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  #41  
Old Posted May 19, 2017, 2:31 AM
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haljackey haljackey is offline
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Major announcement expected in London for a line that will stretch from Windsor-Toronto.

I've been duped before. That 300 km/h London-Toronto route was promised before the last provincial election to be built in 10 years. No shovels in the ground yet, and the Liberals backtracked saying they only wanted to 'study' it.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...rail-line.html

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-to...dsor-1.3420205

http://london.ctvnews.ca/wynne-to-ma...ndon-1.3420068
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  #42  
Old Posted May 19, 2017, 5:41 AM
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We will see what they say ??? That will change the whole southwest Ontario!!!!👍🏼👍🏼
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  #43  
Old Posted May 19, 2017, 10:21 AM
jammer139 jammer139 is offline
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Its pre election silly season. The Liberals pulled the same tactic last election in an attempt to get votes in SW Ontario. Expect more of this sort of stuff as the months pass.
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  #44  
Old Posted May 19, 2017, 2:37 PM
Stevo26 Stevo26 is offline
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Originally Posted by jammer139 View Post
Its pre election silly season. The Liberals pulled the same tactic last election in an attempt to get votes in SW Ontario. Expect more of this sort of stuff as the months pass.
Yep. That's exactly how I'm looking at this. The latest report says that as many as 10 million people might be using HSR, by 2041.

2041 is 24 years from now. What they're really saying is, "We're going to go through the motions of studying this yet again, but it won't get built until 2041... or later... or probably never." I'll be long dead by then.

I think the real stumbling block is this. Ontario is addicted to gasoline tax revenues. It also relies upon the auto industry for tax revenues and the generation of economic activity.

A high-speed rail line would result in significant reductions in gasoline tax revenues. It would also mean fewer cars being built and reductions in auto-related tax revenues as well as economic activity.

But not building a high-speed rail line is not an option, either. Ontario's population is expected to grow to nearly 20 - 30 million over the next 25 - 30 years.

The existing highway networks, i.e., 401, 403 and 407 are already clogged. There is no more room to build additional highways.

Most of the population growth is going to happen in the Golden Horseshoe, which encompasses the GTA, and in the heart of southwestern Ontario itself, namely the Golden Triangle area (KW-Cambridge) and in London.

All of those cities are located close enough to each other and the Golden Horseshoe to make high-speed rail both viable and necessary. In fact, the constellation of cities in this region greatly resembles the clustering of small, medium and large cities seen in central Europe, where high-speed rail works very well.

All that Ontario is doing right now is kicking the can down the road in an attempt to delay the inevitable. And the Liberals are hoping that people in SW Ontario who want high-speed rail will fall for this tactic once again.
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  #45  
Old Posted May 19, 2017, 3:43 PM
GreatTallNorth2 GreatTallNorth2 is offline
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This is good news. Even if it's been proposed a million times, it keeps people talking about HSR in Ontario. When there is an election, it will be a major issue and the PCs and NDPs will have to take a stand on HSR. If you are running for Premier in Ontario you will have to say 1) I don't want HSR in Ontario 2) I want HSR in Ontario but don't like this plan or 3) I want HSR in Ontario and here's my plan. If the Liberals win the next election, they will have to deliver and build it. This would be a game changer for London for sure. It's also interesting that they have added Chatham to this. Great news for them too.
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  #46  
Old Posted May 19, 2017, 4:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Stevo26 View Post
I think the real stumbling block is this. Ontario is addicted to gasoline tax revenues. It also relies upon the auto industry for tax revenues and the generation of economic activity.
The problem is that Toronto is growing rather rapidly and the 401 corridor is going to be experiencing more and more traffic jams as a result. Not too recently it was still the world's widest highway, but it is not good enough as a way to move people through Toronto and elsewhere. We need to get cars off the roads, especially given Toronto's projected growth rate, and high speed rail would help alleviate that. Toronto isn't really sustainable moving forward without some major infrastructure investments, and this is one of them.

I remain skeptical about this, given all the previous plans, but it does seem that it's a requirement rather than a "would be nice to have" type of luxury at this stage.
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  #47  
Old Posted May 19, 2017, 4:54 PM
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Ehhhhhhhhhh as a life long liberal / ndp guy, fuck the liberals... lies after lies after lies. When you finally start hiring people to dig the holes and put in lines, then I'll buy into what you're selling

Last edited by K85; May 19, 2017 at 5:53 PM.
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  #48  
Old Posted May 19, 2017, 6:53 PM
Dupcheck Dupcheck is offline
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The High Speed Rail would also naturally cool the GTA housing bubble, and increase the value of the homes in London.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitche...port-1.4123183

Last edited by Dupcheck; May 19, 2017 at 7:05 PM.
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  #49  
Old Posted May 19, 2017, 11:13 PM
HillStreetBlues HillStreetBlues is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2 View Post
This is good news. Even if it's been proposed a million times, it keeps people talking about HSR in Ontario. When there is an election, it will be a major issue and the PCs and NDPs will have to take a stand on HSR. If you are running for Premier in Ontario you will have to say 1) I don't want HSR in Ontario 2) I want HSR in Ontario but don't like this plan or 3) I want HSR in Ontario and here's my plan. If the Liberals win the next election, they will have to deliver and build it. This would be a game changer for London for sure. It's also interesting that they have added Chatham to this. Great news for them too.
At best, they have to perform an EA. They don't have to deliver anything. As for the other candidates, I would imagine they'll come out in favour of HSR insofar as it becomes an election issue (I don't think it will, compared to pharmacare and hydro).

Still, if you care about infrastructure, you almost have to vote Liberal, in spite of everything else. They offer the best chance at making the investments in infrastructure that we need.
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  #50  
Old Posted May 20, 2017, 10:03 PM
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I understand the negativity around here after this announcement, but can we all please take a second to look on the bright side? At least the Liberals are taking their time with this mega-project and exhausting all of the options before spending our hard earned tax payer money.

The original plan had a cost of ~$15billion for the Toronto-London phase. The new plan costs ~$4billion for that same phase. The first plan was unrealistic and I myself am very happy that they didn't just go ahead and waste our money, especially considering that the second plan is only 10-15 minutes longer for that same distance!!

Of course I hope that the Liberals aren't just using these announcements to make us all believe that they will do it, and instead, they really DO do it. Sadly, as was stated by another commenter, our only real political choice for getting Ontario the infrastructure investment that it needs is the Liberals. If we want to have any hope of getting the transportation systems that all of us in Ontario deserves then we need to continue putting pressure on the Liberals to deliver on their promises.
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  #51  
Old Posted Yesterday, 11:18 AM
jammer139 jammer139 is offline
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Don't agree at all that the only political choice is the Liberals.

The simple reality is HSR will only become a reality if there is economic numbers to justify it. Government alone cannot built and operate this megaproject. The Private sector must be involved. The other parties can also accomplish this as easily as the Liberals.

In the end HSR is not an election issue in the coming years as there is far more important things that need to be addressed such as trade, energy and healthcare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoofy View Post
I understand the negativity around here after this announcement, but can we all please take a second to look on the bright side? At least the Liberals are taking their time with this mega-project and exhausting all of the options before spending our hard earned tax payer money.

The original plan had a cost of ~$15billion for the Toronto-London phase. The new plan costs ~$4billion for that same phase. The first plan was unrealistic and I myself am very happy that they didn't just go ahead and waste our money, especially considering that the second plan is only 10-15 minutes longer for that same distance!!

Of course I hope that the Liberals aren't just using these announcements to make us all believe that they will do it, and instead, they really DO do it. Sadly, as was stated by another commenter, our only real political choice for getting Ontario the infrastructure investment that it needs is the Liberals. If we want to have any hope of getting the transportation systems that all of us in Ontario deserves then we need to continue putting pressure on the Liberals to deliver on their promises.
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  #52  
Old Posted Yesterday, 1:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevo26 View Post
Yep. That's exactly how I'm looking at this. The latest report says that as many as 10 million people might be using HSR, by 2041.

2041 is 24 years from now. What they're really saying is, "We're going to go through the motions of studying this yet again, but it won't get built until 2041... or later... or probably never." I'll be long dead by then.

I think the real stumbling block is this. Ontario is addicted to gasoline tax revenues. It also relies upon the auto industry for tax revenues and the generation of economic activity.

A high-speed rail line would result in significant reductions in gasoline tax revenues. It would also mean fewer cars being built and reductions in auto-related tax revenues as well as economic activity.

But not building a high-speed rail line is not an option, either. Ontario's population is expected to grow to nearly 20 - 30 million over the next 25 - 30 years.

The existing highway networks, i.e., 401, 403 and 407 are already clogged. There is no more room to build additional highways.

Most of the population growth is going to happen in the Golden Horseshoe, which encompasses the GTA, and in the heart of southwestern Ontario itself, namely the Golden Triangle area (KW-Cambridge) and in London.

All of those cities are located close enough to each other and the Golden Horseshoe to make high-speed rail both viable and necessary. In fact, the constellation of cities in this region greatly resembles the clustering of small, medium and large cities seen in central Europe, where high-speed rail works very well.

All that Ontario is doing right now is kicking the can down the road in an attempt to delay the inevitable. And the Liberals are hoping that people in SW Ontario who want high-speed rail will fall for this tactic once again.
Windsor and area is also growing quickly right now, and has had one of the lowest unemployment rates in Southwestern Ontario for a while now, 4.9% currently, so I wouldn't count Windsor out of the potential high growth areas in the Southwest.
region.
And don't forget the 4.3M people right across the river from Windsor that will be filling many of the seats on the trains. This will essentially be connecting Toronto and Detroit with Southwestern Ontario in between! Detroit cannot be taken out of the equation simply because it lies across the border.
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  #53  
Old Posted Yesterday, 3:56 PM
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Maybe one day we'll see a line go all the way from Chicago to Quebec City.

That would take a huge strain off airports and highways, although you'd need the lines to have stops at airports or a reliable connection from the station to airport.
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