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  #21  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2009, 6:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayward_prince View Post
I thought Manitoba members on this site generally deny anything negative about Winnipeg??? Violent crime...what violent crime???
some manitoba members of this forum choose to believe facts instead of media propoganda and false stereotypes from outsiders.

facts are facts...prove me wrong otherwise.


violent crime is like a drug to our media....watch the rochester cable news that we all get....a city with a similar size has more than twice the level of crime and violent crime, yet their news isnt story after story dealing with murder and beatings the way it is here.

http://cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?...ester&state=NY

Last edited by trueviking; Sep 23, 2009 at 6:54 PM.
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  #22  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2009, 8:35 PM
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Okay okay! Not to worry everybody... I'm here!

Unfortunately, I just discovered this thread. Don't have much time to respond to everything this afternoon. But a few quick comments...

Viking, I don't particularly feel it is best to compare Canadian cities to American cities regarding crime. Indeed, our crime is much less a concern overall in our cities compared to the US, and I agree with you there. However, I'm of the opinion that we should only compare ourselves to other Canadian cities. The reason being we have much different laws 'up here' than 'down there.' Notably, and I think you'll agree with me, we should be proud that we are (for the most part) not a gun-lovin' country, and it is good we have more restrictions on people acquiring firearms than what is seen in most of the US. I also believe our (chemical or opium-based) drug problems are not as severe, overall, and much of the drug trade influences violent crime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trueviking
facts are facts...prove me wrong otherwise.
Guess it is a matter of which "facts" one chooses to believe. While some statistics are showing a decline in the crime rates here in Winnipeg, which should make us all happy, it still says something about the state of crime in our city when we do have decent declines yet still outpace all other Canadian cities of our size in terms of crime severity:

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-.../10902-eng.pdf (see page 27).

That said, I don't think that we should be wishful in that an annual % drop in crime rates will continue, however. Must stay on top of the issue.

But, is the crime rate truly dropping? Here is a conflicting report I found in the CBC Manitoba Online. It notes, based on Winnipeg Police statistics, that "There were 531 more people injured in assaults in 2008 than in 2007, an increase of 10 per cent, according to data released by the police. Stabbings saw the greatest increase by percentage, a spike of 15 per cent over the same period." Source:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/st...-increase.html

Related, we have retained the dubious distinction of homicide capital:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/st...homicides.html

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hexrae
They said that? That's got to be the most idiotic statement I've read in awhile since the aforementioned 'fancy glass towers' aren't built to alleviate Winnipeg's crime problem.
Heh... well, no, never stated that 'fancy glass towers' would alleviate crime, or did I imply that some of you guys believe that either. What the comment related to was the perception of Winnipeg in the eyes of outsiders will not change because of 'fancy glass towers.' We could fill our city with 'cultural institutions,' but I remain of the opinion that it is incorrect to believe that the key to improving Winnipeg's image is building 'fancy glass cultural institutions.'

The crime stories will always take a front seat in the news reports (again, I think some of you will agree with me there, but we'll differ in that I believe that it would be doing the city a disservice to downplay the crime problems... crime needs to be a concern, if the voters don't care, neither will the policy makers). People always have an appetite for crime stories, it's like driving by a fresh car accident and taking a peak as you pass it by... human nature, I suppose. However, Winnipeg gets much national attention due to the frequency of our crimes; as well as the bizarre, severe or utterly senseless nature to many of our crime stories. The details of crimes that are violent seem to be much more 'straight forward' (if you will) in other cities than in Winnipeg, at least that is my sense.

To further illustrate this point, here is an article about Winnipeg written for people in Edmonton about a couple's visit to The Peg... doesn't paint a pretty picture. Here is how it starts:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmonton Sun
Poor Winnipeg.

You can promote arts, culture and the local pickerel industry all you want -- all it takes is one tourist being smashed in the face with a billiard ball in a sock, and then having his truck and priceless photos stolen, and it's right back to square one.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/cana...25471-sun.html
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vid
You're reposting news articles from the media. They're telling people, you're just parroting. (And committing copyright infringement, a crime.)
Guess our crime rate will go up even further now, yikes!

Can I assume that you'll be pointing this out to people like 1ajs, Newflyer, or Trueviking the next time they paste an article into the forum? I actually appreciate it when the members here post articles, have come across some stories I may have otherwise missed. Please, everyone, keep posting articles! Is it even illegal anyways, if you indicate the source?

******

Yes, I do have some "ideas for solutions," but just don't have the time right now unfortunately. Will do my best to get back here this evening or tomorrow.

Last edited by DowntownWpg; Sep 23, 2009 at 9:41 PM.
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  #23  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 2:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
some manitoba members of this forum choose to believe facts instead of media propoganda and false stereotypes from outsiders.

facts are facts...prove me wrong otherwise.


violent crime is like a drug to our media....watch the rochester cable news that we all get....a city with a similar size has more than twice the level of crime and violent crime, yet their news isnt story after story dealing with murder and beatings the way it is here.

http://cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?...ester&state=NY
That's because in most U.S. cities the ghettos where most crime takes place have been abandoned to their inhabitants for generations. People in those cities have never been near those places and just write it all off as an unsolvable problem that will hopefully stay confined to whatever horrible neighbourhood it is. In Winnipeg and Canadian cities generally, people still feel shock that things are happening in "their" city. To the average resident of St. Clair Shores or Orange County, things that happen in Detroit or South Central L.A. aren't happening to "their" city. They aren't commentaries on the decline of "their" society and don't really threaten "their" security. Psychologically it is all happening far away; there are no real connections between these places and the ordinary person's experience. Winnipeggers, on the other hand, still know and identify with the places where crime happens and haven't yet adjusted to a future in which entire sections of the city end up as no-go zones, left to rot away like the inner cities of the U.S. I think that's one reason that underclass crime in Winnipeg is paid more attention than underclass crime in a big U.S. city. We're not as cynical yet. Also, in Canada, more such crime may leech into better neighbourhoods, because good and bad neighbourhoods in Canadian cities aren't yet physically separated to the extent that they have become in the U.S.
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  #24  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 2:53 AM
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Well said. I wonder, is it naive to think it's not too late, that whole neighborhoods need not be forgotten?
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  #25  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 3:13 AM
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why walk there the solutions to the problems are multi genirational and for what ever reason no one thinks that way
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  #26  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 5:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DowntownWpg View Post
Okay okay! Not to worry everybody... I'm here!

Unfortunately, I just discovered this thread. Don't have much time to respond to everything this afternoon. But a few quick comments...

Viking, I don't particularly feel it is best to compare Canadian cities to American cities regarding crime. Indeed, our crime is much less a concern overall in our cities compared to the US, and I agree with you there. However, I'm of the opinion that we should only compare ourselves to other Canadian cities. The reason being we have much different laws 'up here' than 'down there.' Notably, and I think you'll agree with me, we should be proud that we are (for the most part) not a gun-lovin' country, and it is good we have more restrictions on people acquiring firearms than what is seen in most of the US. I also believe our (chemical or opium-based) drug problems are not as severe, overall, and much of the drug trade influences violent crime.

Guess it is a matter of which "facts" one chooses to believe. While some statistics are showing a decline in the crime rates here in Winnipeg, which should make us all happy, it still says something about the state of crime in our city when we do have decent declines yet still outpace all other Canadian cities of our size in terms of crime severity:
.

this article is exactly what i am talking about...a 10% increase in a single type of crime over one year is a big news story....why isnt the 30% drop in the last decade a story?....that article is reporting an anomoly in a larger trend...if people choose to draw conclusions about the greater picture based on that they are being ignorant...look at all the facts over a longer period of time and you will see crime and violent crime has dropped substantially over the last 10 years....the perception however is that it is wildly increasing.....that is my complaint.

my comparison to the american cities was only to put it all in perspective....perception is not reality.

i will agree that it is a problem that we always need to address...but the hysteria and stereotypes being driven by sensationalist media also needs to be addressed...this thread is a perfect axample.

poverty is the issue, plain and simple....work to eliminate that and you eliminate crime.
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  #27  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 9:34 PM
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Seems that the government has started to take notice.

After the huge success that the auto theft suppression task force has provided, here's hoping this could help getting some of the repeat offenders under close watch.

Quote:

Aggressive gang strategy launched

Last Updated: Thursday, September 24, 2009 | 3:29 PM CT
CBC News

Police in Winnipeg will be directed to aggressively pursue gang members as part of a new anti-gang strategy called Project Restore, unveiled by the province Thursday.

Police will target top gang members and enlist parents to help combat gang recruitment in the province.

Police will also focus more on enforcing the court-ordered bail and probation conditions of high-risk adult offenders believed to be at the core of many violent incidents in Winnipeg's North End, Attorney General Dave Chomiak announced.

The goals include gathering more information about who's associating with gangs to build police intelligence files.

Chomiak said the government and police will be constantly checking up on offenders and be "in their face."

The get-tough approach is similar to the Winnipeg Auto Theft Suppression Strategy, which helped reduce motor vehicle thefts in the city by 44 per cent from 2007 to 2008.

Under that program, 50 adult high-risk offenders, including gang members most likely to endanger the community, were closely monitored. Probation breaches brought early arrests and prosecutions.

According to Manitoba Public Insurance data, auto theft claims dropped in 2008 to a 17-year low, with 3,173 vehicle thefts or attempted thefts. The number had peaked at 16,986 in 2006.

More to come
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  #28  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 9:52 PM
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Article about Winnipeg in the Calgary Sun today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary Sun
Welcome to Detroit North: Visit Winnipeg at own risk
Gutter-level terrorism has Calgary couple's family hiding out

By MICHAEL PLATT

There's unclogging sewers, gutting chickens and cleaning up after elephants.

And then there are really brutal jobs, like working for the Detroit tourism authority: Imagine trying to lure visitors to a town rich in culture and history, yet tainted with a bloody reputation for violence and crime.

Winnipeg may never match Detroit's annual 300 murders or 10,000 assaults, but like the Motor City, it's fast becoming stained with the kind of reputation that scares visitors away.

Today, a Calgary family remains at the centre of a national news story, of the kind that leaves tourism and marketing executives weeping into their glossy brochures.

It started with a pool ball being smashed into a Calgary tourist's mouth, and has developed into a horrifying tale of uncontrolled crime, after the Calgarian's adult son was set on fire outside his Winnipeg home.

"I asked the mayor, why are you allowing these people to take over your city?" said Calgarian Susan Sanderson, whose stepson is now recovering in a hotel from first-and-second degree burns to his legs and torso.

"I told him, this has got to stop."

Susan has Winnipeg Mayor Sam Katz's personal cell-phone number, because the mayor gave it to her following Round 1 of their holiday from hell, which still isn't over.

Last week, 58-year-old Ralph Sanderson ended up in the emergency room after a gang of youths attacked him outside his son's Winnipeg home, because he asked the teenage thugs to move away from the property.

A mouthful of stitches later, courtesy of a billiard-ball stuffed in a sock, Ralph and Susan were returning to their hotel when they discovered their truck had been stolen, along with a box of family photos.

Mayor Katz tried to make it right, offering to buy the battered and bewildered Calgarians dinner, but the Sandersons chose to go home instead, preferring to leave Winnipeg behind.

If it had ended there, Winnipeg might have escaped with a minor black-eye.

If only.

A gang of thugs, apparently the same group with the penchant for pool balls, returned to the scene of the earlier crime in the middle of the night, armed with lighter fluid.

It seems they were probably going to torch the house or garage, but they woke up Derek Sanderson with their noise. He confronted them, so they used the lighter fluid to set him ablaze, fleeing when police arrived.

And so Ralph returned to Winnipeg, and has since been staying with his injured son and his wife, along with their two daughters, in a hotel.

They're too scared to return home, in case the gang returns.

"We've got to get these guys off the street," Ralph Sanderson told the Winnipeg Sun yesterday.

"I fear for my family."

Indeed, Derek's wife went back to fetch some clean clothes, but was forced to flee after some punks with knives chased her car.

And so a Calgary grandfather and his Winnipeg family remain refugees, because no one is able to protect them from the crime and violence around their own home.

"They have to stay in a hotel for their own protection -- no one else is helping them," said Susan.

"It's obvious the city and the police aren't in control."

That Winnipeg's mayor hasn't ordered a 24-hour police watch on the neighbourhood, for the sake of appearances in a limelight of national attention, boggles the mind.

This is about more than one family and a few visitors being picked on -- it's about risking a multimillion-dollar tourism industry, because the police in your city can't handle a gang of young savages.

Already holding the record as the most violent city in Canada, Winnipeg's failure to deal with this ongoing epic of gutter-level terrorism will leave a lasting impression on the whole country.

When a family is forced to hole up in a hotel because the police can't protect them, the result is an image that all the glossy tourism brochures in the world can't change.

At least the hotel room is getting some use now. It'll soon be empty, if crime is allowed to overshadow everything else Winnipeg stands for, like history, culture and music.

Fear takes forever to fade -- just ask Detroit.

MICHAEL.PLATT@SUNMEDIA.CA
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  #29  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 10:08 PM
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^ something about this story just doesn't seem right to me.

There has to be more to this than is being reported or known at this point.

I guess it's possible that a family is being targeted by some low-life's, but my gut tells me there is more of a back story here that the family isn't talking about.
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  #30  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 10:29 PM
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It's the Sun dude, it rarely reports things the way they actually happened, they have to sensationalize everything so people actually pick up their BS paper. The only reason I saw it was, it was in the news stand at the Deli I went to for lunch.
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  #31  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2009, 11:22 PM
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whats more alarming is the guy who got shot at after chasing some people out of his yard and wound up in the midle of a armed stand off this mroning over on redwood.......
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  #32  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2009, 4:54 AM
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Originally Posted by 1ajs View Post
the police are trying their best as is the city the province and feds are where the system is failing and allowing for this to fest as bad as it is :S
Criminal law is in the domain of the Federal Government as per the Constitution. The Provinces can create what are called quasi criminal laws, but they've done everything they can in this regard already. They've also paid for more police and prosecutors to be hired. It's up the the police to find strategies that work and the feds to change the laws now. The province and city have pretty much done what they can.
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  #33  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2009, 4:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Only The Lonely.. View Post
As a life long Winnipegger, I can't recall a time when we had so many high profile crimes being committed.

Much of it is that we now live in a 24 hour news cycle where bad news sensationalism sells. We're not as bad as the US in this regard, but we're bad enough.
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  #34  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2009, 5:05 AM
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^you mean 'reported' not 'committed'....OTL is easily seduced by headlines.

seriously, comparing winnipeg to detroit?!....that proves my point right there...

how can winnipeg even be mentioned in the same breath as detroit when we have almost 3 times less violent crime than omaha nebraska, 5 times less than oklahoma city and milwaukee, less than lincoln and spokane, cities far smaller than winnipeg.....are all these places also being painted with this sensationalist brush of doom and gloom?....

im pretty sure the image of these sleepy midwestern cities isnt one where "crime is allowed to overshadow everything", as is being suggested for winnipeg....do tourists not go to lincoln nebraska because it is too violent?...you are three times more likely to be attacked there (per capita).

put things in perspective for a second....geezus.


i can find articles referencing isolated crime for any city in canada......it is so blown out of proportion...

calgary is hardly any better off than we are....its all just sensationalist journalism.

Calgary's murder rate No. 4 in nation
http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...a-ecde408e44f8

Violent crime soaring as cocaine costs rise
http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/albe...18106-sun.html

Nazis, beatings bruise Calgary image
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/20...06261-sun.html

Last edited by trueviking; Sep 25, 2009 at 6:07 AM.
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  #35  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2009, 6:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
^you mean 'reported' not 'committed'....OTL is easily seduced by headlines.

seriously, comparing winnipeg to detroit?!....that proves my point right there...

how can winnipeg even be mentioned in the same breath as detroit when we have almost 3 times less violent crime than omaha nebraska, 5 times less than oklahoma city and milwaukee, less than lincoln and spokane, cities far smaller than winnipeg.....are all these places also being painted with this sensationalist brush of doom and gloom?....

im pretty sure the image of these sleepy midwestern cities isnt one where "crime is allowed to overshadow everything", as is being suggested for winnipeg....do tourists not go to lincoln nebraska because it is too violent?...you are three times more likely to be attacked there (per capita).

put things in perspective for a second....geezus.


i can find articles referencing isolated crime for any city in canada......it is so blown out of proportion...

calgary is hardly any better off than we are....its all just sensationalist journalism.

Calgary's murder rate No. 4 in nation
http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...a-ecde408e44f8

Violent crime soaring as cocaine costs rise
http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/albe...18106-sun.html

Nazis, beatings bruise Calgary image
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/20...06261-sun.html

How did I know you would come back with a bunch of articles bashing Calgary...

I do agree that's it's all sensationalism though, the media blows things out of proportion to sell papers.
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  #36  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2009, 6:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Calgarian View Post
How did I know you would come back with a bunch of articles bashing Calgary...
I don't think TV meant any harm to Calgary, it was just a point he was proving. I do understand the natural defense to someone posting negative news stories about your city though. I mean, didn't you just do the same thing 6 posts before TVs?
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  #37  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2009, 6:40 PM
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^ my intent was not to bash calgary, but only to say that the crime in every city can be sensationalized...this happened to be a calgary article claiming that winnipeg is detroit....if it was a vancouver paper, i would have found vancouver articles.

it seems that the media has latched on to this stereotype without puting it into perspective....and people seem to blindly accept it as fact....this stuff happens everywhere and in most places in north america way more often than it does in winnipeg.
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  #38  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2009, 8:02 PM
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There is a mindset that this type of crime cannot happen in Winnipeg; very naive! It is happening, so we need to deal with it. I agree, the city has done all it can...it is up to the feds to up the ante!

Personally, I am all for busting heads!

Not buying the "poverty" issue; poverty existed 100 years ago when the north end of Winnipeg was dominated by Polish, Ukrainians, Jewish residents...the area was still safe; safe enough for Bubbas and children to walk at all times of the day! Ya need to look at who is committing the crimes now, and create a solution.

Last edited by Winnipegger@Heart; Sep 25, 2009 at 8:20 PM.
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  #39  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2009, 9:53 PM
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Winnipeg is safer now than it has been in a long time. That can't be ignored. Is there more work to do? Of course there is. Is everything going to hell? Definitely not.
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  #40  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2009, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Winnipegger@Heart View Post
Not buying the "poverty" issue; poverty existed 100 years ago when the north end of Winnipeg was dominated by Polish, Ukrainians, Jewish residents...the area was still safe; safe enough for Bubbas and children to walk at all times of the day! Ya need to look at who is committing the crimes now, and create a solution.
I'm sorry, how about you enlighten me as to any crime issues back then as opposed to now? I see what you're getting at, but how can you compare poverty from different eras? Seems wreckless if you ask me.
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