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  #41  
Old Posted Nov 4, 2006, 8:14 PM
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^Completely common misconception. Most architects (including myself) suck at math. Engineers on the other hand...

I minored in General Engineering while at ASU so I actually understand a little bit about it (at least more than most architects). Oddly enough I've also designed 8 parking garages (though at the moment only 1 is completed - a 5 story 1,000 car behemoth on 14th Street in Tempe).

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled thread.....
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  #42  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2006, 4:22 AM
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Thank you Plinko, having studied a bit of engineering myself (mechanical though), I get what you are saying. It still seems possible to me to build on top of it though, if it is not the top floor supporting the load. What I mean is, wouldn't it be possible to enlarge some of the pillars in and around the garage using those as a pier or pylon type foundation? Basically the garage would be supporting nothing, but the pillars going through it would, and above the top floor of the current garage, there would be new beams with the proper load rating. I don't know, I have never built anything even close to that size, and even the houses I have have been designed and engineered by someone other than me, so it is all just a guess on my part.
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  #43  
Old Posted Nov 11, 2006, 6:34 AM
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Question Any News???

I haven't found any recent news on Cityscape. Has anyone heard anything of late? The last posted news story on the Cityscape site is from 10-13. It would be nice to get an update as to how things are progressing.
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  #44  
Old Posted Nov 12, 2006, 7:57 PM
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WOW, Look What's Around the Park!

I recently posted Patriot's Square Park to the "What's the Most Shameful Monstrocity in Your City..." thread:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show....php?p=2447367

I have been so focussed on what could be done with the hideous brick-oven of a park that I forgot the treasures that surround it.

As I looked for photos to add to the post I noticed that the surroundings of the park are arguably the most beautiful in DT Phoenix. There are the Luhrs Building and Luhrs Tower to the south, the historic City Hall to the west, the sleek/classy Renaissance Center to the north and whatever Cityscape will grace us with when built to the east. I think the redesigned park calls for some REFLECTING POOLS! Take a look:






Last edited by JimInCal; Nov 13, 2006 at 9:28 PM.
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  #45  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2006, 10:55 AM
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The buildings surrounding the park are wonderful!
I do hope this gets eccentuated (sp?) with the redesign...
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  #46  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2006, 8:24 PM
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An email I received from John Bacon on the status of everything...

"We are currently working through the public input process with the Parks Board on the re-deign of Patriots Park. There are a series of public meetings that will be held during the next few months. I would encourage you to participate in these if you are available. We hope to be able to announce the dates/locations very soon.

We continue to talk to a targeted group of retailers, but have no plans for additional announcements at this time.

Progress continues on the design of the parking garage.

We hope to have additional updates on the Web site soon.

Thanks."
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  #47  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2006, 10:27 PM
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This was posted recently by ArtDecoFan on the Phoenix Development thread:


CityScape Boutique Hotel
________________________________________

This is the boutique hotel chain that the RED Development team plans to bring to CityScape:
Quote:
TWELVE Hotels & Residences
http://www.twelvehotels.com/Home.do

Welcome to a boutique hotel experience like no other: the experience of living in a luxury urban condominium without paying luxury hotel rates. At your fingertips is everything to make your stay perfect, the comforts of home with the excitement of being away from home. Our variable-touch service allows you to customize your stay by choosing to interact with our highly trained & professional staff or by requesting services on line all from the comforts of your suite. Service, comfort and choice. TWELVE offers the ultimate hotel experience.

About Us

TWELVE Hotels and Residences combines a premier boutique hotel with upscale urban condominiums, offering condominium homes at attractive price points and hotel suites at business rates. The coexistence of hotel and condominium creates synergies in amenities and services that are seldom found outside the luxury tier. The company was established in 2004, under the umbrella of Novare Group Holdings, LLC, a leading developer of high-rise condominiums in several US markets.

TWELVE brings together a team of accomplished executives with combined decades of history in the lodging and hospitality industry and broad experience gained across several hotel brands. The strong and multi-faceted background of our management creates a knowledge base that ensures that our guests will find at TWELVE Hotels the comfort, convenience and service they seek.


Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by vertex
Nothing on their website talks about building in Cityscape. What's your source?

learn to read. All of the CityScape info states that they want to bring 12 into the development.

To be honest, I didn't even know about TWELVE Hotels until a couple weeks ago when the owners of Orpheum Lofts were invited to a private mixer with the development team.

A couple other interesting notes that the developers shared with us...

They are in discussions to anchor the retail with a Barneys New York store. It appears Barneys is interested in locating at an urban retail environment in downtown Phoenix.

Also, they would love to have an AJ's Bistro outdoor cafe spilling out onto the new redesigned park. They discussed how popular the AJ's Bistro (that kind of spills out onto the parking lot) is at the Central and Camelback location and that it would be great to create that kind of atmosphere downtown at the park.



Pretty cool news. Sounds like the braintrust for Cityscape is still hamering away.
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  #48  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2006, 6:23 PM
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Visited PS Park Yesterday

In town this week, visiting the family for Thanksgiving and went DT to take a bunch of pics to share later. I crisscrossed Patriot's Square Park to get some good shots of the surrounding buildings that are so great. The park looked horrible...bald areas where grass should be, non-functioning fountains in waterless basins, the odor of urine throughout and at least 20 transients sleeping, sitting with dazed looks or milling slowly about. It was truly depressing. I can't wait for this thing to be leveled. I wonder what will happen to the transient population there. What an awful way to live. I can't imagine if $billion is invested in Cityscape that the city and developers will allow the public areas to decline like the park has. I read a recent article that interviewed the architect of the park. He was defending it and said that it still worked as intended as a grand civic gathering place...yah, for the down-on-their luck and mentally unstable homeless. I couldn't see holding any kind of rally, art show or concert-in-the park as the stench was nausiating. Sorry to be such a downer but this was eyeopening and, I thought, important to share. This is great area of DT and a project like Cityscape would transform it in many ways. Maybe the bail-bonds place in the Luhs Tower will become a nice sidewalk cafe once Cityscape becomes a reality. Here's hoping for much greater things
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  #49  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2006, 7:11 PM
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I've noticed everything you mentioned in your post JimInCal. I won't even use the PSP garage anymore (even with it's proximity to USAirway Center and Chase Field) because of those reasons.

I encourage everyone to post some of your thoughts on the Cityscape website (www.downtownphoenixrising.org , i believe) and to sign up on the support list.
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  #50  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2006, 12:38 AM
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^ It could have worked, if the City had actually maintained it. Imagine a towering tree in every single one of the planters "grown together" as had been originally envisioned.

That the PSP garage leaked like a sieve and the park was built preceding one of Phoenix's worst recessions was its major reason for failure. When they built the thing, it worked quite well for a while--light shows, music events, but as money dried up so too did the park. They overseeded the lawns, cut back on programming, closed the bathrooms, and eventually the trees died off and it became the brick oven it is today.

After numerous sunday rallies at that park, believe it or not, I started to actually appreciate the design for what it tried to accomplish. But the overuse of circular forms--intended as the architect put it to "break up the grid" and its overall understatedness made it seem more like an anachronistic incarnate of a '60s acid trip than a true central square.

I can only hope that the new PSP is actually maintained, funded, and visited. PSP was originally envisioned to solve the problems at the "zeroblock"--homeless amidst the pawnshops. The pawnshops are gone, yet, the homeless remain. Hopefully they might actually move on with yet another version.

Some images in memoriam
















Last edited by combusean; Nov 23, 2006 at 2:40 AM.
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  #51  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2006, 3:28 AM
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I agree with Combusean. Nothing wrong with the park that maintenance funds and the occasional police presence wouldn't cure. I kinda like the look of it and if the trees were mature it would make a huge impact. If this were in my neighborhood in lower downtown Denver it would be overrun with dog-walkers and would still smell like urine. Seriously, if enough people lived near this place your problems would be solved (people become involved once they consider a place "their" neighborhood). It's like Iraq - you can't conquer it with air power alone , you have to have boots on the ground.
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  #52  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2006, 3:53 AM
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Ditto. Trees planted any number of years in the recovery since the recession could have made PSP and the rest of downtown infinitely more hospitable than they are now.

The City understands this need, no doubt, but it seems there is no medium between going out with a jackhammer tomorrow vs having an extensive, expensive public process that might in many years transform Phoenix's desperately obsolete streets and sidewalks vis a vis 2nd Avenue--like they can't take a walk down ANY downtown street to know that it needs shade, yet Urban Form is taking two years to do exactly that.

Block by block, step by step. Hopefully CityScape will bring us three of both closer to that elusive ideal.

Last edited by combusean; Nov 23, 2006 at 3:59 AM.
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  #53  
Old Posted Nov 23, 2006, 4:18 PM
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Even with mature trees and better maintenance, PSP is still a brick oven. Not a very good idea in Phoenix, AZ.
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  #54  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2006, 8:08 AM
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RED Development LLC hired Omaha, Neb.-based Bozell as the advertising agency for its $900 million multiuse CityScape project in downtown Phoenix.
Working with Bozell's Scottsdale office, the CityScape developers have directed the agency to educate retailers and restaurant owners outside the Valley about the Phoenix market in general and the downtown specifically.
CityScape is a proposed four-tower project with residential, office, retail and hotel components spanning First Avenue to the west, Second Street to the east, Washington Street to the north and Jefferson Street to the south.
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  #55  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2006, 3:24 AM
Edifice Edifice is offline
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Any Update on Building Height

I have read several posts regarding the height of some of the CityScape buildings. Most mention a 400' limit and several posters have suggested sending emails to the developers to make a plea for an "iconic" type of building or at least to consider increasing height on one or two towers to 500 feet. Is there any news to report on this?
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  #56  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2006, 1:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edifice
Most mention a 400' limit and several posters have suggested sending emails to the developers to make a plea for an "iconic" type of building or at least to consider increasing height on one or two towers to 500 feet. Is there any news to report on this?
If I'm not mistaken, I believe that the zoning height in that block is 550ft. Can someone back me up on this, I don't have the time to look at the zoning ordinances this evening.
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  #57  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2006, 2:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundevilgrad
If I'm not mistaken, I believe that the zoning height in that block is 550ft. Can someone back me up on this ...


Sean and I have both posted this before in other threads, but it should be reposted in this one as well for those who haven't seen it. It gives a good idea of particular height limits allowed for new buildings in the immediate downtown area (* sea-level subtracted):
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  #58  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2006, 3:01 AM
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But What is the Elevation?

I just spent 40 minutes trying to find the specific elevation for this area of downtown. The ground elevation would need to be subtracted from the allowable building height above mean sea-level allowed of 1,575-1,600 for the Cityscape plots. This would give us the allowable building height for the project.

I could only find average elevations for the city and these varied depending on the site. Anyone have access to a topo site? I found one that wanted $50/year to get access.
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  #59  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2006, 3:13 AM
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I'm trying to find it too and not having much luck. I might drive there sometime this week and see what the navigation unit says.
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  #60  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2006, 3:29 AM
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If you have Google Earth, you can find out the elevation of any specific point just by putting the mouse pointer on it. This area is 1,083' above sea level (and since downtown is so flat, all of it is probably within + or - 10' of that).
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