Portland - Milwaukie Light Rail (PMLR) | Completed - Page 20

tablemtn · #**381** Posted **Feb 22, 2012, 8:26 PM**

Two armed robberies at MAX stations in just a few days... Tri-Met needs to put a swift end to this, because the "crime train" reputation is lighting up again. Ever since that 11-year-old got caught with a loaded pistol on the MAX, there have been a string of high-profile incidents on the system or its stations.

NJD · #**382** Posted **Feb 23, 2012, 4:57 PM**

If you haven't already seen it, there is an online open house looking for comments...

http://www.trimet.org/pm/openhouse/index.htm

Grantenfuego · #**383** Posted **Feb 25, 2012, 12:28 AM**

It would be such a tragedy if this max line got shelved. I'm wondering though, if it did, would Tri Met start planning a line to Tigard?

MarkDaMan · #**384** Posted **Feb 25, 2012, 1:04 AM**

It's not going to be. At the very most, which I would give a .01% chance, they'd shorten the line ending it in Portland/Multnomah County. Keep in mind, the government and neighborhoods in Milwaukee have been working on this project for over a decade, they were planning it when I moved back here in 2002. There has been plenty of time for the people that would be affected by this line, to protest it. I don't care what the mayor of Damascus and the asshats in Estacada think about the light rail to Milwaukie, even though they live in Clackamas, this is a regional issue and is decided by the state, Metro and TriMet as a regional priority.

IMHO, end the line at Portland's edge and add a $5 per crossing toll on the new Sellwood for none MultCo residents. Earmark that money to go strictly to new rail lines, streetcars and bike lanes in Portland.

twofiftyfive · #**385** Posted **Feb 25, 2012, 1:06 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grantenfuego

It would be such a tragedy if this max line got shelved. I'm wondering though, if it did, would Tri Met start planning a line to Tigard?

It isn't going to be shelved. TriMet can afford the minimum operating segment even without Milwaukie and Clackamas County's contribution (see here). The DJC headline is a bit sensationalist.

twofiftyfive · #**386** Posted **Feb 25, 2012, 1:10 AM**

^^^ I should read the latest comments before I hit Submit.

From the post on Portland Transport, it looks like the MOS includes stations in Milwaukie, so if those were cut the feds might change their mind about matching funds. But we can build the MOS w/o the $5 mil from Milwaukie or the $25 mil from Clack Co, so Milwaukee could get the line without paying their share. Unfair, but better than canceling the project.

Grantenfuego · #**387** Posted **Feb 25, 2012, 11:23 AM**

Quote:

I don't care what the mayor of Damascus and the asshats in Estacada think about the light rail to Milwaukie, even though they live in Clackamas, this is a regional issue and is decided by the state, Metro and TriMet as a regional priority.

IMHO, end the line at Portland's edge and add a $5 per crossing toll on the new Sellwood for none MultCo residents. Earmark that money to go strictly to new rail lines, streetcars and bike lanes in Portland.

I would absolutely support that toll if I lived there. I think a lot of people from Multnomah county would, especially people from southwest Portland (and Tigard). Where I grew up (Tigard/Garden Home), people have been waiting for a max line for a long time and have a much larger population to support it. Regardless, I'm glad to know that the orange line will move forward. It's definitely an important leg of the complete system.

zilfondel · #**388** Posted **Feb 25, 2012, 7:05 PM**

I completely agree that Tigard/Garden Home and SW Portland should have had a MAX line a long time ago. I think the Milwaukie MAX is the first 1/2 of the eventual build out to Oregon City.

Grantenfuego · #**389** Posted **Feb 25, 2012, 8:56 PM**

I understand why they don't have one there yet. Running it down Barbur/99w may not be very successful and if they run it through all the neighborhoods it needs to go through it would be the most expensive line yet.

The Milwaukie line, I think, will have far better ridership numbers once it is extended to Oregon city. Hopefully that plan is in the not-too-distant future.

Shilo Rune 96 · #**390** Posted **Feb 26, 2012, 5:04 AM**

Tigard Max Prototype:

• Video Link

PS. I know many of us have already seen this video on the boards, but I wanted to share just incase some have not.

Derek · #**391** Posted **Feb 26, 2012, 6:48 AM**

Impressive, but what are the chances of (anything like) that actually happening?

Grantenfuego · #**392** Posted **Feb 27, 2012, 11:29 PM**

In My opinion very slim. The demand would need to be through the roof for an super expensive subway to be built. Unfortunately these areas are still very car oriented and even though there is enough support for a max line to come, there will be enough opposition to keep it from being built the way it should be.

I love this guys vision for the layout for the tunnel and rest of the line. This is without a doubt the most effective route for the line. Hopefully I'm completely wrong and the demand+road congestion+an economic turnaround makes all the cards fall into place and the line will be built.

MarkDaMan · #**393** Posted **Feb 28, 2012, 12:49 AM**

^I'll be damned if I can remember where I read it, but I think the future line is tentatively going to head under Marquam Hill with an underground stop for OHSU, but I don't know how long it plans on traveling underground. Similar to the Blue Line through the West Hills.

zilfondel · #**394** Posted **Feb 28, 2012, 2:30 AM**

The area is very hilly, and for it to serve any actual destinations, it will have to snake around and be somewhat grade separated. I doubt that SW Portland neighborhood associations or Tigard would like to put Barbur Blvd on a road diet to 2 lanes. I'm kind of pessimistic about what will eventually be built, but there really is no room on the existing Barbur Blvd ROW. Hopefully they'll have a stop in Hillsdale - that would really help ridership, I think.

cityscapes · #**395** Posted **Feb 28, 2012, 3:02 AM**

At some point you have to stop thinking about how suburban and car oriented those areas are now and think about the future. The MAX shouldn't be on Barbur Blvd it should serve that corridor without reducing the road capacity. By spending significantly more and tunneling the service will be faster, and the TOD opportunities in Hillsdale and Multnomah village could be used to increase ridership. If the money is spent for a subway the TOD should be more Vancouver in terms of density rather than Orenco station to maximize space. I think despite the cost this line should get priority because it would help congestion on I-5 and barbur and would connect PSU and PCC which I'm sure have a lot of people who commute back and forth between the two.

Derek · #**396** Posted **Feb 28, 2012, 3:02 AM**

What about an elevated MAX line, above Barbur?

bvpcvm · #**397** Posted **Feb 28, 2012, 6:35 AM**

I commute, downtown -> Tigard every day and even when I-5 is at a standstill traffic is still more or less moving on Barbur. (Maybe not so much up by Burlingame.) And when I-5 is flowing freely, Barbur's a piece of cake. So actually I think you could put Barbur on a "lane diet". Or, it might be possible to squeeze MAX in between Barbur and I-5.

Unless community college classes make a big switch to online delivery (a possibility), a tunnel under PCC would make a lot of sense. And a tunnel under Hillsdale and OHSU is already included as a possibility in metro's long-range high-capacity transit study of a few years ago.

BUT. We're talking ideal world here. Unless the US economy turns around, Faux News goes off the air and Wendell Cox has a heart attack, there will be significant opposition to building any sort of rail in this corridor, much less something expensive enough to be worthwhile. The anti-everything crowd is simply on high alert, ever vigilant against any non-road infrastructure projects. Until Ed Zumwalt and his generation are gone, it's going to be an uphill battle to be a 21st-century city.

bvpcvm · #**398** Posted **Feb 28, 2012, 6:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by tworivers

Milwaukie resident Ed Zumwalt is the author of a petition seeking to subject the Portland-Milwaukie light-rail project to increased public scrutiny. He needs to collect 1,724 signatures by late summer to place a measure on a special election ballot in September. (Photo by Sam Tenney/DJC)

^^^ This guy has me thinking once again about how I cannot wait for his ignorant, hate-filled generation to die off and leave the rest of us to clean up the mess they've left us. The sooner the better.

Isn't it ironic that he's standing on a sidewalk in front of what appears to be some sort of cafe with sidewalk seating? A more appropriate photo for this guy would be him standing on a freeway shoulder, or driving (windows up, doors locked) down our grand McLoughlin Boulevard (south of Milwaukie).

Grantenfuego · #**399** Posted **Mar 1, 2012, 10:59 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cityscapes

By spending significantly more and tunneling the service will be faster, and the TOD opportunities in Hillsdale and Multnomah village could be used to increase ridership.

I totally agree, especially Multnomah village. That is a fantastic neighborhood cut off from the rest of the city and just waiting to blossom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek

What about an elevated MAX line, above Barbur?

I don't know any real numbers on this, but I feel like while planning an elevated structure this long someone would say "lets spend a bit more and put this line underground through the neighborhoods where it would be effective".

Derek · #**400** Posted **Mar 1, 2012, 5:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grantenfuego

I don't know any real numbers on this, but I feel like while planning an elevated structure this long someone would say "lets spend a bit more and put this line underground through the neighborhoods where it would be effective".

Vancouver did it, partially at least, and their system seems pretty effective. Their trains don't even have drivers!