pride and self worth seems to come more from highway interchanges and an Ikea than from a hopeful future of a more exciting and prosperous downtown. It was a near-impossible task to convince a city in which the majority sees the downtown as a black hole that said downtown needs investment, and I commend the VoteOpen campaign for trying.

Last edited by GlassCity; Nov 14, 2018 at 10:41 AM.
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  #826  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2018, 2:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinus View Post
What was the voter turnout rate like? I cant find any news reports stating the no side one, right at this very minute.
Just under 40% turnout.

304,774 votes cast. 767,734 eligible voters.
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  #827  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2018, 3:27 PM
Bluenote Bluenote is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassCity View Post

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...main-1.4877508

The black lines represent wards.

Much more detailed by-polling-area map available here: https://wfpdata.s3.amazonaws.com/181...yVOIc_y_-oX9Ig

As far as your comments on Yes arguments not being as good - maybe, but it's hard. It's so easy to oppose things, especially easily-understood things like more money or time spent. How do you explain the importance of pedestrian accessibility and of walkable downtowns to people who neither know about it nor really care? Other arguments, like personal safety and accessibility, didn't seem to resonate really at all, according to polling. So how much could the Yes side really do?

Frankly I'm just not sure Winnipeg was ready for this conversation. And I don't mean that in any sense of judgment of Winnipegers' traits. But Winnipeg's downtown is basically the last major Canadian downtown to start gentrifying. Houses continue to be developed on fields because Winnipeg's geographic area is still small enough where you can live by the perimeter and still be less than 30 mins driving from downtown. And the city's pride and self worth seems to come more from highway interchanges and an Ikea than from a hopeful future of a more exciting and prosperous downtown. It was a near-impossible task to convince a city in which the majority sees the downtown as a black hole that said downtown needs investment, and I commend the VoteOpen campaign for trying.

Good points raised.

Perimeter is provincial and needs to be done as it is a safety hazard. So that’s really not a comparison. But I get your point.

Places like finishing the ring road( inner ) that would be a good comparison or even better the redevelopment of the Polo Park clusterfuck of roadways. That’s very important to people.

Personally if this came up later on down the road when they start repairing the entire place which HAS to be done soon. And then laid out options in 3D models so people could see. I bet the rest of the city would be more yes then no. But the way it was brought out was silly and like something a grade 3 student would set up.

Protesting also didn’t help. It just pissed off the rush hour traffic people as they are already pisssed off being stuck in traffic. So the point was lost on them. Trust me I have crossed many times this city from north to south in evening rush hour and it’s more then an hour. And I only live on Kingston Row. So far from the burbs.

But let the new tower get built. Let some more development happen. Especially all those empty lots on Main and it will happen. If it doesn’t. The barricades will crumble and you can cross anyway lol.

But I want to see a REAL plan next time. One that includes not just the 4 corners. But those 4 entire blocks. And of course the underground. I have no idea way they ever built those Communist bunker entrances to begin with. Like what stupid designer thought those up? They were ugly from the first day. And that’s another thing . They are so low and ugly. People don’t even know they exist when they drive by. Had they been tall glass with well lite areas around them. People would be more ready to open this area. But as it sits. It’s just 4 ugly corners. Not just because of the barricades. But the corners themselves. Sure we throw up some sculptures here and there. A Christmas tree from the 50s. Some shitty flowers in the summer. And that’s it. Looks like shit.

Light up those buildings in a big way. Some screeens thrown up. One would be to advertise the Jets or Bombers games there. People would for sure notice.
Point is make people notice the 4 corners.
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  #828  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2018, 3:42 PM
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Great post GlassCity, couldn't agree more.

Hell, Saskatoon is less than half the size and has a more walkable, pedestrian-friendly, and arguably more vibrant downtown on a regular basis. They even have international retail brands like Lululemon right on the street.
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  #829  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2018, 4:38 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzg View Post
Great post GlassCity, couldn't agree more.

Hell, Saskatoon is less than half the size and has a more walkable, pedestrian-friendly, and arguably more vibrant downtown on a regular basis. They even have international retail brands like Lululemon right on the street.
Right?
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  #830  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2018, 5:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Jets4Life View Post
I'm becoming convinced that people are going to vote "no" on anything that is placed on a referendum.
So you are saying Winnipeg should have had a question like:

"Do you want Portage and Main to remain closed to pedestrians?"

I think the underlying issues is more complex that which side is the "no" vote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote View Post
Personally if this came up later on down the road when they start repairing the entire place which HAS to be done soon. And then laid out options in 3D models so people could see. I bet the rest of the city would be more yes then no. But the way it was brought out was silly and like something a grade 3 student would set up.
I agree the lack of complete, proper, detailed and official information on Portage and Main significantly hurt the Team Open vote.

That said the needed repairs to Portage and Main do not need to be hard tied into permanent opening or closing. They could do something like the "temporary" jersery barriers when the intersection is rebuilt.
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  #831  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2018, 6:23 PM
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Originally Posted by CoryB View Post
So you are saying Winnipeg should have had a question like:

"Do you want Portage and Main to remain closed to pedestrians?"

I think the underlying issues is more complex that which side is the "no" vote.



I agree the lack of complete, proper, detailed and official information on Portage and Main significantly hurt the Team Open vote.

That said the needed repairs to Portage and Main do not need to be hard tied into permanent opening or closing. They could do something like the "temporary" jersery barriers when the intersection is rebuilt.
I hear this often, but I don't really understand it. What did people need to see to change their mind and think opening Portage and Main was a good idea? Flashy lights, and nice landscaping, etc? Because really, I don't think you should need that. We literally just want people to be able to cross the street. That's it. It shouldn't have to come with a whole revamp of the intersection to be acceptable.

Also, I wonder if doing that would've lent even more power to the "don't spend my moneeyyy!!!!" crowd.
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  #832  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2018, 4:14 PM
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^^ For the Portage and Main discussion I had hoped to see the following pieces of information:

1. The factual impact to transit operations the change would have. There was lots of noise on different opinions and suggestions there was more information in a study some at city hall had access to that was not made public.

2. A study of the impact to all modes of traffic through a wider area of downtown. The study that was made public in a limited fashion looked exclusively at Portage and Main in isolation. Traffic downtown quickly will stack up over many intersections when there are restrictions on the current flow.

3. An actual real-time study of the impact of the proposed change. Winnipeg has a Traffic Management Centre that can adjust the timing of lights on the fly via remote from their office. The timing of Portage & Main could have easily been adjusted to simulate the impact of pedestrians crossing to demonstrate there was "no meaningful impact" to traffic.

--

That would have been a good start to addressing the position of keeping it closed. That information though was completely lacking, or in the case of the transit study not shared transparently. There is also the whole first study which was done and, to the best of my knowledge, never made public. Simply keeping it unpublished lets people try and spin its possible results for whatever their own position is, ie "it says P&M should be kept close".
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  #833  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2018, 4:58 AM
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Yes, great idea, too bad we're not really a city known for being proactive or transparent... or smart.
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  #834  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2019, 8:38 PM
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Car fire at Portage & Main. Definitely time to close P & M to auto traffic....for the safety of all.
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  #835  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2019, 4:29 PM
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Car fire at Portage & Main. Definitely time to close P & M to auto traffic....for the safety of all.
Yikes, when??? I was at P+M all afternoon and didn't catch wind of this!

EDIT:

And of course I googled right after posting... 8:30 am. Still surprised nobody was chatting about it, or atleast nobody I talked to.
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  #836  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2019, 6:59 PM
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Everyone is afraid of uttering the words Portage and Main after the civil war.
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  #837  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2019, 7:02 PM
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When can we start debating the merits of opening Main & Portage? Just do it already.
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  #838  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2019, 7:06 PM
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Too soon.
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  #839  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2019, 7:44 PM
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If only there were a thread where we could discuss it on an unending basis. Someone should do a poll.
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  #840  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2019, 7:57 PM
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I find it interesting how all those "accessibility advocates" preaching about how that was the fundamental issue on why Portage and Main needed at-grade pedestrian crossing are stone cold silent on how the snow clearing efforts routine remove snow from on street parking and dump four foot file piles on sidewalks making them completely inaccessible to anyone.
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