HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Politics


View Poll Results: Which electoral system do you think is better for BC?
First-Past-the-post (existing) 37 46.84%
BC-Single Transferable Vote 42 53.16%
Voters: 79. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 10:50 PM
metroXpress's Avatar
metroXpress metroXpress is offline
(||||||-||||-||||||)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 2,220
Electoral Reforms

What do you support?
__________________
"Think simple…reduce the whole
of its parts into the simplest terms,
Getting back to first principles"


~ FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2009, 1:12 AM
David's Avatar
David David is offline
David
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Vancouver Island, British Columbia
Posts: 1,453
STV for sure!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2009, 3:47 AM
djmk's Avatar
djmk djmk is offline
victory in near
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: North Vancouver
Posts: 1,569
status quo for me please
__________________
i have no idea what's going on
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2009, 4:16 AM
jlousa's Avatar
jlousa jlousa is offline
Ferris Wheel Hater
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,371
First past the post for me. Minority govts suck. If a majority takes advantage of it's mandate they are tossed out soon enough.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2009, 4:39 AM
Kodii Kodii is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 341
FPTP.

If spending half an hour trying to understand a new system and coming out still not understanding the details of the system, then it is too complicated for the vast elections-uneducated apathetic population. It's hard enough for people to educate themselves on a few candidates let alone 20.

STV gives the population, as a whole, better representation, but I don't like the idea of Abbotsford being amalgamated with everything up and out to Hope just so I can vote for 7 Liberal candidates.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2009, 4:49 AM
WBC WBC is offline
Transit User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Metrotown/Downtown
Posts: 786
First-Past-the-post.

To quote Ricky Bobby: "If you ain't first, you're last"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2009, 5:24 AM
usog usog is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 580
Big NO on this. We don't need European-style fragmented government.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2009, 6:30 AM
djmk's Avatar
djmk djmk is offline
victory in near
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: North Vancouver
Posts: 1,569
Quote:
Originally Posted by usog View Post
Big NO on this. We don't need European-style fragmented government.
actually only ireland and malta have STV, but i get your point.

my question is, if two or more people (and or parties) are representing your riding, who is in charge? who takes the blame for the bad times and who takes the credit during good times. and who sits on their ass while the others do all the work? how is work divvied up?
__________________
i have no idea what's going on
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2009, 6:38 AM
mr.x's Avatar
mr.x mr.x is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 12,805
First past the post as well, I'm not a fan of minority governments.


Unfortunately, I have a feeling it'll pass this time. In the last referendum, it failed by only like 1 or 2 percent.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2009, 8:37 AM
MistyMountainHop's Avatar
MistyMountainHop MistyMountainHop is offline
I worship Led Zeppelin
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,233
STV

It's unfortunate that the Green Party has such a significant share of the popular vote, but no seats. With the current system BC is almost like the American two-party system. Minority governments prevent one party from gaining too much power, which has led to some problems under both the Liberals and the NDP.
__________________
Bill: Be excellent to each other.
Ted: Party on, dudes.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2009, 3:06 PM
s211 s211 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The People's Glorious Republic of ... Sigh...
Posts: 8,093
Minority governments = stagnation.

Take a look at Italy and give your head a serious shake if think STV's will herald in a new age of peace, love and legal drugs.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Apr 28, 2009, 10:58 PM
paradigm4 paradigm4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Surrey, BC
Posts: 688
Both the federal and municipal elections left me feeling my votes were wasted - and that's because they were. We need proportional representation to ensure that elections are fairer and that every vote counts. We are one of the three last major Western countries without some form of proportional representation.

There's issues with all electoral systems, but this is the one the Citizen's Assembly unanimously endorsed for BC, so I trust their judgement. The current system just doesn't work.

And, I don't see what's so wrong with minority/coalition governments. While it may take some adjustment, it forces parties and elected officials to work together to get things done. Furthermore, seems to me like Europe has their shit together more so than the rest of the world.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2009, 4:05 AM
metroXpress's Avatar
metroXpress metroXpress is offline
(||||||-||||-||||||)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 2,220
Fptp.
__________________
"Think simple…reduce the whole
of its parts into the simplest terms,
Getting back to first principles"


~ FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2009, 5:30 AM
s211 s211 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The People's Glorious Republic of ... Sigh...
Posts: 8,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradigm4 View Post
Both the federal and municipal elections left me feeling my votes were wasted - and that's because they were. We need proportional representation to ensure that elections are fairer and that every vote counts. We are one of the three last major Western countries without some form of proportional representation.

There's issues with all electoral systems, but this is the one the Citizen's Assembly unanimously endorsed for BC, so I trust their judgement. The current system just doesn't work.

And, I don't see what's so wrong with minority/coalition governments. While it may take some adjustment, it forces parties and elected officials to work together to get things done. Furthermore, seems to me like Europe has their shit together more so than the rest of the world.
Excuse me? ITALY! Stagnation-ista-ville! Try again.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2009, 4:07 PM
djmk's Avatar
djmk djmk is offline
victory in near
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: North Vancouver
Posts: 1,569
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradigm4 View Post
Both the federal and municipal elections left me feeling my votes were wasted - and that's because they were.
you only feel that way because you did not pick the winner. better luck next time. and by the way, no votes were thrown out or "wasted"
__________________
i have no idea what's going on
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2009, 4:55 PM
waterloowarrior's Avatar
waterloowarrior waterloowarrior is offline
National Capital Region
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Eastern Ontario
Posts: 9,243
You can't just point to a couple of poor examples like Italy or Israel, there are dozens of countries using some form of PR and countless lower tier governments. It's like saying we shouldn't build tunnels because of the Big Dig. Italy doesn't even use STV, they use a brand new party list system (they used to have an AMS, before that a more pure PR system)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17  
Old Posted Apr 29, 2009, 5:08 PM
johnjimbc johnjimbc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 766
BC Will not become Italy if STV passes. I think there are more than a few centuries of culture in the politics there, including a large stint where the Pope essentially ran the country. And then there was that whole empire thing prior to then.

There exists other countries with STV other than Italy who manage to produce stable, productive governments. Why aren't they being used as examples in this discussion? (hint - it's because they work better than Italy and are thus not seen as worthy of mention).

I think there are plenty of merits to argue either side of the debate, but I have to chuckle at the "OMG! We'll be Italy" meme.

This is one area where, despite the obvious potshots that can be tossed in recent years, the US system has a lot to commend it. States routinely have representatives from one party and an executive from another party - particularly if the state is undergoing some change or the recent majority party has gotten a little too snug in its position. The current BC election strikes me as an election that would ideally yield an NDP majority in representation with Campbell remaining as Premier, but the current system can't produce that result.

As Canada won't be giving up Parliamentary procedure itself (nor should it, in my opinion) and a viable third party doesn't seem to be in the cards for BC at this point (apologies to the Greens and the Conservatives), I think some form of Proportional Representation is a way of lessening the "all or nothing" leadership that seems to breed an environment ripe for insider corruption or heavy-handed legislation.

How both the NDP and BC Libs have managed to have leaders that are so uninspiring to the bulk of the Province is the one mystery I'll never understand. Perhaps someone can enlighten me on what about the current system led to that situation?

For the record, I'm not sure how I feel about STV so this wasn't meant as an advocating of it. I just really don't like when the "extreme argument" is being peddled as the ultimate natural outcome of any political decision. That's how I view the Italy comments so I was responding to that specifically.

Now I'm going to go look at pretty pictures of the skyline. It's the real reason I like this site, I absorb enough politics from the news . Cheers!

Last edited by johnjimbc; Apr 29, 2009 at 5:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #18  
Old Posted May 1, 2009, 2:28 AM
paradigm4 paradigm4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Surrey, BC
Posts: 688
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmk View Post
you only feel that way because you did not pick the winner. better luck next time. and by the way, no votes were thrown out or "wasted"
Are you serious?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #19  
Old Posted May 1, 2009, 3:34 PM
s211 s211 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The People's Glorious Republic of ... Sigh...
Posts: 8,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjimbc View Post
BC Will not become Italy if STV passes. I think there are more than a few centuries of culture in the politics there, including a large stint where the Pope essentially ran the country. And then there was that whole empire thing prior to then.

There exists other countries with STV other than Italy who manage to produce stable, productive governments. Why aren't they being used as examples in this discussion? (hint - it's because they work better than Italy and are thus not seen as worthy of mention).

I think there are plenty of merits to argue either side of the debate, but I have to chuckle at the "OMG! We'll be Italy" meme.
Laugh away, fun boy.

Tell us where STV has a success, and good luck not pointing to some socialist paradise with debilitating taxation rates, stagnant growth and sky-high suicide rates to boot.

I can't wait for the first cabal of left-leaning psychos to form a coalition in the province. Can you say "goodbye economy"? Hell, if investors ran for the hills when the NDP was in power in the 90s...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #20  
Old Posted May 1, 2009, 5:16 PM
djmk's Avatar
djmk djmk is offline
victory in near
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: North Vancouver
Posts: 1,569
Quote:
Originally Posted by s211 View Post

I can't wait for the first cabal of left-leaning psychos to form a coalition in the province.
i can totally see this happen. i believe here in BC, the left (ndp) and right (libs) are a tie. whoever wins is largely based on the charisma of the leader and the political climate of the day. if the greens get seats, i see the NDP changing radically their enviro policy to match better with the greens to ensure a coalition gov't.

the great thing about just having two parties, is that it forces both into the center. once you have fringe parties that speak loudly for a minority, weird things happen. europe is full of extreme right wing parties
__________________
i have no idea what's going on
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Politics
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 4:02 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.