Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport (YOW/CYOW)

[RomanR27]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

I wonder whether the airport collects the tonnage data from the ground handler for these ad-hoc cargo flights, which are becoming increasingly regular? I'd hazard a guess 'No' given the lack of reporting of cargo statistics anywhere, including the annual report.

It's funny to see all the different companies being used. We've had Atlas, Kalitta, Centurion, and then there was the DC-10/MD-11 in the winter too that did the route.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

It's funny to see all the different companies being used. We've had Atlas, Kalitta, Centurion, and then there was the DC-10/MD-11 in the winter too that did the route.

Yeah that was the Kelowna Flightcraft DC-10.

[YOWflier]

Not strictly YOW related, but we spoke about Transat's misleading marketing some pages back. Looks like deception and misleading are systemic within that company. I'm not sure if they contract Flair to do any sun flying from YOW:

The 'Mexican game': How Air Transat misled passengers and aviation officials

...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/flai...ines-1.4096090

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

Not strictly YOW related, but we spoke about Transat's misleading marketing some pages back. Looks like deception and misleading are systemic within that company. I'm not sure if they contract Flair to do any sun flying from YOW:



http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/flai...ines-1.4096090

Ah the weekly 'industry expert' Gabor Lukas 'misled' airline industry story on CBC. These are clickbait. So the pax get in an hour later than planned. Overall a minor inconvenience.

How is this any different than any other tech stop?

What's worse a fuel stop or risking fuel starvation like happened in South America last year? Funny how the CBC 'report' doesn't reference that fact.

There are no penalties for filing flight plans an airline has no intention of following, he said.

Considering flight plans change for who knows how many flights a year, what exactly does he think should constitute a penalty?

[YOWflier]

There's a significant difference between a tech stop that's known to the paying clientele and flying an alleged nonstop service with an aircraft doesn't actually have the capability of doing it, thus necessitating the tech stop, but not actually telling people about it.

Air Transat's manager of commercial operations was prepared for the planes not being able to make the northbound flight non-stop. In an email to Flair's director of flight operations, Mauricio Diaz gave the following instructions. 

"Due to Mexican authorities restrictions, we always need to file a direct flight (flight plans) CUN-YEG [from Cancun to Edmonton]," he wrote in a May 2016 email to Flair.

"Never file CUN-MSY-YEG [Cancun-New Orleans-Edmonton] because it will be refused by [the Mexican authorities]," the email continues. "When the flight is airborne from [Cancun], you can plan the technical stop in [New Orleans] and advise ATC [air traffic control]."

Air Transat spokesperson Debbie Cabana refused to comment about this email."

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

There's a significant difference between a tech stop that's known to the paying clientele and flying an alleged nonstop service with an aircraft doesn't actually have the capability of doing it, thus necessitating the tech stop, but not actually telling people about it.

Agree there is some deception about it, but in all airlines' contract of carriage (that fine print nobody reads), it basically says 'we promise to take you from point A to point B and deviations from the planned times/routings may occur'.

[RomanR27]

There will be an Air Transat charter from YEG this evening (TS8801). It will be returning to YUL as TS31.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/TSC8801

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/TSC31

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

There will be an Air Transat charter from YEG this evening (TS8801). It will be returning to YUL as TS31.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/TSC8801

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/TSC31

Cool another troop charter.

[khabibulin]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Agree there is some deception about it, but in all airlines' contract of carriage (that fine print nobody reads), it basically says 'we promise to take you from point A to point B and deviations from the planned times/routings may occur'.

I think one of the main issues is that pilots are being told to knowingly file false flight plans. What happens if the flight loses radio contact and no one knows where it is headed? This is a major safety concern.

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Agree there is some deception about it, but in all airlines' contract of carriage (that fine print nobody reads), it basically says 'we promise to take you from point A to point B and deviations from the planned times/routings may occur'.

It's true, but for me it's a matter of intent. It is (almost) every airline's intent to fly you from A to B without deviation/irregular operations, but that clause is entered into the CoC as a CYA tactic. In this case there is no such intent and worse, they aren't telling people. Plus, there's the safety aspect to consider as mentioned above.

[casper]

Originally Posted by khabibulin

I think one of the main issues is that pilots are being told to knowingly file false flight plans. What happens if the flight loses radio contact and no one knows where it is headed? This is a major safety concern.

Perhaps someone who working in the airline industry can comment. However, I don't think for commercial flights the pilots actually file the flight plan. They are in charge of what is going on, but their is a dispatcher back at the airline operations centre that does all the paper work and is in regular communication with the pilot. He/she co-ordinates all the other stuff around the flight such as making arrangement for a fuel truck to meet the aircraft etc.

I don't know the specific here, but I have been told on some routes it is common practice to file a plan for a diversion point when they get close they refile for the final destination if things have gone well and they don't need to stop.

[YOWflier]

For what it's worth...

Commercial pilots don't file the flight plan; airline operations does it. Operations may also upload the flight plan to the aircraft's Flight Management Computer if the capability exists, otherwise the pilot enters it manually or calls it up from a list of frequent company routes stored in the FMC. During preflight preparations a pilot will request departure clearance and ATC will provide the clearance along with departure instructions (active runway, standard departure procedure - called a SID - every airport has these) in order to get them onto the "flight plan route". The pilot must read back those instructions to confirm understanding.

Flight plans have one origin and one destination. They often have diversion points, called alternates, defined within them, although a diversion point is never the destination until and if it needs to be.

Of course, irrespective of what's in the filed/approved flight, ATC instructions always trump whatever the aircraft has been programmed to fly. This happens a lot, especially when an aircraft enters terminal airspace (i.e. is close to landing).

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

It's true, but for me it's a matter of intent. It is (almost) every airline's intent to fly you from A to B without deviation/irregular operations, but that clause is entered into the CoC as a CYA tactic. In this case there is no such intent and worse, they aren't telling people. Plus, there's the safety aspect to consider as mentioned above.

I agree about the safety aspect. However, TS/Flair were definitely taking that into account as the emails (likely between dispatchers at each air carrier) give the full impression that they were fully intending on fuel stopping regardless of what the flight plan said. Nowhere in the article was there any mention of declarations of fuel emergencies. Something like that would have been of true concern to make publicly known.

There's an airliners.net thread about this and someone said they checked flightaware and the number of diversions over the entire winter season amounted to 11 between YLW and YEG combined. In other words, the majority still operated nonstop.

[Dominion301]

I was browsing AC's timetable this morning. Believe it or not, they're actually making one small upgauge this summer.

YOW-YFC is upgauged from a DH1 to a CRJ. Flight frequency remains 6 weekly, but that's an extra 156 seats a week to/from YFC.

[Dominion301]

Here's some breaking news. New Leaf Travel has been bought by Flair, which essentially paves the way for New Leaf's contractor (i.e. Flair) to become a scheduled air carrier).

Maybe they'll actually expand to YOW.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/newl...tjet-1.4149722

[RomanR27]

The airport authority has launched a website for the master plan to be released next year:
http://2038.yow.ca/

[YOWflier]

I took the survey on that link the other day and tore them a new one in the process...not that anyone will read my comments mind you.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

I took the survey on that link the other day and tore them a new one in the process...not that anyone will read my comments mind you.

What did you say to them?

From this new website:

Since Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport Authority assumed responsibility for managing YOW in 1997, our passenger traffic has increased from 3.0 million passengers to 4.7 million passengers and cargo has increased from 12,020 tonnes in 2010 to 12,858 tonnes in 2016.

That's the first time I have seen cargo statistics for YOW in eons. 838 tonnes gained in 6 years. However, given YOW's economy, I'm not surprised that the figure has remained relatively steady over that time. I'd imagine cargo heading up to YFB is pretty steady all the time and I guess that means CargoJet, FedEx and belly cargo are all pretty steady too.

[YOWflier]

I conveyed thoughts consistent with what we've been discussing in this thread, both as a frequent business traveler and leisure traveler. These were in response to the questions about "vision" and how to achieve it.

I also complimented the things that are worthy of it.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by ac888yow

I conveyed thoughts consistent with what we've been discussing in this thread, both as a frequent business traveler and leisure traveler. These were in response to the questions about "vision" and how to achieve it.

I also complimented the things that are worthy of it.

Yeah their lack of marketing and disclosure of information to the public that other airports share are definitely things to point out on the negative side to them.

What were the compliments?