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  #601  
Old Posted May 18, 2017, 1:49 AM
warpus warpus is offline
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Originally Posted by Stevo26 View Post
A lot of Londoners seem to be very anti-progress and I can't understand why. Are they so lacking in intelligence that they cannot see the positive aspects of things like BRT?
London is a car town. It's really spread out and the transit sucks so most people drive. A lot of people don't know of any other way to get around the city other than driving. They see how bad traffic can get and they think that dedicated bus lanes are going to make things worse for drivers and impact their lifestyle as a result. They see BRT as a "war on the car" instead of a way to improve the city.

Moreover a decent amount of those people who drive are middle class or better. They feel that a city bus is for "poor people" and students. They don't think they would ever make use of public transit, so they don't consider BRT as a benefit to them personally, so they are against it.

I also think that all the construction and traffic issues stemming from construction over the last 5-10 years have really made people cynical. Some parts of town have just been horrible for that, and some of the construction has lasted quite a while. People look at this BRT proposal and see all the construction it's going to lead to and they are immediatelly against it, due to their recent experiences with construction in this city - traffic jams, a much longer commute, more stress, etc.

A lot of people I think just honestly think that BRT is a horrible idea. They think that the city staff and council are a bunch of dumbasses who came up with this BRT thing out of nowhere as a "Simpsons monorail" type of thing that's just not going to work. They see it as a waste of money that is being thrown at a method of transportation they view as inferior.

I would guess those are the main reasons. Thankfully the number of people for Rapid Transit is double that of those against it. The majority of people flat out against RT are over 50. Throw in some irate business owners and there you have your Anti-RT base, from which they have been trying to expand by spreading misinformation and propaganda.

By the way I have been lurking on these forums for years. I usually don't post, but I have been quite passionate about this whole RT thing, so I felt like finally it was time to chime in. It saddens me just how misinformed people are. The city has been releasing detailed blueprints and other information related to RT plans over the last couple years. I have been looking at this stuff religiously as it has been coming out. The basic plan has been available for public viewing for quite a while, and all the route analysis and comparisons have been out there as well. Yet most of the people against RT have never even looked at any of that until maybe recently, when all this downshift business started, and I would guess most of them haven't done so even now. If I was a business owner on one of the affected routes I would have been planning for RT as soon as the first plans came out, so that I would be ready when construction started. Yet most business owners who are now against RT didn't seem to even know it was happening. Doesn't a good business owner stay informed on what the city is up to, as to better plan for the future, and modify the business plans if necessary? I'm just a random citizen and I have been looking at these plans for years and I knew exactly what was coming.
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  #602  
Old Posted May 18, 2017, 4:42 AM
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Blitz Blitz is offline
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Originally Posted by Stevo26 View Post
Sad, but true.

I've lived in London for the last 27 years and find it to be a grey, concrete, and rather boring place, to say nothing of generally mediocre. I've learned to tolerate it because Toronto is too big, too noisy and too bloody expensive to live in.

I wonder if some people in London (especially older people) are concerned that it might get too big and it will then start reminding them too much of Toronto. They might prefer it to always be a small and somewhat backwater burg.
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  #603  
Old Posted May 18, 2017, 2:09 PM
Dupcheck Dupcheck is offline
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All said, i hope we do something about the root cause problem: train tracks at Richmond/Oxford. I heard the city is in talks with CN rail? Anyone has any news of this?
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  #604  
Old Posted May 18, 2017, 10:43 PM
Stevo26 Stevo26 is offline
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Originally Posted by Blitz View Post
I wonder if some people in London (especially older people) are concerned that it might get too big and it will then start reminding them too much of Toronto. They might prefer it to always be a small and somewhat backwater burg.
You do have a point. I doubt that London would ever get 'too big', for one simple reason.

The city is pursuing a policy of promoting and requiring densification and infill. That is, building up, rather than out. The purpose of this policy is to contain urban sprawl rather than encourage it.

A lot of people wouldn't consider this element of the equation, but increasing population density makes BRT work better because BRT lines wouldn't need to be extended to ever more far-flung areas, and increased population density tends to generate the ridership that would be needed to support BRT and one day, light rail.

There are people who think the people who work in city hall are idiots and that the BRT plan represents the height of stupidity, but after reviewing the BRT documents, I saw evidence of very careful consideration and planning, and doing the equivalent of thinking two or three moves ahead on the chess board. BRT isn't just a gimmick, a one-trick pony, it's actually a vital part of London's future growth

You can't stop London from getting bigger, anyway. You can't stop any municipality from getting bigger unless you enact and enforce policies that deliberately drive people away. Cities that are even modestly attractive to live in are going to attract people.

People will still want to live in London because it offers them a couple of things:

1) There's no need to settle in some far-flung suburb in the Greater Toronto Area and commute two-plus hours each day just to be able to afford a house in the region or find rental accommodation that takes more than half your net pay and forces you to live in a cockroach-infested broom closet;

2) House prices and rents here are still somewhat close to being sane.

Last edited by Stevo26; May 18, 2017 at 10:58 PM.
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