HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > General Discussion


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #21  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2007, 3:49 AM
Canadian Mind's Avatar
Canadian Mind Canadian Mind is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,921
Quote:
Originally Posted by phesto View Post
The video for this is posted on the Vancouver Sun website.

What surprises me is that the video which had been hyped by the guy who took the footage is pretty mediocre and doesn't really show when the taser was used, or any of the discussion leading up to it.

The only thing that surprised me about the footage was how long the police took to arrive at YVR. The man was clearly irate, had barricaded the international arrivals area, and was resisting police. I guarantee that at any other major airport in North America the man would have been dealt with more quickly, and more severely. And would it have helped if there had been an interpreter there? Sure, but at 1:30 am when you are acting erratic and violent in an international airport, you're probably not going to get that benefit.

It is obviously a terrible tragedy that this guy died as a result of the taser being used to subdue him, but I have personally witnessed far worse, and I don't believe any of those police involved should suffer the consequences here.

btw, the video does point to the pathetic state of security at YVR. Here a man is blocking the international arrivals gate with chairs, messing around with equipment, etc. Meanwhile a Cathay flight has landed with some 200+ passengers waiting to leave and some private security schmoe stands there and can't even move the guy without waiting 15 minutes for police? I shudder to think what the reaction time is like for potential terrorist incidents.
You've watched the video? I have aswell. took a good 4 o 5 minutes for the cops to arrive, and within about 15-20 seconds of their first contact with him, he was tasered. Didn't even really resist the cops, he just turned around and waved his arms as he walked away. ten seconds later it looks like they hit him in the lower abdomen or the legs with the taser. They then appeared to knock him to the ground before tasering him again, then one guy was on his back, one on his head, etc.

Not once did it appear to me that he was threatening the officers. ignoring them? yes. And quite frankly in a situation where I was stuck with police I didn't understand, I would ignore them too untill they brought a translator.
__________________
"you're eating chicken periods" - Vid
"I love eggs, especially the ones with runny yolks" - Me
"EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW, you're disgusting!" - Vid
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2007, 4:05 AM
mr.x's Avatar
mr.x mr.x is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 12,805
Quote:
They then appeared to knock him to the ground before tasering him again, then one guy was on his back, one on his head, etc.
Does it really take four guys to take down one tasered guy on the ground?

Not to mention, there was one guy who used his knees to pin down the guys neck. And it's been shown in studies that it's fatally dangerous to put pressure on someone's chest after they have been tasered....and even more dangerous if they are sweating, which he was.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #23  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2007, 4:11 AM
240glt's Avatar
240glt 240glt is offline
HVAC guru
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: YEG -> -> -> Nelson BC
Posts: 11,297
Quote:
Originally Posted by phesto View Post
Yeah, roll your eyes coward, everything is fine in lotusland, right ?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2007, 4:30 AM
LordMandeep LordMandeep is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,372
if the man has no weapon of any kind why the need to taser him.

Lazy ass officers, just wrestle the guy as you were trained.

As NWA said
Fuck da police...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #25  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2007, 4:35 AM
Red UM Rebel's Avatar
Red UM Rebel Red UM Rebel is offline
Go Rebels!
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Oxford
Posts: 1,400
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanhattan View Post
Yea, they will probably get a paid one week leave from the job or a parking ticket like fine for killing the guy. He should have known the key words of "Don't TASE ME BRO!" Oh well, maybe the next lifetime.
I was sooo hoping someone had not used that already
__________________
Ole Miss Rebels = looking forward to bowling
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #26  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2007, 5:04 AM
phesto phesto is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: yvr/bwi
Posts: 2,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by 240glt View Post
Yeah, roll your eyes coward, everything is fine in lotusland, right ?
It was intended as a response to your comment that you are ashamed of the RCMP. But I suppose you think they're all cowards too...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #27  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2007, 5:12 AM
agrant's Avatar
agrant agrant is offline
Cheers!
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 1,869
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #28  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2007, 10:10 AM
mr.x's Avatar
mr.x mr.x is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 12,805
Stockwell Day dismisses demands for public hearings into man's death at YVR

Doug Ward, With Files From Kelly Sinoski, Vancouver Sun; with files from CanWest News Service
Published: Friday, November 16, 2007

A graphic video of Robert Dziekanski's death after he was Tasered by police sparked outrage Thursday, and politicians called for a review of the way police use Tasers.

The video of the Polish immigrant writhing on the floor moments before his death prompted Public Security Minister Stockwell Day to tell Parliament he has asked for an examination of the use of Tasers.

"This is a tragic and grievous incident. We want to find out answers that can prevent these things from happening in the future," Day said in the House of Commons.

It's unclear what form a review would take, since Day told the Commons last month the RCMP and the Canadian Police Association were already reviewing the use of Tasers.

Canada's justice ministers, meeting in Winnipeg this week, reserved judgment on the safety of Tasers. However, the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary, which patrols parts of Newfoundland and Labrador, on Thursday suspended the use of Tasers.

Day rejected demands for public hearings into Dziekanski's death, saying that while many Canadians might find the video disturbing, several investigations were already underway.

The four RCMP officers involved in the incident were still on active duty Thursday following an internal review, said RCMP Cpl. Greg Gillis, an instructor in the use of Tasers.

Gillis said the review did not cause any concern that the officers acted punitively or outside their regular duties. If it had, he said, the officers would likely have been put on desk duty or suspended.

The video, taken by Victoria resident Paul Pritchard, was watched on evening news broadcasts throughout Canada, later on American news shows, and widely on the Internet.

The federal Liberals said public hearings are needed as part of an investigation into new national guidelines on the use of Tasers.

"A private report to the minister is unacceptable," said Liberal public safety critic Ujjal Dosanjh. "Any review or analysis must be thorough, public, prescriptive and conducted by an independent body."

NDP MP Penny Priddy said the "screams of a dying man echo throughout the country" and that Canadians want answers before more lives were lost.

"Is it standard operating procedure for the RCMP to use Tasers when there is no obvious physical threat?" she asked Day in Parliament.

Gillis said no further internal investigations will be conducted until other investigations, including one by the Commission for Public Complaints Against the RCMP, are completed.

B.C. Premier Gordon Campbell told reporters the video shows police need to re-examine how they use Tasers.

"I've seen the tape," Campbell said. "I haven't had a chance to see the whole tape. Obviously it's very disturbing to everyone and I think the important thing for us to recognize, first of all, it's a human tragedy, it's going to affect everyone that's involved in it."

B.C. Solicitor-General John Les said that "you can't watch the video without being moved emotionally."

Les said a coroner's inquest should be underway next year. He also said he was confident there is enough civilian oversight in the RCMP's investigation of the incident to ensure that it will be transparent and independent.

B.C. Attorney-General Wally Oppal said he found the video disturbing, but urged people to wait until all the evidence is available.

"Our system is based on fairness and I would want to hear what the police side of the incident is before any of us would rush to judgment," said Oppal.

NDP public safety critic Mike Farnworth called for a special prosecutor under the Crown Counsel Act. Farnworth said a special prosecutor could provide the independence and transparency required in any review of the tragic incident.

The NDP MLA said people around the world will be watching to see how the B.C. government responds to Dziekanski's death.

The video left many questions unanswered, said Farnworth, including why the four policemen who approached Dziekanski didn't physically restrain him rather than using a Taser.

Piotr Ogrodzinski, Poland's ambassador to Canada, said he was very upset by the video and that Warsaw wants to know more about a RCMP probe into the incident.

"The reaction of the RCMP officers was unsuitable to the situation. What I've seen was that Mr. Dziekanski [was] a person who was agitated, frustrated, I think terrified, but not aggressive. He was not making a gesture that he intended to fight anybody," Ogrodzinski told Reuters.

"He didn't know what to to do. In fact, he was in search [of] help. That is why it is a really very sad and deeply moving film to watch."

Dale Carr, an RCMP spokesman in Vancouver, said the officers involved in the case would testify under oath at a coroner's inquest.

But the B.C. Civil Liberties Association noted that coroner's inquests do not assess blame. "There needs to be a criminal investigation," said executive director Murray Mollard.

Simon Fraser University criminologist Neil Boyd said the video does not show what police had been told before they arrived on the scene at the airport.

"The public tends to react to criminal-justice events in a kind of tidal wave of emotion, and often very bad, unusual cases end up creating criminal justice policy. That worries me," Boyd said.

DIFFERENT VIEWS OF THE SAME INCIDENT

The release on Wednesday of a video showing Polish immigrant Robert Dziekanski being Tasered by the RCMP has allowed the public to see for itself what took place on Oct. 14 in the moments before Dziekanski's death. It also raised a number of questions. What the video shows appears to conflict at times with the RCMP's version of events, immediately following the incident. And policing experts have raised concerns that the opening moments of the second part of the three-part video, showing the fatal incident, suggest police could have handled the situation better.

0:00

WHAT THE VIDEO SHOWS: The key sequence of events begins when the video shows what appears to be four men wearing RCMP uniforms arriving in the public arrivals area and moving in Dziekanski's direction.

WHAT POLICE SAID: In its original news release on the incident, the RCMP said three police officers were involved in the incident.

19 Seconds

WHAT THE VIDEO SHOWS: Police are told by a bystander that Dziekanski doesn't speak English. As he approaches Dziekanski, one of the officers asks him, "How are you doing, sir?"

WHAT CONCERNS HAVE BEEN RAISED: Paul Kennedy, chair of the Commission for Public Complaints Against the RCMP, has said his review of the incident will look into whether or not the RCMP followed its own policies on dealing with people who can't communicate in English, and whether those policies are adequate.

37 Seconds

WHAT THE VIDEO SHOWS: Several people are seen observing the incident from the airport's public lounge. But Dziekanski and the officers appear to be entirely alone in the secure arrivals area, which is separated from everyone else by safety glass.

WHAT POLICE SAID: The RCMP has said the officers did not use pepper spray on Dziekanski because of the large number of people at the airport.

50 Seconds

WHAT THE VIDEO SHOWS: Dziekanski is shown surrounded by the officers moments before he is Tasered. There is no sign that Dziekanski rushed towards the officers, who are a few metres away, but he does appear to be holding something in his hand.

WHAT POLICE SAID: The RCMP said Dziekanski attempted to grab something off a desk when he was shot using the Taser.

WHAT CONCERNS HAVE BEEN RAISED: Michael Lyman, a policing expert at Columbia College in Missouri, said the four officers on the scene should have been able to physically restrain Dziekanski without resorting to the Taser.

"I don't even think batons or mace would have been necessary, given that there were four officers on the scene," said Lyman. The RCMP's incident-management model classifies the Taser as an "intermediate device". That means it can be used against suspects who are resisting arrest or are combative, but should not be used against those who are simply not cooperating with an officer's request. The RCMP says the Taser may also be appropriate in cases where someone is in a state of "excited delirium" and needs urgent medical attention. A report into the use of Tasers commissioned by B.C.'s Police Complaint Commissioner in 2005 recommended that Tasers should be used only against a subject who is actively resisting arrest or posing a risk to others, not someone who is simply "passively resisting."

68 Seconds

WHAT THE VIDEO SHOWS: After being Tasered by police, Dziekanski falls to the grown and flails around. Three of the officers hold him face down on the ground and handcuff him as Dziekanski struggles against them. After being handcuffed, Dziekanski gasps and moans before going silent.

WHAT CONCERNS HAVE BEEN RAISED: Donald Van Blaricom, former chief of the Bellevue, Wash. police, said police should have made Dziekanski sit up as soon as possible after he was Tasered to help him breathe normally. He said Dziekanski's resistance after being handcuffed may have been due to his inability to catch his breath. The 2005 report concluded many Taser-related deaths are likely due to the way suspects are restrained after being Tasered, rather than the Taser itself. The report recommended that, following a Taser shock, a subject should be restrained in a way that allows him to breathe easily, preferably face up.



WHO IS LOOKING INTO WHAT ASPECT OF THE DEATH

Four investigations into the death of Polish immigrant Robert Dziekanski are underway and a fifth has already been completed.

- Integrated Homicide Investigation Team (IHIT): Investigating the cause of death. This could lead to a criminal investigation and is expected to be completed before the end of this year.

- RCMP internal review: A review has been done to determine if the four officers involved in the incident acted punitively or outside their regular duties, Cpl. Greg Gillis said. No such finding was made and no further internal investigations will be conducted until judicial investigations are completed.

- The Commission for Public Complaints Against the RCMP: The commission works with the RCMP to determine the adequacy of the police response, as well as the adequacy of RCMP's investigation into the incident, commission spokesman Nelson Kalil said. The commission likely won't get fully involved in the review until an inquest is held, and an investigation into potential criminal charges has been completed.

- Coroner's inquest: Inquests are held when a person dies in police custody. The coroner's office aims to hold an inquest within 12 months of an incident, which means this one should be initiated before October 2008, coroner Jeff Dolan said. The inquest is to determine the classification of death -- accident, homicide or suicide -- and give recommendations to prevent similar situations from occurring. The length of the inquest depends on the number of witnesses to be called.

The coroner's office has already completed autopsy and toxicology reports.

- The Vancouver International Airport Authority: Review of procedures and protocols around security, translation services, responses to medical emergencies in the terminals, and methods for communicating with Canada Border Services Agency.

No timeline for completion has been set.

Kelly Sinoski, Vancouver Sun

ONLINE EXTRA

For today's developments, visit: www.vancouversun.com

TASER POLL

Most respondents disapprove of RCMP action

Reasonableness of RCMP actions during incident

Q: Regarding the Oct. 14 incident where Robert Dziekanski died shortly after being Tasered by RCMP officers at Vancouver International airport. Over all, do you think the actions of police during this incident were reasonable or not reasonable?

Approval of RCMP actions since incident

Q: Do you generallly approve or disapprove of the actions by the RCMP since the incident took place?

Seen video of incident

Q: As you may know, the video of this incident has been released to the media. Have you personally seen any of the video of this incident?


© The Vancouver Sun 2007
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #29  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2007, 1:03 PM
cornholio cornholio is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,911
having family in Europe I know this wont just go away, its actually big out there and not just in Poland. its nice that Stockwell Day said hes not going to hold a separate investigation but I think the EU and Poland will in all probability exert enough pressure to make something happen about this. I mean this was even shown on CNN, and you know how much they care about events in Canada. anyways these police officers should loose their jobs plain and simple, maybe you could tack on a small severance package or what not to help them launch a new career. in any case I say this because being a RCMP officer comes with big responsibilities and consequences, there should be zero room for error and a 100% confidence in each officer, these officers clearly failed so they should be dismissed and someone else should take their place. what is truly sad is that its not easy to become a officer and the polygraph test they give you from what I hear is pretty intensive and unforgiving and doesn't leave any room for error, however it is almost impossible to ever loose your job once you have it. now sure i might understand in being very forgiving and not punishing officers and what not because in the end its important to make sure there is no incetive for the officers to lie...to the other officers...who are investigating them...who will never release the truth to the public. but i would think that in todays world will all the cameras and technology that it would be relatively hard enough for officers to lie even if there were more serious consequences, though obviously you would not be able to have the RCMP investigate themselves(some challenges in setting this up but not impossible like some might have you believe while the benefits are enormous).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #30  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2007, 2:47 PM
240glt's Avatar
240glt 240glt is offline
HVAC guru
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: YEG -> -> -> Nelson BC
Posts: 11,297
Quote:
Originally Posted by phesto View Post
It was intended as a response to your comment that you are ashamed of the RCMP. But I suppose you think they're all cowards too...


I'm fully aware what that was a response to.

I do not think that all RCMP are cowards, but the four cops who tasered an upset, unarmed man in an empty holing area who posed no threat to them or anyone else definitely displayed all the common characteristics of cowardace. And the string of lies that the RCMP stuck to until the video was released is truly apalling.

The more I think about it the more blame should be placed sqaurely at the feet of the airport authority. Vancouver welcomes the world in 2010 indeed.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #31  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2007, 7:58 PM
Mike K.'s Avatar
Mike K. Mike K. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,141
The world's media is all over this not only because of the disgusting actions by the RCMP but because of the upcoming Olympics. Questions are being raised by the international media and international community about Vancouver's ability to deal with thousands of international arrivals at the airport when they failed to properly address legitimate concerns of one individual.

As for the police, they have a license to kill, and their use of excessive force is both despicable and outright criminal. Who's to say that the next time any one of us is involved in a confrontation where words are exchange and police arrive and use lethal force because you were frustrated and required to be physically subdued.
__________________
>>>VibrantVictoria.ca
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #32  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2007, 8:05 PM
Greco Roman Greco Roman is offline
Movin' on up
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 3,449
Isn't this thread already in the Canada section?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #33  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2007, 8:10 PM
Mike K.'s Avatar
Mike K. Mike K. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greco Roman View Post
Isn't this thread already in the Canada section?
Wasn't this thread started a month ago?
__________________
>>>VibrantVictoria.ca
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #34  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2007, 9:47 PM
mr.x's Avatar
mr.x mr.x is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 12,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike K. View Post
The world's media is all over this not only because of the disgusting actions by the RCMP but because of the upcoming Olympics. Questions are being raised by the international media and international community about Vancouver's ability to deal with thousands of international arrivals at the airport when they failed to properly address legitimate concerns of one individual.
haha, yea...was reading the Metro today and some guy from Poland made comments saying his country should boycott the 2010 Games.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #35  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2007, 10:37 PM
Mike K.'s Avatar
Mike K. Mike K. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,141
I would expect nothing less of Canadians if a Canadian was killed by Polish police under the same circumstances.

Whether we like it or not, this is an international incident that even our national politicians are shamefully downplaying (read the news of Day's decision not to hold a public inquiry). All eyes are on Vancouver and our cops stiff an innocent man who had trouble communicating in English. Wonderful.
__________________
>>>VibrantVictoria.ca
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #36  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2007, 6:09 AM
Canadian Mind's Avatar
Canadian Mind Canadian Mind is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,921
Here is the exchange I had on another forum regarding an idea I had. I know it's a bit early to think about memorials, dedications and such, but I think that in time it would be fitting:

Quote:
Canadian_Mind wrote:
I hope to save face the airport at least dedicates the portion of the airport to the mans memory.


tritium wrote:
Wow, thats a really compassionate and great idea.

Maybe to all the new immigrants that pass through to become new Canadian immigrants and add the mans name to the top??


Canadian_Mind wrote:
I was thinking maybe name the international and/or immigrations section after him, and have a memorial, including his name and picture engraved in a granite stone, and surround it with Polish artwork and cultural pieces...

However, if there was to be a memorial, I would hope the mother is allowed to choose what it looks like.

I came up with the idea after the though of what implications this could have for Canada, Vancouver, immigration, the Olympics, etc. Would be an excellent way for the airport and city as a whole to save face, especially before the Olympics. The taser incident is headline news in at least 12 different languages worldwide; plenty of the Olympics visitors are going to know they are walking through the same causeway this man died in.
__________________
"you're eating chicken periods" - Vid
"I love eggs, especially the ones with runny yolks" - Me
"EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW, you're disgusting!" - Vid
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #37  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2007, 6:49 AM
mr.x's Avatar
mr.x mr.x is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 12,805
Another taser incident in BC earlier this week:




Taser-wielding RCMP officer 'like kid with new toy,' woman says
'He couldn't wait to use it' wife claims of Mountie who shocked her husband, 68

Last Updated: Thursday, November 8, 2007 | 10:52 PM ET
CBC News

The wife of a Kelowna, B.C., man says an RCMP officer who shot her husband with a Taser acted like a "kid with a new toy."

John Peters, 68, and his wife Anne were delivering a free newspaper on Monday morning when they double-parked along a downtown Kelowna street, prompting a police car to pull up beside them.

The officer tried to write a ticket, but John Peters objected and drove off, his wife said.

Peters realized this was a bad idea, so he pulled over a block away and got out of the vehicle, she said.

After the officer arrived he jolted him two times with a Taser, John Peters said, adding that he had raised his arm to defend himself.

"I was protecting myself, because I'm blind in this eye," Peters told CBC News on Thursday. "I was protecting myself from his vicious advance."

Anne Peters said she had tried to tell the officer her husband suffers a neurological disorder and was unable to comprehend language when he's flustered.


The officer didn't listen, she said, and shocked her husband with the Taser.

"The police officer was like a kid with a new toy. He couldn't wait to use it."


"Well, I was so shocked I couldn't believe it. He tried to fight him off, right? But he Tasered him anyways — twice."

Kelowna RCMP spokesman Sgt. Terry McLachlan said the Peters have not filed a formal complaint, but the superintendent has ordered a review of the incident.

"It's prudent on his part to order an administrative review to make sure the policy was conformed with, and there was proper usage," McLachlan said on Thursday.

John Peters is facing three charges, including resisting arrest and obstructing and assaulting a police officer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #38  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2007, 6:32 PM
Mike K.'s Avatar
Mike K. Mike K. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,141
Quote:
I came up with the idea after the though of what implications this could have for Canada, Vancouver, immigration, the Olympics, etc. Would be an excellent way for the airport and city as a whole to save face, especially before the Olympics. The taser incident is headline news in at least 12 different languages worldwide; plenty of the Olympics visitors are going to know they are walking through the same causeway this man died in.
I think naming the international terminal or some major component of the airport after the man is a wonderful idea, but I don't know how the airport would feel about prolonging the incident through a memorial of that kind. I can see them building a statue or a plaque, or something to that effect, though.
__________________
>>>VibrantVictoria.ca
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #39  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2007, 9:33 PM
mr.x's Avatar
mr.x mr.x is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 12,805
Taser Not To Be Used Repeatedly
'Excited Delirium'; 2005 report warns against pinning subject

Katie Rook, with files from David Carrigg and Jennifer Saltman, CanWest News Service, National Post, with files from CanWest News Service
Published: Saturday, November 17, 2007

Four RCMP officers involved in the Taser death of Robert Dziekanski appear to have breached recommendations on how the weapon should be used.

A 2005 report -- The Taser Technology Review Report -- by the B.C. Police Complaints Commissioner listed a number of key safety recommendations for the use of a Taser.

However, a video of the death of Mr. Dziekanski at the Vancouver International Airport on Oct. 14 suggests they were not followed.

Chief among the recommendations were that Tasers should not be used against someone who is "passively resisting"; that police should not use the Taser multiple times; and that after a Taser shock, the subject should be restrained in a way that allows him to breathe easily.

Officers, in dealing with the 40-year-old Polish man, do not appear to have followed the guidelines.

The report suggests officers approach such a suspect according to a well-thought-out plan.

"Where individuals are contained in a room, officers should use the time to formulate a plan for entry and restraint that allows them to immediately turn the person over to ambulance personnel," the report says.

It goes on to emphasize such precautions are necessary, especially if the subject appears to be suffering from a state of excited delirium -- a condition that may be characterized by such behaviour as a person "running through traffic or otherwise placing themselves and others at risk and would have to be restrained in any event."

It is not known whether Mr. Dziekanski was suffering from excited delirium.

The report states that multiple Taser shocks may have a detrimental effect on a person's pH, carbon dioxide levels and lactate levels.

"Although multiple applications may be tactically required, particularly in remote areas where back-up is distant or unavailable, the risks associated should be included in an officer's decision-making process," the report says.

The video shows Mr. Dziekanski being shocked at least twice.

The report suggests that officers may jeopardize a suspect's ability to breathe if a great deal of weight is placed on the shoulders and back for a long period of time.

The video of Mr. Dziekanski's death shows him screaming on the ground and being restrained by at least one officer who is over him.

It is not known what caused Mr. Dziekanski's death, but his altercation with RCMP has stirred worldwide debate about police use of Taser guns.

Municipal police forces in B.C.'s Lower Mainland have dramatically increased their use of the Taser over the past two years, deploying it 57% more often in 2006 than in 2005, according to statistics compiled by the provincial government.

The Mounties have a national database that collects figures on use of the Taser by its officers, but its definition of use includes cases where the weapon was drawn but not activated.

Over the past two years, the RCMP in B.C. reported 914 such uses of the Taser, but the force was unable to break that figure down by detachment or by year.

In 2006, the Lower Mainland's six municipal forces deployed the Taser a total of 152 times, according to figures collected by the Police Services Division. That is up from 97 deployments in 2005.

Inspector Dave Jones, of New Westminster Police, a force that saw Taser use tripled, from just nine cases in 2005 to 29 in 2006, said his department has made a conscious effort in recent years to purchase more Tasers, and train more officers in their use.

The force's inventory of Tasers has grown to 14 from three a few years ago, he said.

And while Taser training used to be a specialized skill, Insp. Jones said the training is now offered to any officer who wants it.

Mr. Dziekanski's death has prompted those with knowledge of Tasers to consider the appropriateness of the officers' response.

Donald Van Blaricom, former chief of the Bellevue, Wash., police, said the officers should have made Mr. Dziekanski sit up as soon as possible after he was Tasered.

"He's down on the floor for an awful long time, and it appears that they are holding him down when he is in handcuffs because he is struggling."

Mr. Van Blaricom said the video appears to show a "vicious cycle" in which the more Mr. Dziekanski was restrained on the floor, the more he physically resisted, prompting the police to use even more force, until he stopped breathing.

Often the cause of death is cardiac arrest or asphyxia, in which the person builds up so much lactic acid that they can't breathe any longer, Mr. Van Blaricom said.

Taser-related deaths do not stem from the electrical voltage carried by the electric-control weapon but from the exhausting physical struggle that follows, he said.

Using the Taser was a reasonable option for police given that they could not communicate with him because of the apparent language barrier, he said. However, Mr. Van Blaricom did fault the police for using the Taser too quickly.

"They were able to get quite close to him, and he wasn't being aggressive towards them."

His mother, Zofia Cisowski, says the video images haunt her. She can't sleep. She can't drive a car. She can't even turn on the television.

"I am so mad," she said. "That is no good, but I am so mad at what I saw."

A memorial for Mr. Dziekanski is to be held today at a Kamloops Funeral home.

2005 B.C. TASER REPORT

RECOMMENDATION

Tasers should be used only against a subject who is actively resisting arrest or posing a risk to others, not someone who is "passively resisting."

BUT AT VANCOUVER AIRPORT

Robert Dziekanski, who did not speak English, did not appear to be resisting, and there were no other people in the area who could be hurt by his actions.

RECOMMENDATION

Officers should avoid shocking a subject multiple times.

BUT AT VANCOUVER AIRPORT

Mr. Dziekanski was shocked twice within a matter of seconds.

RECOMMENDATION

Following a Taser shock, a subject should be restrained in a way that allows him to breathe easily.

BUT AT VANCOUVER AIRPORT

At one point, four officers were on top of Mr. Dziekanski. Two officers knelt with their full weight on his neck and back.

RECOMMENDATION

"A number of force technologies, including the Taser ... have been described as 'less lethal' ?We believe this terminology has inadvertently created a mindset among users and the public that these weapons can never have lethal effects."









Police agencies, B.C. to review use of tasers

IAN BAILEY
From Saturday's globe and Mail
November 17, 2007 at 1:26 AM EST

VANCOUVER — Police agencies and British Columbia's solicitor-general yesterday announced reviews of the use of tasers amid an intense international controversy over the death of a Polish immigrant.

“As you quite often see in these kinds of public-policy debates, sometimes an incident like this has a real crystallizing effect,” B.C. Solicitor-General John Les said in an interview.

The intensity of the debate over the death of Robert Dziekanski, a 40-year-old construction worker who had come to Canada to live with his mother in Kamloops, went global this week with the broadcast of video footage of his last moments on CNN and the BBC and posted on YouTube.

In Ottawa, the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police announced that the Canadian Police Research Centre will review taser use, and do new research on the weapons, known as conducted energy devices. The statement announcing the move did not refer to Mr. Dziekanski.

“A large body of research already exists on conducted energy devices, and while CEDS have a solid track record for safety, CED-related incidents that involve injury or death are an obvious concern for law-enforcement personnel and the public alike,” Steve Chabot, deputy director general of the Sûreté du Québec and president of the police chiefs' association, said in the statement.

Mr. Chabot said the police research centre was being asked to update a 2005 report, to study individuals resisting arrest and to consider ways of establishing a national approach to evaluating CED technology and information-sharing.

The research is to include a year-long study, with data collected in several Canadian cities, on links between characteristics of people subject to police restraint, methods of restraint and risks of death.

In Vancouver, Mr. Les said he has asked the B.C. Association of Chiefs of Police to review the appropriate use of tasers when it meets in Victoria next week.

“I am not restricting the discussion to a moratorium or not,” he said. “These chiefs will be all highly aware of the current context in British Columbia, and I want their input. … If I recklessly go and put forward public policy, I could well be precipitating some other dangerous situations.”

The NDP opposition in B.C. has called for a temporary moratorium on taser use, pending a review.

NDP Leader Carole James cited 17 taser-related deaths across Canada. “A review will not only provide clarity and confidence to the public, it will give police the certainty they need about the training and application of this tool,” she said in a statement.

Alberta announced a review this week. And the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary suspended the use of tasers because of the incident involving Mr. Dziekanski.

Poland's ambassador to Canada yesterday said a review seemed like a reasonable idea.

“I am not trying to be involved in internal Canadian policies, but if I am informed that provinces are going ahead with a review, then of course I am happy because it goes in a direction that I expect,” Piotr Ogrodzinski said yesterday from Ottawa.

Several probes are already in the works. A coroner's inquest is set to begin next year, and the Integrated Homicide Investigation Team - a specialized police unit in the Vancouver region - is looking into Mr. Dziekanski's death. The Commission for Public Complaints against the RCMP has also taken an interest, and federal Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day has launched a review of taser use.

“People need to see there are a number of investigations in place, that we're very serious about seeing the types of restraints in the application of tasers, that we would never see an incident like this again,” Mr. Day said in Ottawa.






And it isn't just Canada that's sparking reviews of the use of tasers, it's happening around the world including Australia and New Zealand.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #40  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2007, 6:50 AM
Mike K.'s Avatar
Mike K. Mike K. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,141
Victoria's police force just spent $40,000 reviewing tasers.

These reviews are a farce if we're going to review them again and again. Tasers are deadly weapons that are used too often because they are marketed as non-lethal substitutes for guns. Cops now reach for their tasers as though they're batons regardless of their training or of policies on their use.
__________________
>>>VibrantVictoria.ca
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > General Discussion
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 8:43 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.