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  #5301  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2010, 1:29 AM
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Great shots T-Mac. I always enjoy your photo updates.
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  #5302  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2010, 4:24 AM
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Thanks, T-Mac for the photos! I will miss the Bennion Jewelers building, it is very nice.

There has been a lot of talk of the airport lately, so I will just throw a few thoughts in.

The airport authority is well aware the current terminal is not adequate for current or future needs. But at the same time it has a very tight rope to walk to keep tenants happy with low costs and find a way to build the new terminal. One of the key advantages SLC offers airlines is the low enplanement costs, thus making it much easier for airlines to make money here. Enplanement costs at other airports like Denver for example are more than three times more.

Capital improvements at the airport do not cost local tax payers anything. All the money comes from federal grants and from small surcharges added into each ticket a passenger purchases. Now the airport could fast track the new terminal and have it operating in a few years but would pass a large tab onto the airlines by way of lease rates and landing fees. To do that would require the airport taking out a bond for a couple billion dollars and would lead to the enplanement costs to the airlines to probably double. In negotiations with airlines, it was revealed the airlines would rather see the airport take a slower approach and gradually build the new terminals and keep the costs to them lower. So that is most likely what will happen. We will see a nice new terminal, but it is going to come at a much slower and gradual pace, replacing current concourses and terminals one by one over the next probably 10-15 years. During the last 3-5 years or so there have been several preparations made to build the new terminals, and this will continue. It is a massive project, and there will continue to be a lot of activity for many years to come. A lot of it is stuff passengers won't really notice much, but even today there is plenty of dirt moving around and concrete being laid out there to prepare for the new facilities. Between now and then you will likely see some minor improvements to the current terminals. You will also gradually see the new support buildings be built like a new parking structure and other things required before a new terminal comes.

As for what it will look like, there are no definite blueprints or designs made up. But there have been rough layouts and envisions done several times over the years and it has consistently resulted in a layout similar to Denver except with two long concourses as opposed to three (shorter length ones) at Denver. Architecturally, it will be similar to other buildings the city has built or will build; very open, attractive, full of natural light, and environmentally friendly, along the lines of other recent city buildings like the City Library and now the PSB.

The airline industry is frequently changing and requiring airports to adapt to their needs. Once the new terminal and concourses are done, it will be very highly regarded among passengers and airlines alike. It isn't going to be quick, but it will be done right. They aren't going to build it and take the risk of airlines cutting back service as a result of fee increases. This has happened in other cities that have built or are building new terminals like Indianapolis and Sacramento.

As for SLC's status as a Delta hub, I think it's future is very secure and will continue to see growth. The airport goes to great lengths to appease its tenants, especially Delta, which is one of the main reasons we don't yet have a new terminal. Delta doesn't want its costs to go up, and moving their hub elsewhere would greatly increase their costs. The airport will not go forward with any major expenditures without Delta's blessing and commitment, trust me. And Delta and United aren't going to merge. United and Continental are just entering a very long process of merger and even though Delta and Northwest are techically one airline now, there are still aspects of two seperate operations that still need to come together completely. United has even cut back some service in Denver since Southwest has come in and really competed there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Portland Dude View Post
Yes the runways and taxiways are unsafe, and need to be fixed, but have you ever been in terminal 2 during the main rush hour around 9:00 am-11:30ish? Experience that and you will be wanting to doing something to get the new terminal built as soon as possible.

5 months ago I was flying from Portland to Phoenix, with a connection in SLC, it was super crowded and it clearly showed that the current terminal is too small.
I don't really know how you jumped to the conclusion the runways and taxiways are 'unsafe'. I am guessing that was just a poor choice of words. Because even in its current state, the SLC airport is one of the safest in the world.

Last edited by skyguy414; Nov 21, 2010 at 4:37 AM.
     
     
  #5303  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2010, 6:30 AM
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Well regardless, SLC airport officials need to do something and come up with a plan about a new terminal, asap! SLC's airport is falling behind, and its becoming obvious. Look around at the other western cities and their airports.

-Las Vegas is almost done with their new terminal, and they already have a brand new, very large concourse D as well.

-Denver is expanding their concourse C, mostly for Southwest Airlines. Their airport is modern enough as it is already!

-Phoenix is about to remodel their terminals to be more modern and easier to move throughout. They are almost done with their new train system as well.

-Portland has a very modern and somewhat new terminal and concourses that are big and can handle future growth.

-Even Sacramento and San Jose have brand new terminals as well!

-LAX has already began on their massive expansion project, which will blow all other airports out of the water.

- San Francisco has their new international terminal and almost complete, brand new Terminal 2 that will be state of the art.

-Oakland about 2 years ago expanded their terminal 2 by adding I think 8 or 9 gates.

-Seattle finished their expanded terminal and concourses a couple years ago too!

-Long Beach is leveling their current terminal and building a very modern and impressive brand new terminal from scratch! This is mostly to help future growth for JetBlue at LGB.

-San Diego added about 12 gates to their terminal 2, and now they are already about to expand that terminal even more by adding about another 6 gates!

-Even St. George has a brand new airport that is about to open! They realized and saw a problem and fixed it, unlike SLC!

And of course we are stuck here in SLC with our circa 1960's airport that has been remodeled once and that was in the 1980's, and even then, they didnt do much to make it better. The colors in the terminal and outside of it are pathetic and ugly! I hate that brownish color all over the terminals and concourses. The international terminal at SLC is a joke, and is way too small and the entire customs and immigration is small and crowded as well. The entire process of flying int'l into SLC is a joke.

(does anyone have a picture of the inside of the international terminal of SLC where the customs and immigrations are located to prove how small and bad it is?)

Something I've noticed that is obviously hurting SLC Airport's terminal and gate situation is the expansion of international flights to/from SLC. On some days of the week in the late evening, you'll have gates D2, D4, and D6 all occupied while flights from Mexico are waitng on the tarmac up to 30 minutes just for one of those gates to open.

Also in the spring and summer the seasonal flight from Tokyo-Narita, a lot of the time has to wait for gate D2 to be open. D2 is the only gate the can hande the A330-200. Once I saw it wating for 40 minutes for that one single gate to open. It's Rediculous. What's even more rediculous is that when the flight from Tokyo is at gate D2, the flight from Paris has to be at gate D6 because the airlplanes are too big to be right next to each other so they have to make D4 unusable for a period of time. The planes flying between Tokyo and Paris from SLC are pretty much too big to handle at the current concourse D.

SLC needs to get with it, it is getting bad.
     
     
  #5304  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2010, 7:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Portland Dude View Post
Well regardless, SLC airport officials need to do something and come up with a plan about a new terminal, asap! SLC's airport is falling behind, and its becoming obvious. Look around at the other western cities and their airports.

SLC needs to get with it, it is getting bad.
I blame Rocky Anderson. During his tenure was what I call SLC's 'lost decade,' because during 8 years of Rocky rule, absolutely nothing was accomplished. I'm not criticizing Rocky because of his politics (most of which I agree with) like some people do... But seriously, his only accomplishments as mayor were orange flags and ass-backwards parking downtown. The city's master plan was last updated a year or two before he became mayor and not touched once during his tenure. The planning dept went all to hell. Everyone in his administration quit, and then the new hires quit, again and again and again.

Towards the end of Deedee Corradini's 2nd term, she announced plans for the new SLC airport and then Rocky became mayor and the plans died in their tracks. For some reason, the City Weekly had a personal vendetta against Deedee Corradini and kept trying to pin charges on Corradini in the Bonneville Pacific scandal... after all the official investigations, she was cleared of everything, except she unfortunately borrowed money from some bigwigs in the city to cover her legal bills—which was her downfall... even that, she was shown to not be guilty of any wrongdoing in borrowing the money, but some felt it was unethical.

But that aside, if you look at the actual accomplishments, a LOT happened during Corradini's tenure. She made things happen in the city, among other things: the new city library, updated city master plan, instrumental in SLC getting 2002 Olympics, got Union Pacific to move/consolidate their train tracks to make Gateway Mall possible, chose location for the SLC Central Station (although Rocky tried to F*** that up), rebuilt the baseball stadium to get the Buzz team to move to Utah, was also instrumental in getting federal funding for the I-15 overhaul and TRAX funding... and then NOTHING happened for 8 years under Rocky.

Interestingly, the publisher of the City Weekly was a personal friend of Rocky Anderson and constantly crowed about how great Rocky was until the last 2-3 years of his tenure when even the City Weekly started to rag on him and say he was a bad mayor.
     
     
  #5305  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2010, 9:05 AM
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I tried to explain why the airport can't just snap their fingers and build the new terminal. It isn't that easy for a number of reasons. And again, the airport is well aware the current facilities are inadequate and don't accommodate the growth it would otherwise likely see. They aren't just sitting and doing nothing about it. Plans are constantly being analyzed, revised, and implemented. The airport wants a new terminal, trust me. But again, taking on a huge financial burden all at once and thus jacking up the rates on the airlines would only antagonize them. The industry is too fragile for that. The airports who have recently built new terminals are also very much in debt and have to raise their fees to cover the costs. Denver airport for example is almost $5 billion in debt. SLC airport has no debt at all. Not to mention, some of the airports saw a loss or decrease in service from the airlines because they didn't want to pay the higher costs to fly there.

SLC is doing a lot more work than people realize. They are in the process of relocating all of the deice pads to the ends of the runways so planes can de-ice right before takeoff as opposed to just after pushback which will prevent a possible 2-time deice scenario. They are also doing this because the construction of the new terminal and concourses will be built on top of where the current de-ice pads currently are. While this doesn't seem like a big project and most passengers wouldn't even notice it, it is a 2 to 3 year project, has created hundreds of jobs, and will improve efficiency and result in big financial savings to the airport and airlines when the new deice pads are up and running. There has been a lot of work done to prepare for the new terminal, but there is still much more to do.

The airport also recently added 4 additional gates to the B concourse and added jetways to all of the gates on B concourse which previously didn't have them for the Delta Connection flights, so now all gates on the B concourse have jetways and special elevators which bring passenger's gate-check carryon bags up to them next to the boarding doors. The E concourse "Y", where much of the SkyWest flights are, is currently covered but has no climate control will eventually be completely enclosed and will likely have some form of jetways on them.

While the current terminal infrastructure is outdated, for its age it is well maintained.

I don't think the whole process of flying into SLC is "a joke". Even for its current infrastructure, it is much more efficient than most airports in the country. Look at JFK, LGA, EWR, PHL, SFO, or ORD for example. SLC has consistently won awards for the best snow-removal process in the country and its on-time performance is one of the best in the US. On top of it, the costs of operating here are among the lowest there is and certainly the lowest among hub airports.

SLC knows they need a new terminal and they have known this for many years, but they aren't going to just build a new terminal and piss off the airlines at the same time. It will be built, but it is going to take time.

Last edited by skyguy414; Nov 21, 2010 at 10:08 AM.
     
     
  #5306  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2010, 12:39 PM
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Thankyou Skyguy for your fact based and knowledgeable explanation regarding the airport.

Also Stenar, I really enjoyed and appreciated that you reminded us how much we really owe Mayor Corradini. She was an outstanding Mayor. My biggest regret is that Corradini was not the one to hand over the reigns to Becker.
     
     
  #5307  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2010, 4:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyguy414 View Post

I don't think the whole process of flying into SLC is "a joke". Even for its current infrastructure, it is much more efficient than most airports in the country. Look at JFK, LGA, EWR, PHL, SFO, or ORD for example. SLC has consistently won awards for the best snow-removal process in the country and its on-time performance is one of the best in the US. On top of it, the costs of operating here are among the lowest there is and certainly the lowest among hub airports.

SLC knows they need a new terminal and they have known this for many years, but they aren't going to just build a new terminal and piss off the airlines at the same time. It will be built, but it is going to take time.
JFK, PHL, SFO, ORD, all have or are making big improvements! You do realize that they are some of the biggest and most crowded airports and yet they are doing more than SLC right? JFK has almost all new terminals. They are taking down terminal 3 at JFK and remodeling terminal 2.

It doesnt matter what JFK, LGA, PHL, etc do, SLC is competing with the airports out west like DEN, LAS, SEA, PHX for air service and passengers. All of them are much better airports than SLC. Well maybe not LAS, but soon as their new terminal is done, it will pass SLC easily.

There is a reason that Delta is choosing Seattle over SLC for trans-pacific flights and a trans-pacific int'l gateway! SLC is too small, and I already mentioned how SLC's gate situation is for large international aircraft.

I bet that when the new terminal is built, you could see new int'l flights to/from SLC to Seoul, Amsterdam, London, to going along with Paris, Mexico City, Tokyo and all the other Mexican destinations.
     
     
  #5308  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2010, 4:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Mac View Post
I was downtown taking photos for Taubman and grabbed a few of the area where the new downtown highrise is proposed.


They aren't going to tear down the small red building inbetween the Deseret News building and Bennion Jewlers for the new tower are they? That building is beautiful. Is this building on the National Register (or whatever it's called)?
     
     
  #5309  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2010, 4:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Portland Dude View Post
JFK, PHL, SFO, ORD, all have or are making big improvements! You do realize that they are some of the biggest and most crowded airports and yet they are doing more than SLC right? JFK has almost all new terminals. They are taking down terminal 3 at JFK and remodeling terminal 2.

It doesnt matter what JFK, LGA, PHL, etc do, SLC is competing with the airports out west like DEN, LAS, SEA, PHX for air service and passengers. All of them are much better airports than SLC. Well maybe not LAS, but soon as their new terminal is done, it will pass SLC easily.

There is a reason that Delta is choosing Seattle over SLC for trans-pacific flights and a trans-pacific int'l gateway! SLC is too small, and I already mentioned how SLC's gate situation is for large international aircraft.

I bet that when the new terminal is built, you could see new int'l flights to/from SLC to Seoul, Amsterdam, London, to going along with Paris, Mexico City, Tokyo and all the other Mexican destinations.
I believe you aren't understanding SkyGuy's point... SLC is definitely doing something. They just want to do it right. I'm glad they are.
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  #5310  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2010, 4:59 PM
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I think it is a common mistake on this forum that we get so excited about development and potential developments, that we ignore the complex nature of the situations. We want things built now and focus on all the positives of what could be without acknowledging that doing things faster than is prudent leads to massive tax increases, which chases away businesses and therefore jobs (California anyone?). I for one think that having a low tax burden is more important than having the cutting edge of everything. Utah is doing just fine and I don't worry about our future as long as we don't overextend ourselves in our pursuit of development.
     
     
  #5311  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2010, 5:05 PM
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A big ditto to that Wren and WeST! Better to work in tandem with the airlines wishes, especially Delta. Salt Lake has forged an outstanding alliance with Delta and the industry in general. Among other things, we certainly don't need a multi-billion dollar debt that has to be shouldered by a delicate economy or airline industry. Far better to listen to and work with the airlines, and expand at a rate that they feel comfortable with. Salt Lake has and will continue to reap the rewards of a successful Delta and SkyWest far into the future by doing exactly what Skyguy has outlined.
     
     
  #5312  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2010, 5:09 PM
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I believe you aren't understanding SkyGuy's point... SLC is definitely doing something. They just want to do it right. I'm glad they are.
I agree they need to do it right and I'm glad they are too, but it's taking so long that SLC already missed out on a great opportunity by Delta to make SLC the western gateway to Asia. If SLC would've been building or had the terminal near completion in SLC around this time and the runways extended, I think SLC would've been the Asian gateway for Delta and not Seattle International (SEA). SEA now has service to Tokyo-Narita, Beijing, Osaka, and now a strong codshare agreement with Korean Air on the Seoul-SEA route. There is also talk to bring non-stops to/from SEA on Delta to Hong Kong, Taipei, Sydney, Nagoya, Tokyo-Haneda, and Shanghai. SLC needs to get going so they don't miss out on more opportunities like this.

I think that SLC dropped the ball on this and missed a big and great opportunity with Delta. Seattle is very lucky to have Delta build up a strong Asian gateway, and I think the Delta-Alaska Airlines codshare agreement was a big reason this happened as well. But again, I think that was a opportunity missed by SLC.
     
     
  #5313  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2010, 8:40 PM
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They aren't going to tear down the small red building inbetween the Deseret News building and Bennion Jewlers for the new tower are they? That building is beautiful. Is this building on the National Register (or whatever it's called)?
From this picture it looks like it's still there:



If anyone knows, please share!
     
     
  #5314  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2010, 8:54 PM
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airport discussion on wrong thread?

I'm not sure why the discussion about the airport started here, but would you all please move that discussion over to the Salt Lake Transit Thread, please!
     
     
  #5315  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2010, 10:14 PM
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I'm not sure why the discussion about the airport started here, but would you all please move that discussion over to the Salt Lake Transit Thread, please!
Well EXCUSE ME! But I sort of assumed this thread encompassed all development.

And Really, airports, like college campuses, are cities within cities. A new terminal has more to do with a thread that would discuss public libraries rather than transit threads.

Last edited by s.p.hansen; Nov 21, 2010 at 10:58 PM.
     
     
  #5316  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2010, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by skyguy414 View Post
I tried to explain why the airport can't just snap their fingers and build the new terminal. It isn't that easy for a number of reasons. And again, the airport is well aware the current facilities are inadequate and don't accommodate the growth it would otherwise likely see. They aren't just sitting and doing nothing about it. Plans are constantly being analyzed, revised, and implemented. The airport wants a new terminal, trust me. But again, taking on a huge financial burden all at once and thus jacking up the rates on the airlines would only antagonize them. The industry is too fragile for that. The airports who have recently built new terminals are also very much in debt and have to raise their fees to cover the costs. Denver airport for example is almost $5 billion in debt. SLC airport has no debt at all. Not to mention, some of the airports saw a loss or decrease in service from the airlines because they didn't want to pay the higher costs to fly there.

SLC is doing a lot more work than people realize. They are in the process of relocating all of the deice pads to the ends of the runways so planes can de-ice right before takeoff as opposed to just after pushback which will prevent a possible 2-time deice scenario. They are also doing this because the construction of the new terminal and concourses will be built on top of where the current de-ice pads currently are. While this doesn't seem like a big project and most passengers wouldn't even notice it, it is a 2 to 3 year project, has created hundreds of jobs, and will improve efficiency and result in big financial savings to the airport and airlines when the new deice pads are up and running. There has been a lot of work done to prepare for the new terminal, but there is still much more to do.

The airport also recently added 4 additional gates to the B concourse and added jetways to all of the gates on B concourse which previously didn't have them for the Delta Connection flights, so now all gates on the B concourse have jetways and special elevators which bring passenger's gate-check carryon bags up to them next to the boarding doors. The E concourse "Y", where much of the SkyWest flights are, is currently covered but has no climate control will eventually be completely enclosed and will likely have some form of jetways on them.

While the current terminal infrastructure is outdated, for its age it is well maintained.

I don't think the whole process of flying into SLC is "a joke". Even for its current infrastructure, it is much more efficient than most airports in the country. Look at JFK, LGA, EWR, PHL, SFO, or ORD for example. SLC has consistently won awards for the best snow-removal process in the country and its on-time performance is one of the best in the US. On top of it, the costs of operating here are among the lowest there is and certainly the lowest among hub airports.

SLC knows they need a new terminal and they have known this for many years, but they aren't going to just build a new terminal and piss off the airlines at the same time. It will be built, but it is going to take time.
Thank you for your insights on the airport development. It has been totally interesting to read your posts. I just used the airport today coming back from San Fransisco over the weekend and, as usual, got my bag from the baggage claim incredibly fast. It is really amazing to think that Salt Lake Int. Airport is the only hub with no current debt. I had scarcely taken into account how much of an advantage our airport has because of its low rates. And with Delta guiding the speed of the development, I'm not really too worried about them deciding its not big enough and bailing out. And I agree this idea that there could be a merger of Dela and United isn't very well rooted in the world we live in. Another advantage for SLC that I don't think has been mentioned is the fact that Dela is beefing up their maintenance facilities and personnel in the United States and that means even more relevance for SLC which also happens to have a great maintenance facility.
     
     
  #5317  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2010, 11:13 PM
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They aren't going to tear down the small red building inbetween the Deseret News building and Bennion Jewlers for the new tower are they? That building is beautiful. Is this building on the National Register (or whatever it's called)?
No, they're not tearing that down. I think it was earlier this year or last that that building was put on the register or whatever, so it's protected.
     
     
  #5318  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2010, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by s.p.hansen View Post
Well EXCUSE ME! But I sort of assumed this thread encompassed all development.

And Really, airports, like college campuses, are cities within cities. A new terminal has more to do with a thread that would discuss public libraries rather than transit threads.
Hmmm.. airports are transit related. So, yes, it should be on the Transit Thread. And, this thread is more for downtown SLC stuff, anyways. This whole thread got bogged down with all of this airport discussion from out of nowhere. There's lots of room to talk about that stuff on the Transit thread. So, please move it there, so we can keep this thread downtown SLC related. Thanks!
     
     
  #5319  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2010, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
Hmmm.. airports are transit related. So, yes, it should be on the Transit Thread. And, this thread is more for downtown SLC stuff, anyways. This whole thread got bogged down with all of this airport discussion from out of nowhere. There's lots of room to talk about that stuff on the Transit thread. So, please move it there, so we can keep this thread downtown SLC related. Thanks!
I just don't know how you can be bitter about this. I've learned a lot from Stenar and skyguy414 because of moving the conversation about the airport here.

This thread encompasses more than downtown SLC based on my having gone through and read the entire thing before posting here and since posting here. Thus far it has covered the entire city and at times Salt Lake County and the airport is certainly in that radius.

I somehow remember seeing updates here on this thread for the new Natural History Museum and Soccer Fields.

Thanks!

Last edited by s.p.hansen; Nov 22, 2010 at 12:24 AM.
     
     
  #5320  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2010, 12:44 AM
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It's not a big deal really. This thread isn't restricted to downtown at all, so it doesn't really matter where you put it.
     
     
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