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  #41  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2009, 4:32 PM
Leo the Dog Leo the Dog is offline
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Monsoon T-Storm along the Beeline

Not exactly Northern Arizona, but rural AZ along the beeline. I took these photos on Saturday 8/22/09. Good sized storms, washes were roaring! This was a full rainbow, low cloud deck, absolutely stunning! The desert looks like its doing really good.



I took more photos, but it was from a car going 65mph so they didn't turn out as good as I would've liked.
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  #42  
Old Posted Aug 25, 2009, 4:38 PM
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arizona is beautiful.
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  #43  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2009, 7:59 AM
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uniquely so.
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Stonewall, maybe. But Pumpkinville?!?
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  #44  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2009, 5:15 PM
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http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...flake1011.html
Quote:
Consolidation proposal divides Taylor, Snowflake
32 comments by Dennis Wagner - Oct. 7, 2009 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic
TAYLOR-SNOWFLAKE (or SNOWFLAKE-TAYLOR) - Every Fourth of July, folks in the hamlet of Taylor fill a metal pipe with black powder, stick an ancient anvil on top of the pipe, then light a fuse.

Ker-Blam!

The "Firing of the Anvil" is a prideful tradition in these parts, a blast of heritage that dates to the late 1800s.


Now, plans to merge Taylor with neighboring Snowflake have ignited a different kind of explosion in the sibling communities, one full of family feuds, public name-calling and political turmoil.

The towns' leaders adopted resolutions this summer for a public vote on consolidation in March.

Their theory was that one semibig burg might operate more efficiently and harmoniously than two small rivals. Instead of unity, however, the proposal polarized residents of Taylor who fear their identity, history and political voice will be eclipsed by the slightly larger town to the north.

"We have never gotten a fair shake from Snowflake in anything we've been involved with them in," said Fay Hatch, 55, a Taylor native. "We'll be like the children of the second wife."

The new municipality, if approved, would be the first marriage of incorporated communities in Arizona, a union allowed under a law passed in the 1940s. Pinetop-Lakeside was formed in 1984 when two unincorporated communities joined to create a new municipality.

But leaders in both Snowflake and Taylor agree the outcome is less than a foregone conclusion: Over the decades, at least three other consolidation attempts of the two Mormon-dominated towns, with a combined population of about 9,800, failed before any public vote was held.

"It's never been done before," said Gary Solomon, 70, a Taylor resident who fears his family's legacy will be eclipsed out by a merger.

In August, when Taylor's Town Council considered the latest merger resolution, more than 225 people showed up, forcing a venue change from Town Hall to the firehouse. One protester who demanded a voice was escorted outside by police after Mayor John Cole limited debate to just four speakers, two on each side.

Members of an opposition group, the Taylor Fact Finders Committee, collected more than 750 signatures on a petition opposing the merger, then filed recall petitions against Cole and Councilman Robin Palmer.

The dispute grew so mean-spirited, Taylor Councilman Jordy Fuentes said, that town leaders got hate mail, and a Mormon stake president publicly admonished church members to maintain civility and mutual respect.

Passionate fight

"It's been a bloodbath," Fuentes said. "There is a hatred among some elders so passionate they won't shop in rival communities."

Cole, who resigned as mayor last month because of a job transfer to Phoenix, said efforts to demonize have been disappointing.

"It's an ugly tactic," he said. "It's been an attempt to break me down. . . . And I know these people's backgrounds. They should know how to treat others."

Beverly Kay, who lives in Snowflake, said she was asked by merger opponents to move her businesses out of Taylor after she endorsed the merger. To visitors, she said, the furor must seem downright puzzling.

"They're looking at this Mormon community that is supposed to have all these righteous values, and we're fighting among ourselves," she said.

Legacy of goodwill

At first blush, the mile-high towns seem tranquilly unified along Silver Creek in rolling hills about a three-hour drive from Phoenix.

Both communities are dominated by a rural Mormon culture and connected by Arizona 77, known as Main Street, which features antique streetlamps decorated with American flags and hanging flowerpots.

Snowflake was founded in 1878 by two of the area's early pioneers, Erastus Snow and William Flake, who unselfishly agreed to consolidate their last names. Taylor was established three years later and christened after John Taylor, the third president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

The idea of a merger seemed to cause little consternation among Snowflake folks or younger Taylor residents.

They attend schools together and marry across town limits without controversy. They own homes in one community and work in the other. The two town halls even boast a history of cooperation, sharing a police department, library, recreation director, airport, schools and rodeo grounds.

"In the eyes of everybody else, we're the same place - Snowflake and Taylor," Fuentes said. "We're the same folks on the same dirt."

But some natives, such as 68-year-old Ron Bish, see a distinctive culture in Taylor, a lifestyle under threat.

"What we have in common is we live at the same altitude," Bish said.

'Emotions run high'

Before calling for an election, the town councils appointed an independent committee to study the process and impact of consolidation. The panel concluded that a merger could reduce municipal costs, enhance unity and inspire economic development.

Tom Belshe, deputy director for the League of Arizona Cities and Towns, who helped prepare the report, estimates that the communities could save $400,000 to $2 million each year by eliminating duplicated jobs and equipment.

"It makes a lot of economic sense," Belshe said. "But change is very difficult. Emotions run high. . . . From an outsider's perspective, these are two homogenous communities. But they don't see it that way."

Passions run hottest over a prospective name for the new town. In a March election, voters will be asked not only whether consolidation should occur but also what the new town should be called.

Ballots will offer two choices: Snowflake-Taylor or Taylor-Snowflake.

Members of the Fact Finders Committee admit to a historic inferiority complex. They are slightly outnumbered. The local high school is already named for Snowflake. And they are certain that Snowflake will win the naming contest, making Taylor second fiddle.

"Just one more slap in the face," Hatch groused.

Beyond pride, however, opponents say there are practical reasons to oppose a merger. Fliers circulated by the Fact Finders Committee challenge the projected cost savings and question Snowflake's financial status.

"I said, 'Where's your business plan?' " Bish said. "They don't have one. They were selling us pretty much empty rhetoric."

Belshe said it is impossible to produce a specific economic plan for consolidation because the new town council would have to decide when, where and how much streamlining should be done.

Still, merger foes put out reports suggesting that Taylor residents will wind up subsidizing the bigger town. Kay, the business owner, said she researched those claims thoroughly "and disproved every single one of them."

So, the arguments continue. In the end, die-hard opponents acknowledge that the feud is rooted in a sense of heritage. Some just can't stomach the idea of living, or dying, in a place known by any name other than Taylor.

"My great-grandparents, grandparents and parents are all over in that cemetery," said former Councilman Eddie Hancock, nodding toward the local graveyard.

"And that's where I plan to be buried."
Quote:
How consolidation works

Under Arizona law, two municipalities may merge if they have a common boundary, are located in one county and have a combined population of less than 150,000.

Town councils adopt resolutions asking the board of supervisors to hold an election within 180 days in which voters approve or reject a merger. Unification must be approved by a majority of ballots cast in each town. Voters also choose a name for the new town from a list of up to four possibilities.

Once consolidation is adopted, the old municipal governments cease to exist. The new town assumes their debts, obligations and assets. County supervisors appoint seven council members, who select a mayor from their number.

Ordinances from the former towns remain in effect, with those of the larger community prevailing where conflicts exist.
Sources: Arizona Revised Statutes, League of Arizona Cities and Towns report
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  #45  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2010, 6:00 AM
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Im not sure if this should go here or in the Phx thread, Sean feel free to move it if need be

http://www.azcentral.com/news/electi...le0107-ON.html
Quote:
State buildings to go on market next week
31 comments by Mary Jo Pitzl - Jan. 6, 2010 06:02 PM
The Arizona Republic
Arizona's state buildings will go on the market next week, as state officials look to raise $735 million to boost the state's depleted coffers.

The offer, which includes the state Coliseum, prisons, the headquarters of the Department of Public Safety and legislative buildings, will go on the market Tuesday and Wednesday, said Alan Ecker, a spokesman for the state Department of Administration.

Investors can buy certificates of participation in the buildings in $5,000 increments by working through the state's underwriters, Morgan Stanley and Citi. Ecker said the certificates, which are tax exempt, will likely carry an interest rate of 4 to 5 percent.

State officials say they're confident they can sell certificates for all of the buildings involved, based on the queries they received since the sale-leaseback was announced.

However, Ecker said there's no push to complete the entire sale-leaseback next week. If market conditions look favorable farther down the road, some of the sale may be delayed, he said.
I didnt realize the Coliseum was going to be included in this deal, that kinda makes me nervous. I really love that freakin' building and am so glad we didnt tear it down like everything else in this town. Handing it over to private developers puts it on slightly less safe ground I imagine. Hopefully if anyone does buy it they'll not even think about knocking it down but instead put it to use.
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  #46  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2010, 2:53 PM
Leo the Dog Leo the Dog is offline
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Originally Posted by HooverDam View Post
Im not sure if this should go here or in the Phx thread, Sean feel free to move it if need be

http://www.azcentral.com/news/electi...le0107-ON.html


I didnt realize the Coliseum was going to be included in this deal, that kinda makes me nervous. I really love that freakin' building and am so glad we didnt tear it down like everything else in this town. Handing it over to private developers puts it on slightly less safe ground I imagine. Hopefully if anyone does buy it they'll not even think about knocking it down but instead put it to use.
I'm sure one day it will be replaced by something. It takes up too much valuable Central Phx real estate and really doesn't have much of a function anymore besides hosting the state fair, and other small trade shows, which to be honest, isn't saying much.
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  #47  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2010, 4:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Leo the Dog View Post
I'm sure one day it will be replaced by something. It takes up too much valuable Central Phx real estate and really doesn't have much of a function anymore besides hosting the state fair, and other small trade shows, which to be honest, isn't saying much.
Adaptive reuse. That building is too historically, architecturally and culturally significant to be torn down.

Last edited by HooverDam; Jan 7, 2010 at 5:11 PM.
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  #48  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2010, 4:28 PM
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I don't think land around that area is too valuable.. it's actually pretty damn ghetto. I sure hope they never tear the coliseum down.
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  #49  
Old Posted Jan 7, 2010, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthScottsdale View Post
I don't think land around that area is too valuable.. it's actually pretty damn ghetto. I sure hope they never tear the coliseum down.
Hardly. Large golf course to the north. Encanto Park/Encanto neighborhood immediately to the north/east of the site. It is very elegant, beautiful, well kept, lush mature landscaping, close to CBD-Midtown...an absolute gem of a neighborhood in Central Phx.
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  #50  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2010, 1:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Leo the Dog View Post
Hardly. Large golf course to the north. Encanto Park/Encanto neighborhood immediately to the north/east of the site. It is very elegant, beautiful, well kept, lush mature landscaping, close to CBD-Midtown...an absolute gem of a neighborhood in Central Phx.
We've had this conversation before. West of 19th Ave and South of McDowell is pretty crappy. North of the fairgrounds is terrific. East of the fairground to 15th Ave (especially south of Palm) can be a little hit or miss (though Id still live there in a second) and East of 15th Ave is one of the nicest areas in the state.

Either way, lets hope the Coliseum stands for a long time and finds a use. I was reading recently about how the old LA Forum is now being used as a sanctuary for a mega church, that wouldn't be a half bad use for the Coliseum in the short run.
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  #51  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2010, 2:54 PM
Leo the Dog Leo the Dog is offline
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We've had this conversation before. West of 19th Ave and South of McDowell is pretty crappy. North of the fairgrounds is terrific. East of the fairground to 15th Ave (especially south of Palm) can be a little hit or miss (though Id still live there in a second) and East of 15th Ave is one of the nicest areas in the state.

Either way, lets hope the Coliseum stands for a long time and finds a use. I was reading recently about how the old LA Forum is now being used as a sanctuary for a mega church, that wouldn't be a half bad use for the Coliseum in the short run.
Sounds like the fair grounds are the perfect site for re-development then. It could be the catalyst for urban renewal for the neighborhoods west of 19th ave and south of McD. Currently the site stands blighted.
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  #52  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2010, 8:01 AM
Buckeye Native 001 Buckeye Native 001 is online now
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Have any of you been in the Coliseum lately? I was there in January 2008 after a rain storm and it was musty. The place is in desperate need of renovations.
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  #53  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2010, 8:19 AM
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Have any of you been in the Coliseum lately? I was there in January 2008 after a rain storm and it was musty. The place is in desperate need of renovations.
I was there in October for the fair. Its musty and needs renovations but its in good shape all things considered. Remember it hasn't had a permanent tenant in 18 years or whatever. Its still got a lot of the old awesome Paul Coze murals in it and looks pretty OK all around.
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  #54  
Old Posted Jan 11, 2010, 2:38 PM
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Well, knowing Phoenix's urban development history, who are we kidding by thinking something cool (TOD, pedestrian streets, shops, cafes, row houses) would ever be built on the fair grounds. If they ever do redevelop it, its probably gonna be a Wal-Mart, Home Depot, big box bs, strip mall with pathetic desert landscaping that goes against the character of the established neighborhoods.

Maybe it is better to leave the coliseum as is.
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  #55  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2010, 7:36 AM
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Originally Posted by HooverDam View Post
I was there in October for the fair. Its musty and needs renovations but its in good shape all things considered. Remember it hasn't had a permanent tenant in 18 years or whatever. Its still got a lot of the old awesome Paul Coze murals in it and looks pretty OK all around.
The Coze murals are neat, but it would benefit from a little TLC (something neither the city nor state have money for right now). Then again, we're spoiled with U.S. Airways, Jobing.com, UofP and Chase all being relatively new...
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  #56  
Old Posted Jan 12, 2010, 7:45 AM
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The Coze murals are neat, but it would benefit from a little TLC (something neither the city nor state have money for right now). Then again, we're spoiled with U.S. Airways, Jobing.com, UofP and Chase all being relatively new...
Indeed, I mean, compare it to other buildings its age its in pretty OK shape. Especially considering its 2 decade lack of a permanent tenant. Ive proposed the idea of turning the South End of the Fair grounds into a liberal art college for some time (I know theres no $ for that at the moment) and they could use it as their arena, graduation space, sub divide it into lecture halls perhaps, concerts, etc.
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  #57  
Old Posted Jan 13, 2010, 8:38 PM
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I agree the coliseum is too significant to tear down. Adding new real estate won't revitalize the area south of the grounds any more than using the coliseum as an event center would. What I would propose would be turning the building into an event center to host concerts and conventions. Renovate the place to make it desirable for high profile events. I know we have event centers in phx, but we dont have many great places that can host 10,000 people. Anything east of Glendale big enough to seat 10,000 indoors doesn't have very good sound equipment. Just an idea.
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  #58  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2010, 2:54 AM
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I'd go so far as to argue that certain facilities in Glendale don't have decent sound equipment. Anyone here been to a concert at Jobing.com? Acoustics there are terrible.

Great hockey venue, ironic considering the state of the Yotes.
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  #59  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2010, 2:59 AM
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ironic considering the state of the Yotes.
They're doing alright actually:


EDIT: VV Well theyre staying in AZ, so all thats been more or less sorted out from my understanding (though admittedly I dont follow the Coyotes nearly as close as I do the Suns, D'backs, Cardinals or ASU).

Last edited by HooverDam; Jan 21, 2010 at 4:05 AM.
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  #60  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2010, 3:06 AM
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He probably didnt mean record wise
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