Palm Trees of Canada

[billy corgan]

Toronto6A6B,

There is a fairly large group of us here in Niagara/Hamilton that grow hardy tropicals. Everything from Waggy/Windmill Palms to southern evergreen magnolias. If you want I can give you some links to websites and forums that can help you if your interested in getting started in the hobby.

Pictures from November





Pics from friends house in Dundas after last weeks snowfall

[Toronto6A6B]

Hi Billy,

Thanks for more pictures and please post the links you mentioned.

Could you let us know how you or your friends protect them over the winter if ANY ? And HOW ?

I am trying to collect more info in this thread so that one day we will see mature windmill palms in front of the Botanical Garden in Niagara Falls or along some selected tourist locations in Niagara Falls.

I think Niagara Falls stands the best chance of getting my proposed pilot project started in terms of finance and climate/micro climate (7a) b/c of tourism $ and the 7a micro climate. I think if tax payers in the 7a regions, especially Niagara Falls push for it, one day we will hear "Wow, Ontario has mature windmill palms, it's so subtropical to me".

Having said that, if tax payers don't do anything (push for palms), The Parks Department will never take any step, they simply sit back and relax ...

[Toronto6A6B]

Dundas is the same zone as Toronto I think.

[subtropicalbc]

Victoria is 9b.

[Nicko999]

Originally Posted by subtropicalbc

Victoria is 9b.

Let's not exagerate... even with the weather stations in the city, the city is 8b at best.

Maybe Phyllis Street is 9a but that's the mildest station out there.

[Toronto6A6B]

Depending on which hardiness zones maps you are using ... But according to the following link (obviously not the Gov of Canada which is very conservative):
http://www.plantmaps.com/interactive...diness-map.php

Coastal area in Victoria or East of Victoria is 9b such as Oak Bay and area (Victoria is 9a according to the above link), some small islands near Victoria are also 9b, part of western coastal area of Van Is is also 9b.

But if one goes by the government's website, the "mildest" is only 8a:
http://atlas.nrcan.gc.ca/site/englis...ada/planthardi

It's such a wide gap between private website and gov website.

[Toronto6A6B]

A second link that indicates downtown Toronto is 6b:
http://www.plantmaps.com/interactive...diness-map.php

Zoom in and you will see it.

According to this link (more details and interactive):
(1) 6b: Downtown Toronto, coastal area from Scarborough to Mississauga/Oakville, Oakville/Burlington to just before St Catharines.
(2) 6b: This link indicates Windsor/SW Ontario is 6b
(3) 7a: St Catharines/Niagara region is still the warmest

[Toronto6A6B]

According to Toronto Gardens:
http://torontogardens.blogspot.ca/20...-and-zone.html

Quote:
Within the GTA (Note: Greater Toronto Area), the specifics of your landscape can push you higher or lower. Close to Lake Ontario, you're more likely to be Zone 6b and might have a microclimate (a pocket that is a zone unto itself) that's Zone 7 . In a more exposed situation, or farther from the lake, you might be Canadian Zone 5a or 5b

Zone 7:
7a −17.8 °C (0 °F) −15 °C (5 °F)
7b −15 °C (5 °F) −12.2 °C (10 °F)

Are Torontonians ready for outdoor Windmill palms

[Nightsky]

Palms and Canada seems like a contradiction, but is obviously not.
The ones in Vancouver looks like there are in the southern hemisphere.

[subtropicalbc]

Originally Posted by Nicko999

Let's not exagerate... even with the weather stations in the city, the city is 8b at best.

Maybe Phyllis Street is 9a but that's the mildest station out there.

Actually the average low temp is around 25º.

[someone123]

There are different standards for hardiness zones. The USDA standard is based only on average annual low temperature. One problem with that is that you might have an area prone to wider temperature swings where, say, 2 out of 3 years it goes to -20 and 1 out of 3 it goes to -30 and will kill a bunch of stuff that could survive the -23 average. I think that's actually quite common. There are lots of weather stations that average maybe 1 day of -20 per year but in practice that means that they might get a blast of -20 for a few days every few years. It doesn't mean that you get exactly one -20 night per year or that the average annual low is -20.

The Canadian standard includes a lot of other factors like wind and heat; in some cases I think those are more relevant to, say, a farm than a protected garden. Different plants vary anyway in terms of how much rain or heat they like.

It's also still common to see maps based on 1971-2000 data, which is colder in a lot of places than what you can reasonably expect now. I checked one station and its average high (not average annual low) from 1998-2012 was about 1 degree warmer than 1971-2000.

[subtropicalbc]

There is a huge difference...

[Toronto6A6B]

Originally Posted by someone123

There are different standards for hardiness zones. The USDA standard is based only on average annual low temperature. One problem with that is that you might have an area prone to wider temperature swings where, say, 2 out of 3 years it goes to -20 and 1 out of 3 it goes to -30 and will kill a bunch of stuff that could survive the -23 average. I think that's actually quite common. There are lots of weather stations that average maybe 1 day of -20 per year but in practice that means that they might get a blast of -20 for a few days every few years. It doesn't mean that you get exactly one -20 night per year or that the average annual low is -20.

The Canadian standard includes a lot of other factors like wind and heat; in some cases I think those are more relevant to, say, a farm than a protected garden. Different plants vary anyway in terms of how much rain or heat they like.

It's also still common to see maps based on 1971-2000 data, which is colder in a lot of places than what you can reasonably expect now. I checked one station and its average high (not average annual low) from 1998-2012 was about 1 degree warmer than 1971-2000.

I realized the different methods used between Canada and the US from the Gov of Canada's website but it (gov of Canada) offers no further explanation as to WHY and WHAT the implications are.

Could you or someone elaborate ?

[Toronto6A6B]

Originally Posted by subtropicalbc

There is a huge difference...

Please elaborate ...

[jodelli]

Originally Posted by subtropicalbc

My suggestion is to move to Victoria

I would like to move back there, but Cascadia Pt2 makes me a little nervous

Seriously though I might make it as far as the Lower Mainland this coming year and get in a few photos.

[vinny_77]

Palm Trees in Canada, now that's a rarity.

[subtropicalbc]

Between 1999-2012 its huge i made some calculations for different stations I can post.

[zeroyxp]

[phillyskyline]

The landscaping in these pics are amazing. I love the beautiful flowers and hard scraping. Nice job!

[SpongeG]

in 2008/2009 winter we had a larger than normal cold spell and snowfall - my mom's garden lost a few plants that had been growing for a number of years - the spell couldn't have lasted more than two weeks - anything longer and more would be lost, that was pretty rare



happy to be back in the LM its so nice and green must get out and see some plants