HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Southwest

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #41  
Old Posted May 8, 2009, 5:19 PM
poconoboy61 poconoboy61 is offline
skyscrapers!
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 233
Is this the same Arizona? This state is cutting funds from the three universities it already has. Why construct another school that will detract even MORE money from the three existing schools? This state is baffling.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #42  
Old Posted May 8, 2009, 5:26 PM
Jsmscaleros's Avatar
Jsmscaleros Jsmscaleros is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by plinko View Post
Strangely enough, I much preferred the south building over the north during the 5 years I spent at ASU's CAED. The north building is a complete disaster in terms of aesthetics and particularly with regard to the public spaces. The building was designed by a firm out of Princeton of all places (I forget the name) and they did really lovely things like creating 'dead square', an outdoor two story volume in the center of the building that has never had any real function. They also were smart enough to provide a lounge for students with indoor and outdoor space. Except that it's on the SOUTH side of the building...and clad in a hideously reflective white tile. You can actually get snowblinded out there.

I don't know, maybe I just really didn't enjoy my time in Architraz enough (and I assure you...the name has everything to do with the design).

Funny story, we actually got severely scolded by the CAED dean for our homecoming float one year. We built a giant jail cell and hung a huge sign on the back that said 'Architraz'...and then rode in the parade. Needless to say, he was not pleased.
Interestingly enough - some graduate arch. students recently designed and constructed a modular furniture piece called "Cool Ground" that takes up most of the space in Dead Square. It's not the hammocks I originally wanted, but now I sleep/read in there all the time... and other people actually use the space.

Amazing the difference one change can make. Now there is a reason to use the space.

My real beef with the North Building is all the sharp, blind corners... not exactly conducive to safely transporting prototypes and models from room to room!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #43  
Old Posted May 8, 2009, 5:37 PM
HooverDam's Avatar
HooverDam HooverDam is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Country Club Park, Greater Coronado, Midtown, Phoenix, Az
Posts: 4,610
Quote:
Originally Posted by poconoboy61 View Post
Is this the same Arizona? This state is cutting funds from the three universities it already has. Why construct another school that will detract even MORE money from the three existing schools? This state is baffling.
The problem right now is ASU and UA have to charge artificially low tuitions so that they educate the masses. You create a new school for those folks, you can up ASU & UAs tuitions and get the money situation all straightened out.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #44  
Old Posted May 8, 2009, 5:54 PM
poconoboy61 poconoboy61 is offline
skyscrapers!
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeyore View Post
I am confused by this title. Do you guys only have 3 four year universities in Arizona now?
There are also 3 two year colleges. Central Arizona College in Coolidge, Arizona Western College in Yuma with centers all over Yuma and La Paz counties, and Eastern Arizona College in Thatcher. There is also a branch of the University of Arizona in Sierra Vista that does have about 5 four-year degree programs.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #45  
Old Posted May 8, 2009, 6:11 PM
poconoboy61 poconoboy61 is offline
skyscrapers!
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by HooverDam View Post
The problem right now is ASU and UA have to charge artificially low tuitions so that they educate the masses. You create a new school for those folks, you can up ASU & UAs tuitions and get the money situation all straightened out.
State schools are supposed to be for the masses. Higher tuition will price lower and middle-income students out of the U of A and ASU. There are many in-state students at both universities who can barely afford tuition now.

Forcing lower-income students into one university will create stratification of students based on economics. This is 2009. That is not a model for higher education that we should be striving for.

Tucson is a large enough city that it needs to maintain an accessible university for people from all income levels. There are students from South Tucson and other disadvantaged communities who can't afford to leave Tucson for school.

In order to fund a new college without raising tuition or imposing even more budget gashes on NAU, ASU, and U of A, the state will need to raise taxes. Unfortunately, we all know how Arizonans feel about taxes.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #46  
Old Posted May 9, 2009, 1:26 AM
Sonoran_Dweller's Avatar
Sonoran_Dweller Sonoran_Dweller is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by combusean View Post
Then there are other buildings like Coor and Computing Commons that rock.
Just to let you know the architect who designed the new UofA College of Architecture and Landscape Architecture building, Eddie Jones, is the same architect who designed Lattie F. Coor Hall.

I'll admit that the photos that I posted are not the best representation of the building, like all architecture you have to see it in person to truly appreciate it; and the new UA CALA building is especially one of them.

Any Tucsonians out there who have seen this building?
__________________
"Be the change you want to see in the world." -Mahatma Gandhi
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #47  
Old Posted May 9, 2009, 1:55 AM
combusean's Avatar
combusean combusean is offline
Skyriser
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Nob Hill, San Francisco, California
Posts: 5,365
I'll eat crow on that one. For what it's worth tho, that picture is awful.

http://www.jonesstudioinc.com/28/index.htm

is much better and really takes the whole thing into account.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #48  
Old Posted May 9, 2009, 2:54 AM
HooverDam's Avatar
HooverDam HooverDam is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Country Club Park, Greater Coronado, Midtown, Phoenix, Az
Posts: 4,610
Quote:
Originally Posted by poconoboy61 View Post
State schools are supposed to be for the masses.
Really? Don't tell that to UCLA and Cal Berkley.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poconoboy61 View Post
Higher tuition will price lower and middle-income students out of the U of A and ASU. There are many in-state students at both universities who can barely afford tuition now.
College is expensive, cry me a river.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poconoboy61 View Post
Forcing lower-income students into one university will create stratification of students based on economics. This is 2009. That is not a model for higher education that we should be striving for.
So instead of people paying a reasonable price for a service, we should artificially hold the price down to benefit a small minority?

I get SO sick of people bitching about the price of college. Do people realize all the financial aid, scholarships, etc that are out there? If you didn't do well enough in High School to earn a scholarship, tough, Im sorry. I went to a school that costs 3 to 4 times as much as the Arizona schools and didn't pay for most of it because I hit the books in High School and worked my ass off looking for scholarships. If you can't do the same, get a wrench, learn to fix a car. College is not some birth right, we ought to quit treating it as such.

Speaking of costs here's some good news: http://www.azcentral.com/community/t...su0508-ON.html
Quote:
Crow: ASU reaches 'calming point' over finances
7 comments May. 8, 2009 05:15 PM
Associated Press
Arizona State University President Michael Crow says money from the federal stimulus program and a new tuition surcharge will provide the Tempe-based university with a financial "calming point."

Crow told university faculty and staff in a video message e-mailed Friday that the additional funding will provide ASU with "sufficient resources to financially stabilization the institution" despite state funding cuts.

He said university officials plan to use the next two years focusing on lower-cost options and on faculty recruitment and retention.

In Crow's words, "while the financial hurricane is far from over, we believe that we are stable moving forward."

Last edited by HooverDam; May 9, 2009 at 3:06 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #49  
Old Posted May 9, 2009, 5:55 AM
combusean's Avatar
combusean combusean is offline
Skyriser
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Nob Hill, San Francisco, California
Posts: 5,365
Bitching about ASU raising tuition ignores the fundamental aspect of the discussion: the 4th university will probably cost the same as the County community colleges which are in the ballpark of $50/credit hr.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #50  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2009, 12:20 PM
combusean's Avatar
combusean combusean is offline
Skyriser
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Nob Hill, San Francisco, California
Posts: 5,365
Cheaper campuses debated
Low-cost university sites would offer only bachelor's degrees
6 comments by Anne Ryman - Jun. 15, 2009 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic

Quote:
Presidents of Arizona's three state universities are proposing opening a fourth, lower-priced campus as soon as next year and four additional, similar campuses by 2020.

All would offer only bachelor's degrees with limited majors. They would offer cheaper in-state tuition than Arizona State University, the University of Arizona and Northern Arizona University.

The presidents, challenged by state politicians to provide students with more affordable options, have drafted a plan that goes before the regents on Thursday. But decisions are likely months away.

Many details need to be worked out, including funding, tuition, possible locations and the academic majors.

Majors could include high-demand areas of study such as teaching and business.

Earlier this year, the possibility of a separate fourth university not connected to the other three was floated by higher-education officials, but that does not appear to be in the plans for now.

The presidents are recommending that the new campuses be operated by an existing university; ASU is the most likely choice.

Incoming Regents President Ernest Calderón called the draft plan a good step and said it was critical that something was started by fall 2010.

"The people of Arizona want great access that is more affordable, and they want it now," he said. "People are hurting for money, and we've got to respond to it."

Adding lower-priced campuses would dramatically change the state university system. The three universities have opened branch campuses in various locations over the years that charge somewhat lower tuition, but the difference isn't dramatic.

The targeted annual tuition at the lower-priced colleges would be an amount always less than the maximum federal Pell Grant amount, which is currently $5,800 a year, said ASU President Michael Crow. Some regents said the tuition could be two-thirds of what is charged at the other universities.

The restructuring comes as state legislators and Gov. Jan Brewer are pushing the universities to come up with something more affordable than the traditional four-year degree at a research university.

In-state tuition and fees rose by up to 54 percent from 2004 to 2008, and are increasing sharply again this fall. New undergraduate students will pay 20 to 24 percent more than in 2008-2009 in tuition and fees: $6,627 at NAU, $6,842 at UA, and $6,840 for new students at ASU's Tempe campus.

Political pressure isn't the only reason the regents are looking to restructure. They also want to encourage more people to get bachelor's degrees. Arizona ranks below the national average in the percentage of adults with at least a four-year degree. Research and the census suggest a more educated workforce translates into higher income, a more diverse tax base and better access to health care.

The draft plan set to go before the regents on Thursday also calls for more partnerships with community colleges. The presidents want to have at least four "partner" campuses with community colleges by 2012. As at other community colleges, freshmen would take their general credits there but also would get joint admission to universities.

"You completely eliminate the issue of transfer," in which students try to earn sufficient credits that will be accepted by four-year universities, NAU President John Haeger said.

By 2020, the presidents want at least one partnership campus with a community college in every Arizona county. They also want four more campuses that offer lower-priced, four-year degrees. Lake Havasu City, Show Low and Goodyear are among the locations interested in hosting a four-year campus.'

ASU is emerging as the most likely school to develop separate campuses.

ASU President Michael Crow said he was working on a plan called "The Colleges @ ASU," which would offer four-year degrees in limited subjects at a lower cost.

The first campus would open in Maricopa County and be modeled after the downtown Phoenix campus, where the city fronted taxpayer money for new university buildings.

In addition, NAU would develop at least one or two "regional universities," possibly through partnerships with community colleges. Prescott Valley and Yuma are potential sites because NAU already has programs there.


Another idea is to develop an "Arizona Public University Center" at which all three universities would offer programs.

Regent Fred DuVal calls the presidents' plans bold and exciting.

One key benefit: Students could move more easily between community colleges and universities, picking courses based on their needs, schedules and cost.

"We're trying to sort of erase the border" between community colleges and universities, he said.

Arizona has few choices when it comes to a public, four-year education.

The state's three universities educate about 122,500 students, but the state has no public regional universities, which offer only four-year degrees and have no research component, which is more costly.

Arizona has a network of community colleges that offer certificates and two-year degrees, and some programs allow students to earn up to three years' worth of credits before transferring to universities. Community colleges don't offer four-year degrees, and efforts to change state law to allow them to do so have been unsuccessful.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #51  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2009, 1:35 PM
HooverDam's Avatar
HooverDam HooverDam is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Country Club Park, Greater Coronado, Midtown, Phoenix, Az
Posts: 4,610
Awesome news!

To me it seems like if youre going to build 4 year schools outside of the Valley that Prescott Valley and Yuma make more sense than Lake Havasu and Show Low. Because of those towns size I feel like more students would be willing to go spend 4 years there.

I wonder what they mean by NAU developing new the regional universities. I hope they wouldn't be "NAU-Prescott Valley" or "NAU-Yuma" but more their own thing like "Southern Arizona U" and "Prescott State U."

Also, if Yuma gets a school their mascot better be "The Fightin' Lettuce."

EDIT: VV No way- Yuma is the lettuce capital of the world or maybe just of America, I forget. If SCC can be the "Artichokes" they can be "The Fightin' Lettuce." I doubt theyd go for it, but Im always for silly sports teams names. I.E. one of my favorites is "The Montgomery Biscuits", look at this sweet logo:

Last edited by HooverDam; Jun 15, 2009 at 2:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #52  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2009, 1:44 PM
TAZ4ate0's Avatar
TAZ4ate0 TAZ4ate0 is offline
High Voltage
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tempe, Arizona (Phoenix)
Posts: 745
LOL - "The Fightin' Lettuce." I'm going out on a limb here and guessing that you are kidding.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #53  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2009, 4:04 PM
vertex's Avatar
vertex vertex is offline
under the influence...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 2,600
A related article from yesterday's Republic, buried in the local news section. Oddly enough it's placement seems to reflect the public's collective pecking order when it comes to post-secondary ed.

However this story shows just how grounded and proactive the Maricopa Community College system is. This is big news, as Dr. Pan has been pretty mum about questions regarding a 4-year degree program at MCC.

Quote:
Area community colleges map changes in trying times

5 comments by Kerry Fehr-Snyder - Jun. 15, 2009 08:19 AM
The Arizona Republic

Community colleges aren't your grandfather's junior colleges but could become your children's four-year degree-granting institutions.

That's because the Maricopa County Community College District is morphing, the heads of two Southeast Valley community colleges said recently.

Blame - or credit - the economy.

"It's a great time for community colleges in the sense of the global economy being in a recession," said Shouan Pan, president of the Valley's largest community college, Mesa Community College.

Workers with pink slips and those worried they'll be next are flocking to community colleges, which are seeing double-digit percentage increases in enrollment.

"We can see the increase finally catching up to us," Pan said.

Unlike the Arizona Board of Regents, which governs the state's three universities, the Maricopa County Community College District's governing board voted this spring not to raise tuition at its 10 community colleges to pay for its growth.

The decision came even as the state Legislature cut the district's funding to cover just 9 percent, or $55 million, of its operating budget. That's down from about 23 percent in 2001.

The majority of its funding, about 60 percent, comes from property taxes, which the board also voted not to raise by 2 percent a year as is allowed.

Student tuition comprises about 26 percent of the district's budget, and the remainder is covered by grants.

Linda Lujan, incoming president of the Chandler-Gilbert Community College, said the district's goal remains making higher education affordable.

Together, Lujan and Pan outlined a series of changes coming to their colleges:

• Capping tuition for MCC students in approved programs who transfer to Arizona State University within three years.

• Establishing a similar program with Northern Arizona University to boost the number of students with teaching, emergency-medical technician and criminal justice degrees.

• Exploring the possibility of a "communiversity" in Queen Creek where CGCC students take university courses on the community college campus.

The changes are part of a goal to graduate more students with bachelor's degrees in Arizona by 2020.

About 18,000 students graduate each year from universities and colleges in the state, but Arizona needs about 36,000 students to meet employer demands.

The perceived shortfall led to the creation of the Governor's P-20 Council to recommend changes that would double the number of bachelor degree graduates over the next 11 years.

The council's 35 recommendations led to ASU president Michael Crow to signing an agreement with MCC to cap tuition for students who transfer to the university and major in one of 17 programs.

Administrators are working to expand the list to 40 programs before the fall semester begins in mid-August.

The Maricopa to ASU Pathways Program, as it's called, effectively treats community college students like university freshmen as soon as they begin taking community college classes.

Tuition for the community college students cannot increase more than 5 percent a year under the program.

"Our goal is to double the rate of transfers to ASU in the next few years," MCC's Pan said.

Community college students who transfer to ASU tend to have higher grade-point averages, Pan said. Community college students also pay less, $71 per credit hour.

The goal is to stop the "brain drain" created when students earn their degrees and move to other states to work.

"Hopefully, they will get a degree, stay here and become a taxpayer," he said.

The third potential change, creating a "communiversity" in Queen Creek, would allow community college students to take university courses on a community college campus.

Lujan said administrators are considering creating a communiversity campus in Queen Creek because it is underserved by higher education.

Queen Creek would donate land for the project and the community college would build the buildings, possibly with some of the $20 million stimulus funding the Maricopa County Community College District expects to receive.

Neither Lujan nor Pan ruled out the possibility of community colleges becoming four-year degree-granting institutions, an old idea that is resurfacing.

But that change is a political hot potato and would require buy-in from the state Legislature, community college districts, the Arizona Board of Regents and others.

"Some legislators are interested in re-starting the conversation," Pan said, emphasizing that he wasn't speaking on behalf of the district's board. "It's do-able because a lot of states have done it."

Lujan added, "As you can imagine, it's a contentious discussion."

In the meantime, MCC and CGCC are trying to elevate their roles as demand for higher education grows.

"It's not about competing with the universities; it's about complementing them," Pan said.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #54  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2009, 5:14 PM
vertex's Avatar
vertex vertex is offline
under the influence...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 2,600
Well, there sure seems to be a lot of dialogue and proposals as of late. Here's another one that has at least some support, and it parallels what CC's like Mesa are already doing with their 'bridge' classes with NAU.

Some say that the BA or BS offered will be watered down, but in fact all of the upper-division classes to be offered at the CC level will be proctored/managed/co-taught by faculty from the university.

Quote:
Plan aims to cut the cost of 4-year degrees
3 years at community college, with final year at a university

20 comments by Anne Ryman - Jun. 19, 2009 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic

FLAGSTAFF - Arizona students wanting a four-year public-university degree have two options: They can enroll at one of the state's three research institutions or attend community college for up to two years and transfer.

But momentum is building for a new alternative.

Ernest Calderón, incoming president of the Arizona Board of Regents, plans to unveil a proposal today that would allow community-college students in select majors to attend one of the big three universities for only their final year.

The change could save students thousands of dollars at a time when university tuition is rising sharply.

It also could encourage more students to work for a bachelor's degree rather than stopping their education after receiving a two-year associate's degree.

Not every academic major would be eligible. If he can sway Arizona State University, University of Arizona and Northern Arizona University to back the plan, it's likely they would start with just a handful of high-demand majors, such as business and education.

"We can do this," said Calderón, who said he believes the universities could have a program in place with three or four community colleges by fall 2010.

The proposal is one of several the Board of Regents will consider over the next several months as it looks for ways to provide Arizona's college students with lower-cost education options.

A hard sell

Calderón's plan is in many ways controversial.

For years, the universities have fought efforts to allow community colleges to grant four-year degrees, saying it would create competition for high enrollment numbers, which could result in less state funding for them.

But the universities and the regents are under increasing pressure from Gov. Jan Brewer and the state Legislature to make the cost of an education more affordable. Tuition at the universities rose as much as 54 percent from 2004 to 2008.New undergraduate students will pay 20 to 24 percent more in tuition and fees than in 2008-09: $6,627 at NAU, $6,842 at UA and $6,840 for new students at ASU's Tempe campus.

As a result, university leaders now seem increasingly receptive to a more generous credit-transfer program, although it's unlikely they would ever support four-year community-college degrees.

Under the proposal, students could earn up to 90 credits at a local community college and then transfer to a state university for the final 30 credits.

Current rules allow students to transfer up to two years' worth of classes, or about 64 credits, although a few programs allow more.

The change could save students an average of $4,000 in just tuition and fees over four years. Community-college tuition is often one-third of what the universities charge.

In order to go forward, Calderón will need the backing of the regents, the community colleges and the universities.

The latter could be a tough sell because the plan would reduce university enrollments and the per-student funding they receive from the state at a time when budgets are already tight.

Calderón did not have any estimates on how much money the universities could lose.

Regardless, it's the right thing to do, he said.

Some community-college leaders seem receptive.

"We're definitely interested," said Rufus Glasper, chancellor of Maricopa Community Colleges, the largest community-college district in the state.

Other advantages

Cheaper tuition for college students isn't the only potential benefit.

Arizona is below the national average in terms the percentage of adults with at least a bachelor's degree. It's 25 percent in Arizona compared with 28 percent nationally.

To change this trend, the universities need to find new ways to encourage students to complete a four-year degree.

Some think a three-year credit-transfer program might help. It has been used in varying degrees in many other states, although it usually applies only to select programs.

"The goal is a bachelor's degree, not an associate's degree," Glasper said. "We're trying to make it as easy as possible."

He added that his college system would have room for students to stay an extra year because it's in the midst of adding 1.6 million additional square feet of space. The expansion was approved during a 2004 capital bond.

ASU President Michael Crow said a lot of details would have to be worked out in any program that would allow students to spend three years at the community-college level.

But, he said, the university supports the idea of finding ways to increase the number of bachelor's degrees awarded to Arizona adults.

"We are looking at every possible way to enhance bachelor's-degree production," he said.

Hurdles and options

Calderón's proposal is far from a done deal.

Even if he is able to garner support, there are many logistics that would need to be worked through.

One of the largest is just who would be responsible for teaching third-year students. Under the plan, the universities would control the curriculum but students would still be taking classes on community-college campuses.

It also is likely that regents will consider and pursue multiple options for lower-priced four-year degrees.

On Thursday, for example, presidents of the three universities presented their previously announced plans for opening a fourth, lower-priced campus as soon as next year and four additional, similar campuses by 2020.

All would offer only bachelor's degrees and would rely on partnerships with cities and community colleges.

Under that plan, the universities would form more partnerships with community colleges, which would allow students to transfer more easily between the two.

"The short and long-term key is the community colleges," NAU President John Haeger said.

NAU has worked for years with Yavapai Community College and plans to set up a new location in Prescott Valley in August where students could earn four-year degrees.

ASU is working on a proposal called the Colleges@ASU, which is envisioned as a group of lower-cost campuses that would operate similar to the university's downtown Phoenix campus, which was funded with voter-approved bond funding.

Regents are expected to discuss any and all possible options for lower-priced degrees over the next several months, with the goal of having proposals ready for public input by December.

The regents will likely face several challenges, no matter which option they choose, including coming up with funding for new staff and operations during a tight budget year, as well as building support and consensus among the state's many community colleges.

Arizona has 10 community-college districts, and each has its own governing board.

"I don't think we'll succeed unless we have a strong relationship with the community colleges," Calderón said to the presidents on Thursday. "Whatever we do, they have to be part of the plan."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #55  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2009, 5:26 PM
HooverDam's Avatar
HooverDam HooverDam is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Country Club Park, Greater Coronado, Midtown, Phoenix, Az
Posts: 4,610
I like this Ernest Calderon fellow, it seems that he's at least making an effort to think outside the box and come up with some new ideas which is pretty shocking behavior for someone involved in ABOR.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #56  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2009, 2:27 PM
poconoboy61 poconoboy61 is offline
skyscrapers!
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by HooverDam View Post
Really? Don't tell that to UCLA and Cal Berkley.
California is just a little bit different than Arizona. Arizona has 3 universities and about 10 colleges. Yet you're comparing that to a state that has HUNDREDS of colleges and universities, many of them public. Laughable.

When a state has an abundance of colleges and universities, some can afford to be more exclusionary. When you have 3 universities, that doesn't quite work. Still, UCLA and UC Berkeley are MUCH cheaper for California residents than any private college/university is.

You forget so quickly that in California's affirmative action days, UCLA and UC Berkeley were required to accept a certain percentage of African-American and Mexican-American students.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HooverDam View Post
College is expensive, cry me a river.
Uh, ok. So because of that, we're supposed to just let thousands of lower and middle-income college students forego higher education? I guess we'll just let those students go without a college education and then hop on welfare, and YOU can support them for the rest of their lives. Good plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HooverDam View Post
So instead of people paying a reasonable price for a service, we should artificially hold the price down to benefit a small minority?
I don't know where you get this idea that low and middle-income students are a "small" minority. You need to open your eyes. In a state with as few universities as Arizona, it is ridiculous to channel lower-income students into one university. There is no need for that. Maybe you came from a house with diamond-studded toilet paper, but most students do not. If you want to push these students aside because of your conservative ideology, prepare for the consequences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HooverDam View Post
I get SO sick of people bitching about the price of college. Do people realize all the financial aid, scholarships, etc that are out there? If you didn't do well enough in High School to earn a scholarship, tough, Im sorry. I went to a school that costs 3 to 4 times as much as the Arizona schools and didn't pay for most of it because I hit the books in High School and worked my ass off looking for scholarships. If you can't do the same, get a wrench, learn to fix a car. College is not some birth right, we ought to quit treating it as such.
Well, you need to get over it. Sorry that people on a tight budget make you sick. Very often, the only way lower and middle-income students make it through college is because of these scholarships and grants. Sometimes, it just isn't enough. Pull your head out of the sand. Our last president, in all his greatness , slashed the maximum financial aid amounts that students could take out.

Many students who can't afford college do pick up a trade. However, we should not exclude people from a college education because of circumstances that are often out of their control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HooverDam View Post
Speaking of costs here's some good news: http://www.azcentral.com/community/t...su0508-ON.html
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #57  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2009, 3:30 PM
Buckeye Native 001 Buckeye Native 001 is offline
is a loser.
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Arizona
Posts: 29,435
Cal Berkeley and UCLA are exclusive, yes, but the nine member UC system has at least one school that accepts anyone with the minimum requirements: UC Merced. Until Merced opened in 2005, UC Riverside was the de-facto "safety school" of the system.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #58  
Old Posted Jul 1, 2009, 6:34 PM
HooverDam's Avatar
HooverDam HooverDam is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Country Club Park, Greater Coronado, Midtown, Phoenix, Az
Posts: 4,610
Poconoboy I'm sorry but you're just flat out wrong. You want more opportunities for lower income students to get higher education, the state comes up with a plan for that, and you're against it. What sense does that make?

Lets change the topic to more clearly illustrate the silliness of your way of thinking. Instead of education lets talk about cars. We could have a system where everyone pretty much gets the same car, like they did in E. Germany. The car will of course be too expensive for the poor, and probably not nice enough for the rich. It'll be in short supply and the cars producer will have a hard time coming up with enough of them- but hey, everyones equal!

Instead of a backwards system like that, wouldnt you rather let ASU and UA become research schools, churning out highly educated graduates that could help lead our state? You've simply made no points about why Arizona can't or shouldn't go to a multitiered system like so many other states have. Is your point that Arizona's current system is acceptable? Because if it is, you're accepting crap.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #59  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2009, 10:44 PM
vertex's Avatar
vertex vertex is offline
under the influence...
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 2,600
On a somewhat-related note:

Quote:
ASU, community colleges' pact aims to ease transfer process
Eligible MCCCD students will get admission perks


by Alex Bloom - Jul. 5, 2009 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic

Maricopa County Community College District students will soon be able to transfer to Arizona State University much more easily, thanks to a partnership between the district and ASU that defines course and degree paths.

Through the Maricopa ASU Pathways Program, community-college students who successfully move through general-education requirements at the community-college level will be guaranteed admission into top ASU programs and receive tuition incentives.

Transfer advisers from both schools have created degree sheets defining required courses for about 30 popular majors, including elementary education, psychology and accounting. Students will be able to sign up for the program this fall.

"We will eventually have these for virtually every major," said Andrea Buehman, director of Maricopa's Center for Curriculum and Transfer Articulation.

The program improves upon the mission of the two schools to "drive student success and make sure that the transition from the two institutions really is as seamless as possible," said David Young, ASU's senior vice president for academic affairs.

Students have three years to complete community-college courses and can receive guaranteed admission to an ASU program if they meet certain requirements such as minimum grade-point average. Community-college students will earn their Arizona General Education Curriculum degrees before transferring and will have junior standing at ASU.

Before the creation of the Maricopa ASU Pathways Program, community-college students transferring to ASU would often have credits that could not transfer toward their degree.

"A lot of students had the number of courses to transfer, but they weren't courses that added up to a program," said Tom Gariepy, Maricopa's director of marketing and communications.

The two schools collaborated, but transferring Maricopa courses to specific ASU degrees, beyond general-education courses, was limited.

"We wanted to expand the transfer relationship so that more students could participate in getting benefits and getting more incentives," Buehman said.

ASU will give Maricopa Community Colleges students the same tuition caps that ASU students receive, holding tuition increases to 5 percent. Merit-based scholarships are being developed for Maricopa ASU Pathways Program students, Young said.

ASU appreciates transferring Maricopa Community Colleges students accounted for 50 percent of ASU degrees awarded in 2006-07.

"It's much better for us to have students who transfer from the community college who are prepared to do well at the university," Young said.

The Maricopa ASU Pathways Program resulted from a memorandum of understanding signed in December between ASU and Maricopa Community Colleges to create a "culture of transfer."

"It's a shift in the intensity of the transfer relations between Maricopa and ASU," Buehman said.

The program will help Arizona boost the number of state residents holding baccalaureate degrees by helping transfer students be more prepared for ASU, according to Daniel Corr, Scottsdale Community College's vice president of academic affairs.

"The community colleges will benefit from our students having that really up-front, very specific pathway that they need to be successful," Corr said.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #60  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2009, 10:21 PM
trigirdbers trigirdbers is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 154
I'm sorry, if you cannot meet the minimum requirements for ASU even if we make U of A into a selective school and it siphons off all the smart kids then college is a waste of time for you. You know, not everybody will benefit from a college education, put enough dumb people in a college and you slow down the high achievers. Besides, if its just pay you are looking for, I've got news for you, the trades pay pretty well. Most of the first year jobs out of college don't pay any more than a plumber makes.

Last edited by trigirdbers; Jul 7, 2009 at 10:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Southwest
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:06 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.