New CP Rail Yards & other development in South Edmonton.

[Hallsy's Toupee]

Or, the CP corridor can also provide opportunities to make Gateway Blvd/Calgary Tr a more free-flowing road. Not a freeway - because that's the F word in these parts - but improvements so there's better traffic flow between downtown and YEG.

[Coldrsx]

Other than making 34ave work, no.

[vaportrail]

Originally Posted by Hallsy's Toupee

Or, the CP corridor can also provide opportunities to make Gateway Blvd/Calgary Tr a more free-flowing road. Not a freeway - because that's the F word in these parts - but improvements so there's better traffic flow between downtown and YEG.

In part at least, yes.

I can't imagine how CP could eliminate their line through Edmonton. That is, the line along Gateway up to just south of 63 Avenue where it veers east toward refinery row and onward. However, if and when they shut down the Edmonton Yard (between Whyte and 63 Avenue), there would be great opportunity to create a primary north/south arterial through to downtown, while allowing the current 109 Street, 104 Street and Gateway roads to become far more interactive and pedestrian (and bicycle) oriented.

But what to do between 63 and 34 avenues to accommodate such a two-way route to downtown seems far less obvious.

[technomad]

Hi all, first post.

Originally Posted by vaportrail

But what to do between 63 and 34 avenues to accommodate such a two-way route to downtown seems far less obvious.

Dream scenario?

Acquire all properties between the rail line and gateway, from 34 to 63 av. Existing businesses could relocate nearby, plenty of gaps and room for redevelopment there still.

Use this land for a free flow gateway and double rail line for HSR/Commuter use. Convert Calgary trail to two way traffic to provide local access.

I know at one time there was talk of running the road under sask drive, cut and cover sort of thing. I believe if HSR were to use the high level bridge, the rail line would also have to be underground here too. Continue the cut and cover tunnels for both until ~68 av, and regrid the area for residential infill.

Pricy? Yeah, dreams usually are...

[hqcan]

^Not sure about HSR (simply because of other issues with that project) but I agree with the idea of what your saying. The key here is to make a free flowing connection from the Edmonton International Airport right through to Downtown Edmonton. The new walterdale Bridge will already be aligned to handle road works on it's south (planned for an underpass at sask drive to eliminate hairpin)

[Coldrsx]

I'd rather we see remedial and infill as per strathcona junction. Lands south of 63 could become a wicked multi use trail and park. We do not need a freeway.

[dansk]

I have to say that Edmonton needs to improve access to its core . . . Highway might not be the best as it would divide the city, but right now it is just a mess. Not business friendly. Actually something this city has known has been an issue and has failed to address.

[hqcan]

I'm sorry Ian but to a company that has people flying daily between Edmonton, Calgary, and Fort Mcmurray (among slighly less frequent transborder and international trips), connectivity to the EIA is crucial. In fact that kind of a factor can actually impact where a company chooses to have offices (note the new KBR/Halliburton offices in the Ellerslie park among the plethora of examples).

And while the airport is only 30 km's from downtown edmonton, it takes anywhere from 36 minutes in a no traffic scenario, right up to 90 minutes if gateway is backed up by Whyte. That is significant.

I realize you are very big on residential, post secondary, and retail growth in downtown, but it seems you completely ignore the workforce that makes so many downtown's great. And it's the workforce that Edmonton's downtown is sorely lacking.

[SHOFEAR]

I really like the idea about creating a new route while making calgary trial and gateway two directions. while we would loose the opportunity to redevelop some of the CP lands, it opens up the opportunity to drastically change the feel of those streets and underused areas fronting it.

[s211]

Originally Posted by hqcan

I'm sorry Ian but to a company that has people flying daily between Edmonton, Calgary, and Fort Mcmurray (among slighly less frequent transborder and international trips), connectivity to the EIA is crucial. In fact that kind of a factor can actually impact where a company chooses to have offices (note the new KBR/Halliburton offices in the Ellerslie park among the plethora of examples).

And while the airport is only 30 km's from downtown edmonton, it takes anywhere from 36 minutes in a no traffic scenario, right up to 90 minutes if gateway is backed up by Whyte. That is significant.

I realize you are very big on residential, post secondary, and retail growth in downtown, but it seems you completely ignore the workforce that makes so many downtown's great. And it's the workforce that Edmonton's downtown is sorely lacking.

Need fewer gov't jobs, and more real productive jobs downtown, yes?

[tallisgood]

Originally Posted by dansk

I have to say that Edmonton needs to improve access to its core . . . Highway might not be the best as it would divide the city, but right now it is just a mess. Not business friendly. Actually something this city has known has been an issue and has failed to address.

Lack of an effective N-S route has been a problem in E-town for as long as I can remember, but hey, if you need to get from Burnwood to Lewis Estates that Whitemud really does the trick...

[hqcan]

Originally Posted by s211

Need fewer gov't jobs, and more real productive jobs downtown, yes?

Yep that's exactly it in a nutshell. It's pretty simple really. I understand guys like Ian's passion and demand that we invest in our downtown. I agree with that. I agree that we need to pump money into the core in order to see a return.

But having said that, it's ridiculous to try and push public project after public project. Arena, RAM, CRL based downtown projects, Gmac/Norquest/Enterprise square campus expansions, Fed bldg/Centennial plaza, capital blvd, and leg grounds revitalization are ALL funded through public dollars. They are all great projects but you can't base a city's downtown solely on the expectation that the government will fund and occupy it through various means.

If you actually want true sustained growth it needs to be done by private companies which will bring in real inflows of capital.

[technomad]

Originally Posted by hqcan

^Not sure about HSR (simply because of other issues with that project) but I agree with the idea of what your saying. The key here is to make a free flowing connection from the Edmonton International Airport right through to Downtown Edmonton. The new walterdale Bridge will already be aligned to handle road works on it's south (planned for an underpass at sask drive to eliminate hairpin)

Plus, if the southbound traffic from the core was moved onto a second bridge there, that could free up the vehicle deck of the high level for steetcar use, linking whyte to downtown via 109 st.

Getting all that traffic out of garneau would really improve the feel of the neighborhood.

[technomad]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

I'd rather we see remedial and infill as per strathcona junction. Lands south of 63 could become a wicked multi use trail and park. We do not need a freeway.

By definition, we don't really need all that much. Food and clothes are nice, everything else is gravy

We do have plenty of trails and parks in this city, the river valley and nearby mill creek come to mind.

Gateway should have been chosen for the freeway route as soon as the mill creek freeway plan was cancelled.

But don't mistake this for freeway fundamentalism, I think this city needs a robust transportation network in all modes. I have plenty of opinions on the so called LRT plans this city has too.

[technomad]

Originally Posted by dansk

I have to say that Edmonton needs to improve access to its core . . . Highway might not be the best as it would divide the city, but right now it is just a mess. Not business friendly. Actually something this city has known has been an issue and has failed to address.

Agreed, it's really frustrating to see a city that excels on so many levels, (ie. world waste management leaders, best municipal drinking water I've had, awesome parks, etc) fail so miserably on something as important as transportation.

[technomad]

Originally Posted by SHOFEAR

I really like the idea about creating a new route while making calgary trial and gateway two directions. while we would loose the opportunity to redevelop some of the CP lands, it opens up the opportunity to drastically change the feel of those streets and underused areas fronting it.

Exactly, that part of the city is already divided by the general crapiness of the gateway corridor. This is an opportunity to drastically improve the transportation network, and revitalize a corridor.

[Coldrsx]

1. Private dollars will flow after our forthcoming public investment.

2. Traffic in garneau is not going away and 'traffic' is what makes it a great neighbourhood.

3. Close some of the ridiculous local access points on gateway, sequence lights a little longer, but good god no freeway.

4. Rezone the gateway corridor to slowly push out types of businesses that we dont want as the 'face' of our city.

[Mercucio]

^ A freeway through a crappy industrial zone is actually not that bad an idea. Limited access roads in urban areas are not totally evil. Sorry, Cold, Jane Jacobs didn't have it 100% right.

Most cities have industrial parks and light mechanical on their edges. Exhibit A is Calgary. Their northeast by the airport is as bleak as our southend that Gateway and Calgary Trail go through. The difference is you whip through Calgary's on the Deerfoot on your way downtown. If the freeway is replacing a rail right of way in Edmonton through industrial parks, what's the downside? Then do like they talked about and bury it through Strathcona.

Little known fact, there is a freeway that runs through central Paris alongside the Seine. You don't see it because it's largely below ground. I know, I know. It's Paris and they have a long way to go to get up to speed on their urban form...

[tallisgood]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

3. Close some of the ridiculous local access points on gateway, sequence lights a little longer, but good god no freeway.

I agree, it doesn't have to technically be a freeway, just a more effective N-S route that provides access to downtown. 91st Street up to Argyll isn't a freeway but it is quite effective. Too bad it ends in the middle of no where.

[Coldrsx]

^actually, be glad it does given where it was intended to go...