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  #4841  
Old Posted May 19, 2017, 10:57 PM
whatnext whatnext is online now
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Originally Posted by Aroundtheworld View Post
Assuming your assumptions are correct (which I'm not sold on) you are forgetting that some trips will actually be shorter with the viaducts torn down. I know for me having Georgia street connect directly with Pacific would provide a more direct route than what I have to do now.

It may not balance out the added delay you are talking about. I just want to be clear it's not a clear negative for vehicle commuters. The post viaducts road network favours connectivity and redundancy vs pure speed.
And you'll be competing with a lot more motorists for space on that new connection since the viaducts won't be an option. It's a lose-lose for motorists and cyclists who use the viaducts now, and there will be many more pedestrian-vehicle interfaces on the at grade roads.
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  #4842  
Old Posted May 20, 2017, 5:50 AM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
If you want to help people in the DTES, take the ballooning $100-200 million budget for viaduct removal and do something with it that actually helps with the issues there.
I definitely agree with this. As a Vancouver taxpayer I cannot stomach the escalating cost of removing perfectly good infrastructure when there are clearly much more important issues at hand to deal with.
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  #4843  
Old Posted May 20, 2017, 6:19 AM
Vin Vin is offline
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I definitely agree with this. As a Vancouver taxpayer I cannot stomach the escalating cost of removing perfectly good infrastructure when there are clearly much more important issues at hand to deal with.
Totally agreed!

Also, think about back in the days the minds that came together to design the viaducts, the money of tax payers going into paying for them to be built, with the residents expecting them to last, the countless hours saved by moving vehicles quickly and efficiently in and out of the downtown core, etc. If our forebears were to know that the viaducts would be torn down way before their lifespan is up, do you think they would think their investments were justified? It's easy for the new generation to dismiss something so easily and destroy anything with a stroke of the pen, but think about the amount of blood and sweat people of a previous generation poured into getting something built, and its really shameful that people today fail to cherish their efforts. Truly Shameful.

And all the spending just to boost the collective ego of the the current City council, without any improvement whatsoever in sight.
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  #4844  
Old Posted May 20, 2017, 6:19 AM
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Stingray2004 Stingray2004 is offline
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
LOL, tearing down the viaducts will do Zero Good for the misery in the DTES. It will however be great for Concord, and we all know where Vision's bread is buttered.

If you want to help people in the DTES, take the ballooning $100-200 million budget for viaduct removal and do something with it that actually helps with the issues there.
Haha. You are one fella that I have never been able to figure out. You always seem to rant against Mayor "Moonbeam"/Vision Vancouver councillors and their policies.

Yet, the 2017 BC NDP platform was mostly/co-drafted by Vision Vancouver councillor Geoff Meggs. The BC NDP platform was, for the most part, VV on "steroids". Yet, ya come across as someone that believes the BC NDP is the greatest thing since "sliced bread".

How do ya reconcile your two positions? Am always someone with open ears.
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  #4845  
Old Posted May 20, 2017, 7:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
Also, think about back in the days the minds that came together to design the viaducts, the money of tax payers going into paying for them to be built, with the residents expecting them to last, the countless hours saved by moving vehicles quickly and efficiently in and out of the downtown core, etc. If our forebears were to know that the viaducts would be torn down way before their lifespan is up, do you think they would think their investments were justified? It's easy for the new generation to dismiss something so easily and destroy anything with a stroke of the pen, but think about the amount of blood and sweat people of a previous generation poured into getting something built, and its really shameful that people today fail to cherish their efforts.
I'm sorry, do you mean the same tax payers and forbears that, to this day, brag about opposing the freeway project? And continue to cry blue murder about "paving paradise?"

Yes, Vancouver hates cars and roads, and yes, the whole project has the potential to be a disaster, but bringing in the old generation is a very questionable argument. A cursory Museum of Vancouver tour, English teacher rant or even a Google search would show that the whole anti-vehicle movement started with these hippies - they didn't want the viaducts in the first place!
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  #4846  
Old Posted May 20, 2017, 7:23 AM
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Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
And you'll be competing with a lot more motorists for space on that new connection since the viaducts won't be an option. It's a lose-lose for motorists and cyclists who use the viaducts now, and there will be many more pedestrian-vehicle interfaces on the at grade roads.
The design team showed their numbers and sims at the open house - assuming they're right, the new grid should be able to handle existing levels of traffic. Not sure about future levels.

I'm more worried about all the pedestrian crossings (Carrall, West Georgia, etc). Even with traffic signals - which weren't in the renders - it's going to be just as bad as Cambie and Broadway; without signals, it's going to be chaos. Not sure if City Hall's heard of these things called overpasses and underpasses.
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  #4847  
Old Posted May 20, 2017, 9:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
I'm sorry, do you mean the same tax payers and forbears that, to this day, brag about opposing the freeway project?
Sorry, but that's all complete rhetoric. And I state that because I know my complete history behind same.

Firstly, the 1970/1972 completion of viaducts was to replace the existing early 1900's viaduct, which was structurally unsound. Period.

The subsequent Georgia/Dunsmuir viaducts were designed to "potentially" tie into a future eastward connection to Hwy 1. The 1972 finalized designs for the E-W proposed Fwy through the Grandview Cut required extensive changes to the eastward section of the then new 'ducts.

You are just posting tired old early 1970's "Hippie" rhetoric from back in the day.

PS. Do you have a driver's license and/or own a vehicle? Just gotta ask. Don't be afraid to respond to same.
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  #4848  
Old Posted May 20, 2017, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by vanman View Post
I was in Hong Kong last week and noticed how that city treats many of its viaducts.







In my second pic you can see the tubing for the irrigation system that keeps the landscaping lush and green. I don't see why Vancouver can't do something similar with our viaducts for the next 40 plus years until they reach their end of life.
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Originally Posted by cornholio View Post
Vancouver can do that. They even had a comprehensive plan for park space and sports facilities under them that would have been a amazing amenity for locals. But instead they prefer to piss away tax payer dollars and hurt locals simply due to ideology of a few what I consider arrogant fools at city hall. The economic and social costs to Vancouver will go on for decades if they manage to destroy them.
Super stuff, the examples. Thanks, cornholio! Total logic. Better get onto this fast. either plan it, or better still, build
something fast that people can admire, appreciate, and which contributes boldly to the "green" element of the city. Plans for the demo are moving in pretty fast, it seems.
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  #4849  
Old Posted May 20, 2017, 4:18 PM
aberdeen5698 aberdeen5698 is offline
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
Also, think about back in the days the minds that came together to design the viaducts, the money of tax payers going into paying for them to be built, with the residents expecting them to last, the countless hours saved by moving vehicles quickly and efficiently in and out of the downtown core, etc.
The viaducts were designed to integrate into a freeway network that never came. And they were built to span an obstacle (rail yards) that no longer exist.

Priorities change.

I'm really not fond of the idea of tearing down infrastructure that still has a lot of remaining useful life. And as a taxpayer I'm upset at the dollars being spent, especially when this was initially sold as paying for itself.

But the reality is that if those viaducts were at end-of-life today they would be torn down and not replaced. There's no true need for them in the current context of the city. Two or three blocks of expressway just wouldn't give enough benefit to be worth replacing them.
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  #4850  
Old Posted May 20, 2017, 4:28 PM
whatnext whatnext is online now
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Originally Posted by Stingray2004 View Post
Haha. You are one fella that I have never been able to figure out. You always seem to rant against Mayor "Moonbeam"/Vision Vancouver councillors and their policies.

Yet, the 2017 BC NDP platform was mostly/co-drafted by Vision Vancouver councillor Geoff Meggs. The BC NDP platform was, for the most part, VV on "steroids". Yet, ya come across as someone that believes the BC NDP is the greatest thing since "sliced bread".

How do ya reconcile your two positions? Am always someone with open ears.
Its not that I think the BC NDP are the greatest thing since sliced bread, rather that Christy and the BC Liberals are the worst thing since turd cookies.

Pay for play fundraisers when she draws a salary from them? No thanks. Completely funded by corporate interests? I'll pass. I'm basically against any political organization that has sold its soul to developers. That means the BC Libs and Vision Vancouver. Vision has just been better at hoodwinking the bikeriding simpletons that somehow they're this touchy feelly party of the people. They're not, and that makes them even bigger hypocrites than the BC Libs. Both parties have presided over the wrecking of Vancouver as a place for ordinary Canadians, preferring instead to cater to the desires of offshore money.

I hope that the Civic Greens get it together enough in 2018 to kick Gregor to the curb, but I'm not that optimistic.
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  #4851  
Old Posted May 20, 2017, 5:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Stingray2004 View Post
You are just posting tired old early 1970's "Hippie" rhetoric from back in the day.
Context is key - in this case, the post I was replying to. That "tired old early 1970's hippie rhetoric" comes from practically anybody belonging to that generation... and the wishes of that generation are being invoked in said post to keep the viaducts .

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Originally Posted by Stingray2004 View Post
PS. Do you have a driver's license and/or own a vehicle? Just gotta ask.
One license, one Car2Go membership. Not sure what that has to do with anything.

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Originally Posted by Stingray2004 View Post
Don't be afraid to respond to same.
... No idea what this means.
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  #4852  
Old Posted May 20, 2017, 5:57 PM
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my 2 cents... there is no point debating the merits of something that is actually going to happen, esp when there is little that can be done at this point...

so when does construction begin? they were suggesting Jan 1, 2018 as the estimated/planned start date back when this went to council in 2015.
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  #4853  
Old Posted May 20, 2017, 6:33 PM
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so when does construction begin? they were suggesting Jan 1, 2018 as the estimated/planned start date back when this went to council in 2015.
They're scheduled to submit the final draft to City Council by fall/winter this year. Based on how fast most governments work, I'd guess summer 2018 at the earliest.
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  #4854  
Old Posted Yesterday, 12:59 AM
Vin Vin is offline
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Originally Posted by aberdeen5698 View Post
The viaducts were designed to integrate into a freeway network that never came. And they were built to span an obstacle (rail yards) that no longer exist.

Priorities change.

I'm really not fond of the idea of tearing down infrastructure that still has a lot of remaining useful life. And as a taxpayer I'm upset at the dollars being spent, especially when this was initially sold as paying for itself.

But the reality is that if those viaducts were at end-of-life today they would be torn down and not replaced. There's no true need for them in the current context of the city. Two or three blocks of expressway just wouldn't give enough benefit to be worth replacing them.
With or without the freeway (supposed to be at Prior Street/Strathcona), the viaducts are still being used efficiently to bring traffic in and out of downtown, and that is a fact. Removing them will create more congestions on ground-level streets. With many downtown streets facing congestions these days, no one ever questions why the streets surrounding the viaducts are never congested (not including special events, especially at the stadiums). The freeway excuse is just red-herring to get the viaducts removed.
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  #4855  
Old Posted Yesterday, 5:41 PM
s211 s211 is offline
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Originally Posted by rxp View Post
my 2 cents... there is no point debating the merits of something that is actually going to happen, esp when there is little that can be done at this point...
If anything, being able to speak one's mind whenever one chooses is an important way to remind offenders that they can try to sweep dirt under the carpet, but that you will always remember, and not forget. Otherwise, the offenders will delude themselves that they have won you over, or worn you down into submission.
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  #4856  
Old Posted Yesterday, 5:54 PM
aberdeen5698 aberdeen5698 is offline
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Originally Posted by s211 View Post
If anything, being able to speak one's mind whenever one chooses is an important way to remind offenders that they can try to sweep dirt under the carpet, but that you will always remember, and not forget. Otherwise, the offenders will delude themselves that they have won you over, or worn you down into submission.
The rocks may protest against being ground into dust, but the glacier simply doesn't care...
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  #4857  
Old Posted Today, 3:33 AM
Vin Vin is offline
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The rocks may protest against being ground into dust, but the glacier simply doesn't care...
So we cause global warming to melt the glacier.
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  #4858  
Old Posted Today, 5:50 AM
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Migrant_Coconut Migrant_Coconut is offline
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So we cause global warming to melt the glacier.
So (following the metaphor) only divine intervention can stop the demolition at this point... actually, that sounds about right.
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