Region-Wide Tolling

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by libtard

Its honestly disturbing that people with this mindset exist. What happened to traditional family values? Oh wait the atomic family is evil

Really? You think that endless growth is a realistic option and that resources and geography are infinite? If our population growth doesn't slow on its own then at some point reality is going to step in and do it for us. Not in our lifetimes, of course, but do you really want to advocate for a world where our children, grandchildren or further descendants might face those kinds of existential threats? The word "evil" might be used by some to describe such an attitude.

I'm not advocating that we force anyone to do something they don't want. Reduction in population growth is a pretty standard feature of societies that have achieved a high standard of living. Canada's population would be falling if it weren't for our generous immigration policies.

My point is that as this kind of change spreads across the world of its own accord growth will naturally slow. Our economic systems aren't designed for that change - so it's going to come as a shock.

[s211]

Originally Posted by libtard

Its honestly disturbing that people with this mindset exist. What happened to traditional family values? Oh wait the atomic family is evil

Come now, if David Suzuki supports massive depopulation, how can it be wrong?

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

this is horribly off-topic, but since we are talking about it. of course depopulation is necessary. this planet cant sustain 7+ billion people. realistically only ~4 billion is fully sustainable. but when you look at population growth, most is in 3rd world countries when you don't count for foreign immigration into 1st world countries from 2nd, and 3rd world countries.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

People don't do pleasure trips during rush hour, that's completely crazy.

Well I think they do. It is the only explanation for the increase on Hwy #1. The Pattullo is just as jammed as before. The Lougheed traffic hasn't changed. Transit riders didn't instantly decide to drive to work. The 555 is just as packed. It is mostly people going for a ride on the free bridge, not going to work. It is busy all day long now, well after the morning go-to-work-rush.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

Well I think they do. It is the only explanation for the increase on Hwy #1.

No it's not. You need to read up on induced demand.

Anyone who has seen lineups when some company offers a free giveaway intuitively understands the concept of induced demand. Most of the people in those lineups wouldn't pay for the product, or at least they sure as heck wouldn't be standing in a lineup like that to pay the regular price for it.

Roads without tolls are the traffic equivalent of a "free giveaway".

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

Well I think they do. It is the only explanation for the increase on Hwy #1. The Pattullo is just as jammed as before. The Lougheed traffic hasn't changed. Transit riders didn't instantly decide to drive to work. The 555 is just as packed. It is mostly people going for a ride on the free bridge, not going to work. It is busy all day long now, well after the morning go-to-work-rush.

The other thought on the increased number of vehicles crossing the port mann. Is that now there are less people care pooling thus more single occupancy vehicles.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by cabotp

The other thought on the increased number of vehicles crossing the port mann. Is that now there are less people care pooling thus more single occupancy vehicles.

Few points:

-There was incentive to carpool but no more
-SFU has reported a surge of motorists. Parking lots are jam packed even until the later afternoon. Students SOF are driving.
-North Shore has seen a massive surge of traffic-especially on sunny days as the instagram crowd flock to the popular spot
-Spots like Buntzen Lake saw parking lots reach capacity at 7am the first week of Sept which is unheard of
-Too many affluent immigrants do not believe on carsharing or carpooling. It is stigmatized as being poorer or lesser...my friends family will all drive seprate vehicles even if they are going to the same function.This is problematic as many are trying to settle in Guildford and Langley

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

The Pattullo is just as jammed as before.

Actually traffic over the Pattullo is down 11%, and anecdotally large truck traffic is substantially reduced as well. But do go on with how traffic on the Pattullo is just as bad as it was before.

[Smooth]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Actually traffic over the Pattullo is down 11%, and anecdotally large truck traffic is substantially reduced as well. But do go on with how traffic on the Pattullo is just as bad as it was before.

It wouldn't surprise me if the traffic reduction is mainly at off-peak hours. I would assume that the majority of the people that were willing to drive the long way to save paying the toll would have done so when they knew it wouldn't significantly delay them.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Smooth

It wouldn't surprise me if the traffic reduction is mainly at off-peak hours. I would assume that the majority of the people that were willing to drive the long way to save paying the toll would have done so when they knew it wouldn't significantly delay them.

Anecdotally traffic on Royal Avenue traffic is down during rush hour. Every day I cross Royal during rush hour and it's nowhere near as busy as it was before there the tolls came off the Port Mann.

[Trainguy]

If people are stupid enough to slog through bumper to bumper traffic wasting gas and time, and not go a different way, then they deserve what they get.

Mobility pricing no matter how you slice it, is just another toll. I can't see the NDP taking one off and then adding another back on. Maybe they should double or triple the ICBC rates. That will take a bunch of cars off the road, especially for drivers with bad records.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

If people are stupid enough to slog through bumper to bumper traffic wasting gas and time, and not go a different way, then they deserve what they get.

Mobility pricing no matter how you slice it, is just another toll. I can't see the NDP taking one off and then adding another back on. Maybe they should double or triple the ICBC rates. That will take a bunch of cars off the road, especially for drivers with bad records.

If all the bridges had been tolled I'm quite certain the NDP would not have removed those tolls. They were removed because it was unfair to only toll those bridges and not toll as example the pitt river bridge. Even though all those bridges were built at roughly the same time.

An increase in ICBC rates is just another hidden cost. It doesn't make people stop to think that maybe they should not take that trip or maybe they should plan to shop closer to home.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by cabotp

If all the bridges had been tolled I'm quite certain the NDP would not have removed those tolls. They were removed because it was unfair to only toll those bridges and not toll as example the pitt river bridge. Even though all those bridges were built at roughly the same time.

An increase in ICBC rates is just another hidden cost. It doesn't make people stop to think that maybe they should not take that trip or maybe they should plan to shop closer to home.

Let's be real for a second...They didn't act on an ethical dilemma but SOLELY removed tolls because it won them ridings SOF.

The end result? People are already beginning to complain about being backed up to 152nd and seeing +30min being tacked onto their commute on weekdays. Stop-and-go traffic begins at 5:45am and sometimes last through the mid-morning while it's become a complete gongshow at other periods due to all the accidents. Congestion is sometimes observed even past 8pm now.

There's more readily available land SOF. With the tolls removed, more people are increasingly being enticed to move out there. It may have seemed "unfair" but it was required to prevent unfettered growth.

Those morons should have promised to drop tolls to $1 outside of rushhour and made a more enticing monthly pass alternative...except they were too fiscally irresponsible (as usual) and clearly didn't bother to research the repercussions of ridding the tolls.

Something will have to be done within the next 5 years as I guarantee congestion will really max out by then. Either they will be forced to bring back the tolls or implement road pricing. But I have a feeling traffic/road congestion will be the hot topic in the 2021 election. Just wait, there's absolutely nothing going ahead right now...

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by cabotp

If all the bridges had been tolled I'm quite certain the NDP would not have removed those tolls. They were removed because it was unfair to only toll those bridges and not toll as example the pitt river bridge. Even though all those bridges were built at roughly the same time

incorrect, they removed them so they could get elected by using bad planning, bad ideas, but pandering to the people. they did the opposite of any good decision; they wanted to get elected. and even then, they still didn't beat the Liberals.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by cabotp

If all the bridges had been tolled I'm quite certain the NDP would not have removed those tolls. They were removed because it was unfair to only toll those bridges and not toll as example the pitt river bridge. Even though all those bridges were built at roughly the same time.

An increase in ICBC rates is just another hidden cost. It doesn't make people stop to think that maybe they should not take that trip or maybe they should plan to shop closer to home.

Increasing ICBC rates will take cars off the road because people won't be able to afford to insure them and will have to take transit.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

Increasing ICBC rates will take cars off the road because people won't be able to afford to insure them and will have to take transit.

That raises an important benefit of a per-km road pricing toll: it lets the less well-off continue to use a car for the trips where it's worth to them to pay the fee, compared to a non trip-specific tax like a vehicle levy which might prevent those people from using a car altogether.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

That raises an important benefit of a per-km road pricing toll: it lets the less well-off continue to use a car for the trips where it's worth to them to pay the fee, compared to a non trip-specific tax like a vehicle levy which might prevent those people from using a car altogether.

1) Luxury car tax + increase insurance for more expensive cars. People will still buy high end Audi's and BMW's
2) Stop insuring high-end luxury cars
3) Force all municipalities to begin charging the hell out of parking. Force North Vancouver to add a $10 fee for all-day parking at Lynn Canyon, Capilano and Deep Cove.
4) Distance-based per-km road pricing
5) If we use a GPS-linked system- then really increase the per-km in downtown Vancouver.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by s211

Come now, if David Suzuki supports massive depopulation, how can it be wrong?

Why doesn't he set a good example and remove himself from the earth to show the rest of us how its done. I hear Mars is great this time of year and is in serious need of a hypocrite up there.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

Why doesn't he set a good example and remove himself from the earth to show the rest of us how its done. I hear Mars is great this time of year and is in serious need of a hypocrite up there.

That's called suicide, and is frowned upon by most societies. The problem isn't the existing population so much as an unsustainable birth rate, even in some first world countries; for that, we've got things like the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement.

Of course, simpler, less-radical measures such as birth control, sex ed, or a Two Child Policy would suffice.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

they still didn't beat the Liberals.

The NDP massacred the BC Liberals in Metro Vancouver, where people are being nickel and dimed to death.